[adias]

Is it mentioned earlier I think the forward positioned sound stage-may be mistaken for liveliness/‘agression’.
With some speakers, this might be exasperated.
But usually this can be corrected with more space between the listening position and the speakers.
Headphones-I guess you'd have to try a different pair?
The BF2OG moves the sound stage back.
I use my MMB2 with Mojo modded AMT3s
They are spacious but a bit forward.
I don’t have any issues and enjoy it very much.
Have not tried it with my Infinities, which are very similar, sounding soundstage wise to Magnepans.
Either way, it doesn’t seem like a non-starter to me.

I have large Maggies in one system and in another system Klipsch horn speakers. MMB2 forward? No. Those observations have to do with components that are not matching well or in the case of speakers, position issues.

Compared to Schiit's top tier Yggy+ OG, the MMB2 soundstage, in all my observations, is narrower and shallower. The Yggy, with good recordings, has a more expansive and realistic soundstage. Just my experience.

 

[mlsstl]

I'm not sure why Schiit is the only one that makes this, is it just too much cost/time to make and not profitable enough at the $300 price point?

I really hope other companies makes more small / cheap single ended multibit / R2R dacs.

I suspect a couple of issue are at work in the relative lack of inexpensive multibit DACs. First, delta-sigma chips that give "good numbers" are just so dang cheap. I suspect that a competent multibit DAC requires a lot more design work to get right -- not every DAC maker has Mike Moffat at their disposal. Second, there is the market -- historically multibit/R2R buyers consider themselves "audiophiles" and are inherently snobbish that anything inexpensive can be good. Throw on to that the fact many consumers have no clue as to what the difference is between a DS and R2R DAC. And then you have the issue that R2R specs often don't look as impressive as the DS numbers regardless of sound quality.

So, add that all together -- harder to design right, more expensive to make, a relatively small number of buyers that understand the differences and many buyers who are impressed by specs. That leaves you with the money guys in the corporation asking, "tell me again why you want to do this?"

 

[Hyde00]

Why?!? The conversion is aggressive? In what sense?

Sorry guess I didn't word it properly. I didn't mean the sound is aggressive, I meant the implementation is aggressive.

As in, if you flip between NOS and OS mode, you'll notice the sound change A LOT. Some other DAC when you flip between NOS and OS you'll hardly notice any difference at all. Because the implementation is very gentle.

But the mega combo burrito filter you get more treble and more bass and a lot more forward vocal. While I actually didn't mind, but I just wish we were given an option of a middle ground.

Like for example if I were to say between MMB2 NOS (non oversample) and MMB2 OS (8x oversample), I think MMB1 (4x oversample) would be more like the middle ground sound.

Though I might be over simplifying this, but you get the idea lol.

EDIT: But yes I would also agree there might be other factors that changes how I perceive sound. Headphone vs speaker vs Coax vs Optical vs USB...... etc etc etc.

I suppose they could’ve made the MMB2 to sound more like the BF2OG.
But I think they were trying to widen the appeal of it with this particular sound staging would be my guess.

Yeah basically this, it's like MMB2 and Bifrost 2/64 seems to be pushing more towards the technical side.

Where I find NOS sounded a bit on the fuzzier but warmer side.

If I were to use an analogy loosely (emphasize on loosely) is that the MMB2 to me sounded a bit more like electric guitar where it's pin point and sharp and precise, where as MMB1 is a bit like acoustic guitar where it's less precise but a bit organic sounding.

I suspect a couple of issue are at work in the relative lack of inexpensive multibit DACs. First, delta-sigma chips that give "good numbers" are just so dang cheap. I suspect that a competent multibit DAC requires a lot more design work to get right -- not every DAC maker has Mike Moffat at their disposal. Second, there is the market -- historically multibit/R2R buyers consider themselves "audiophiles" and are inherently snobbish that anything inexpensive can be good. Throw on to that the fact many consumers have no clue as to what the difference is between a DS and R2R DAC. And then you have the issue that R2R specs often don't look as impressive as the DS numbers regardless of sound quality.

So, add that all together -- harder to design right, more expensive to make, a relatively small number of buyers that understand the differences and many buyers who are impressed by specs. That leaves you with the money guys in the corporation asking, "tell me again why you want to do this?"

Ah it makes sense, I guess it's a hard sell for the big boss eh?

It's like the average Joe go for the Modi+ (because measure better and cheaper) and and audiophile go for the Bifrost 2/64 (because all the cool dudes go balanced LOL).

I guess Modi Multibit is the awkward middle child where it appeals to neither? (except the small group of people like us? )

 

[mlsstl]

I guess Modi Multibit is the awkward middle child where it appeals to neither? (except the small group of people like us? )

I think there is a solid market for the MM2 for a company like Schiit, which has the design talent and capabilities to build it correctly, but doesn't need to sell iPhone quantities of a product, along with owners who have enough passion about their work to try things that might not make sense to a company focused only on the bottom line. The big test for the MM2 will be if it stays in the lineup, or eventually goes by the wayside as some of their other items have over the years.

 

[HWB3]

Schiit is making good sounding equipment for those of us on a budget and that their strong point. Kudos to them and I have six of their products. Love them. Look at my avatar. I also have a Heresy as a preamp and Modi 3+ in my speaker set up.

 

[adias]

Sorry guess I didn't word it properly. I didn't mean the sound is aggressive, I meant the implementation is aggressive.

As in, if you flip between NOS and OS mode, you'll notice the sound change A LOT. Some other DAC when you flip between NOS and OS you'll hardly notice any difference at all. Because the implementation is very gentle.

But the mega combo burrito filter you get more treble and more bass and a lot more forward vocal. While I actually didn't mind, but I just wish we were given an option of a middle ground.

Like for example if I were to say between MMB2 NOS (non oversample) and MMB2 OS (8x oversample), I think MMB1 (4x oversample) would be more like the middle ground sound.

Though I might be over simplifying this, but you get the idea lol.

If you want a different sound flavor... use NOS but feeding NOS with a filtered/oversampled recipe of your choice. Several programs such as Audirvana and JRiver do that for you, running in Windows or MacOS.

NOS, as the name indicates, is baseband sampling - the kind of conversion the original CD players offered in the mid '80s. IMHO no one should listen to a Schiit DAC directly in NOS mode, unless they input their own filtered data as I suggested above; that's what NOS is for.

MMB2 is a mid tier Schiit DAC and a very good one. Schiit does not make bad DACs, even their $129 Modi+ DAC is quite good.

 

[mlsstl]

Schiit is making good sounding equipment for those of us on a budget and that their strong point. Kudos to them and I have six of their products. Love them. Look at my avatar. I also have a Heresy as a preamp and Modi 3+ in my speaker set up.

I agree -- I currently have 8 of their pieces and have owned other items that I've sold. From a sound quality standpoint, they are my favorite. I want great sound, not trophy pieces or bragging rights.

 

[Menkau-ra]

Is there a NOS mode in Multibit DAC cards? Or it’s only available in MM2?

 

[HWB3]

I agree -- I currently have 8 of their pieces and have owned other items that I've sold. From a sound quality standpoint, they are my favorite. I want great sound, not trophy pieces or bragging rights.

Right on!

 

[Hyde00]

If you want a different sound flavor... use NOS but feeding NOS with a filtered/oversampled recipe of your choice. Several programs such as Audirvana and JRiver do that for you, running in Windows or MacOS.

Ah I forgot to test that. But good point!

Is there a NOS mode in Multibit DAC cards? Or it’s only available in MM2?

Since to activate NOS mode you have to press and hold the input selection button for 3 ~ 5 seconds, I believe it's physically impossible to do it in the DAC Card..... lol.

But I could be wrong lol.

 

[automojo]

I have large Maggies in one system and in another system Klipsch horn speakers. MMB2 forward? No. Those observations have to do with components that are not matching well or in the case of speakers, position issues.

Compared to Schiit's top tier Yggy+ OG, the MMB2 soundstage, in all my observations, is narrower and shallower. The Yggy, with good recordings, has a more expansive and realistic soundstage. Just my experience.

Narrow shallower.
A more foward soundstage
A soundstage that’s positioned forward…
Whatever you wanna call it…I was basically saying the same thing…
I don’t mean forward in your face like someone yelling at you 2 inches away etc.
I think you have to read the body of my post , as its implied.
But yes, in the future narrower, shallow, or would be a better descriptor
Thanks
FIY… I’ve had experience with all of these MB- except BF2/64..YGGY just a OG.
I get the more precise/ realistic (realistic debatable to some extent) of the YGGY.
I moved my down the road after I tried a BF2 OG.
Call me crazy, but to me the BF2 OG analog sounding, and a better fit.
Easy listening easy to hear all the detail- like an old friend so to speak.
Rare in audio IMHO
Well broken in AT/120E comes to mind.
Or..a copy of say Rubber Soul on reel…
But I love the convince and massive variety of digital sources…

Just getting back to descriptors, I think that’s part of the problem.
Like the bright description.
When I read many of the threads using this, I get what they’re talking about.
And it’s not really bright like a blaring hf horn , simbalnce.
But to some the gloss over at or speed read and it comes off the wrong way so they get hesitant.
Pretty soon it becomes the body of the whole thread before you know it
But agreed forward was a bad choice.

 

[artur9]

... and audiophile go for the Bifrost 2/64 (because all the cool dudes go balanced LOL). ...

I take slight exception to this because I prefer balanced. One, I've never been the cool dude ;-( and, two, balanced connectors with proper CMNR circuitry (not necessarily balanced throughout) helps with ground noise loops and other sources of noise. On this latter point, I don't need those little cable elevators :-D

 

[automojo]

Sorry guess I didn't word it properly. I didn't mean the sound is aggressive, I meant the implementation is aggressive.

As in, if you flip between NOS and OS mode, you'll notice the sound change A LOT. Some other DAC when you flip between NOS and OS you'll hardly notice any difference at all. Because the implementation is very gentle.

But the mega combo burrito filter you get more treble and more bass and a lot more forward vocal. While I actually didn't mind, but I just wish we were given an option of a middle ground.

Like for example if I were to say between MMB2 NOS (non oversample) and MMB2 OS (8x oversample), I think MMB1 (4x oversample) would be more like the middle ground sound.

Though I might be over simplifying this, but you get the idea lol.

EDIT: But yes I would also agree there might be other factors that changes how I perceive sound. Headphone vs speaker vs Coax vs Optical vs USB...... etc etc etc.

Yeah basically this, it's like MMB2 and Bifrost 2/64 seems to be pushing more towards the technical side.

Where I find NOS sounded a bit on the fuzzier but warmer side.

If I were to use an analogy loosely (emphasize on loosely) is that the MMB2 to me sounded a bit more like electric guitar where it's pin point and sharp and precise, where as MMB1 is a bit like acoustic guitar where it's less precise but a bit organic sounding.

Ah it makes sense, I guess it's a hard sell for the big boss eh?

It's like the average Joe go for the Modi+ (because measure better and cheaper) and and audiophile go for the Bifrost 2/64 (because all the cool dudes go balanced LOL).

I guess Modi Multibit is the awkward middle child where it appeals to neither? (except the small group of people like us? )

Ha!
I got the same reaction with “foward”!!
Yep I think I’m an awkward Schiit DAC consumer.
I prefer the BF2OG and the lil MMB2 over the others.
Well the only YGGY I had was a OG.
But after some thought
If I had to choose between the two .. I’d pick the BF2OG… not that that matters because I don’t have to do that!!!
When the BF2OG came around and I plugged one into my system, I recall writing a post either here or somewhere else AK- this was the MB DAC I was waiting for Schiit to build.

 

[automojo]

Plus, as an added bonus with the YGGY going away… I didn’t have to deal with the wife for kids always turning it off.
The currents are fine after a few.
Although I still think after a few hours they’re at the peak

 

[JAnonymous5150]

Plus, as an added bonus with the YGGY going away… I didn’t have to deal with the wife for kids always turning it off.
The currents are fine after a few.
Although I still think after a few hours they’re at the peak

LOL I have this problem with my wife all the time. She forgets that the Yggy needs to be left on and I come home ready for a nice listening sesh only to find that the Yggy has been flatline since the night before. She's been getting better about it as she's gotten more used to having it connected to that particular computer/listening station, but it still happens.