Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up

[Paladin79]

Great info. I didn't know that Sumiko and Hana were made by the same parent company. I have the AT-VM95 MM cart right now, and typically use it with the microlinear stylus, but I also have the Shibata stylus that seems to pair best with classical records, particularly well-recorded ones. I do like how easy it is to swap styli (styluses?). I will look at the 540/740 line and certainly take a look at what might be coming out from them this summer. Thanks!

That seems to be the critical factor. I'll learn all I can about it. I know you love and recommend the Hana MC carts with Stjärna with your turntable. Doing some reading this morning before logging onto for work and I found a nice summary on Audio-Technica's website. https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/support/audio-solutions-question-of-the-week-how-do-i-match-a-phono-cartridge-to-my-turntable#:~:text=Some cartridge manufacturers, including Audio,to compliance at 10 Hz.

Effective mass of the Sol's tonearm is 13.0 grams, which I believe puts it at the lower end of what would be considered a medium mass tonearm, I think...?


Oh man, so I haven't been the only one lost in the vinyl cartridge wilderness. Thanks for sharing your journey. Happy you've found your end game setup. I'm quite content with the Sol, even though it's a fiddly thing and unconventional, but it sounds great even with an entry MM cartridge and punches far above its weight. That's a fantastic turntable you have!

ALL:
Thanks everyone for chiming in and setting me on the right research path. You're the best. Besides enjoying the lighthearted fun on this thread (well, from everyone except @Ripper2860 of course ), this kind of knowledge and experience sharing is invaluable. Not sure where I'll end up--with an upgraded MM or MC (if I can find something compliant)--but I can see I have an interesting journey ahead of me. There are a couple different turntable shops in the Twin Cities, so I hope I can get a chance to listen and compare cartridges myself this summer.

Happy Friday all!

Edit: @bcowen Just saw your message and link. Thank you. Looks like an excellent resource!

Some specific info:
“For a 13-gram tonearm, you'll want a moving coil (MC) cartridge with a medium compliance. This means the cartridge should have a compliance value between 10 and 20 µm/mN. Here are some recommended MC cartridges that are well-suited for a 13-gram tonearm:
Mid-Range Options:
Ortofon Quintet Blue:
This cartridge offers a good balance of performance and affordability. It's known for its agile, dynamic, and precise sound, making it a great option for enthusiasts.
Hana SL:
The Hana SL is a popular choice for those looking for an excellent entry-level MC cartridge. A thread on Audiogon discusses the Hana SL as a great option.
Benz Ace:
This cartridge is another popular choice for those looking for an excellent entry-level MC cartridge.
Higher-End Options:
Vertere Acoustics Mystic:
If you're looking for a more premium experience, the Vertere Acoustics Mystic cartridge offers a warm and detailed sound with excellent tracking abilities.
Luxman LMC-5:
This cartridge is known for its exceptional build quality and detailed sound reproduction.
Hana Umami Red:
If you're looking for a more premium experience, the Hana Umami Red cartridge offers a warm and detailed sound with excellent tracking abilities.
Factors to Consider:
Compliance:
Match the cartridge's compliance to the tonearm's effective mass. A cartridge with a medium compliance (10 to 20 µm/mN) is generally best suited for a 13-gram tonearm.
Output Voltage:
MC cartridges typically have lower output voltages than moving magnet (MM) cartridges. Make sure your phono stage is compatible with the cartridge's output voltage.
Impedance:
The impedance of the cartridge should match the impedance of your phono stage for optimal performance.
Price:
MC cartridges can range in price from affordable to very expensive. Consider your budget when making your decision.
Sound Signature:
MC cartridges are known for their detailed and dynamic sound, but individual cartridges may have slightly different sound signatures.
By carefully considering these factors, you can choose an MC cartridge that is perfectly matched to your 13-gram tonearm and your listening preferences.“

Depending on how much you want to spend, I really like the Hana Umami Red or you can go more entry level like the SL or Ortofon for a lower price. $565 roughly to $3950 is a big jump.

 

[docBliny]

Heads-up: Several new 2025 jazz remasters in this week's Qobuz new albums, including Walkin' (Miles Davis All Stars) and Side by Side (Duke Ellington & Johnny Hodges). Could be more but work needs focus.

 

[ArmchairPhilosopher]

And now for something completely different:

 

[DACattack]

@Paladin79 Fantastic info, Tom, and a very useful summary. Thanks a bunch! Glancing at MC cart prices this morning, and, yeah, you can fall off a fiscal cliff very rapidly. I'm feeling a little better already about getting something together later this summer. In the end we'll see if my rather clumsy fingers are truly up to the task.

 

[corndog71]

Ok, long, slow question.

One of the things I have always wished Schiit provided is non-volume controlled outputs in their preamp products. I am putting together an "upstairs" system using the Modius/Midgard form factor and product range. Price is right. Have the need for several analog inputs, so need the new Saga 2, which again, is perfect for what i am trying to do. So pls, don't think I am putting the Schiit down.

BUT to do what I want to do, which is using: 1) An active subwoofer with only an RCA single ended input, 2) Passive speakers and 3) A Midgard headphone amp. Had to give it a thunk. So, came up with the following:

• Modius SE OUT to Saga 2 SE IN 1
• Vali, DSD DAC and SACD player SE OUTs to Saga 2 SE IN 2,3,4
• Saga 2 Balanced OUT to Midgard Balanced IN, select Midgard Balanced IN permanently.
• Midgard SE OUT to active subwoofer SE IN
• Midgard Balanced OUT to Gjallarhorn Balanced IN
• Gjallarhorn speaker outs to... speakers.
• Obviously headphone OUT on Midgard, turn off Gjallarhorn and Active Subwoofer if only listening on headphones.

I have 3 questions

1. Combination depending on needs and availability of SE and Balanced OUTs and INs - is that OK? Will conversion happen in the connects described above?
   
   
2. Feels convoluted. Is this right? IT FEELS REALLY WEIRD to have to make the Midgard that path to amplification rather than the Saga 2. But that is the only way that I could work out to have both the active SE subwoofer, speaker amp and the headphone amplifier without splitters or worse, trying to insert SYS, ALL controlled by a SINGLE volume knob. If I don't want speakers, will turn off the Gjallarhorn and the active subwoofer. Does this makes sense?
   
   
3. Assuming this is fine, there is again the question of volume control. How to do it?
   - My intuition tells me to have the Saga 2 all the way up all the time and always control the volume from the Midgard, no matter how great the relay volume control on the Saga 2 is unfortunately. Feels like a waste but, read below.
   - This is, as opposed to turning the Midgard all the way up and control the volume from the Saga 2 WHEN USING SPEAKERS and vice versa, turning the Saga 2 all the way up and controlling from Midgard, when using headphones.
   - While I might be taking advantage of the Saga 2 sophisticated volume control, if feels like a disaster waiting to happen. Could blow my speakers or headphones if I lose track of what is controlling what and whether is all the way up or not.

Does this make sense ? Should it work? Although I am complaining about lack of non volumed controlled outputs, I am grateful for the Modius/Midgard and similar line. All of them provide both SE and Balanced INs AND OUTs. This would be even harder with the older Schiit I got downstairs.

If this OK, inserting a Lokius before the Midgard will give me all over EQ (speakers and headphones). IF I decide to do it, should be easy. No to mention getting an extra Gjallarhorn if I wanted to do the monoblock thing. Should be easy too. Hope this is OK, because I like it.

Thanks in advance for your help and I apologize for the long post. Hopefully that won't keep you from chiming in.

I would plug your 3 sources into Saga 2.
From Saga 2 you have 2 outputs.
Balanced to Midgard or directly to Ghorns or through Midgard to Ghorns.
RCA out to Vali 3 or directly to subwoofer. You could use RCA splitters here to connect both.

Saga should be your main volume control. Turn Midgard and Vali 3 volumes all of the way up.

You may be trying to do too much but it should work.

 

[bagwell359]

One never forgets one’s first Koetsu Rosewood, amiright?

Fidelity Research FR-1 3F, Madrigal Carnegie, Lyra Parnassus, Shelter 501 and 501-2, Denon 103, Koetsu Rosewood & Rosewood Sig

There were some bummers I didn't own - the original Dynavector Ruby & Mavrovskis 1 among them

 

[misterpumpy]

Why is V3 more expensive? This is why:



https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/2010?amount=350

Oh yeah, and it's $14 less than that, for a much more capable amp with an impedance multiplier, low gain, no feedback mode, much better looking, etc.

maybe I am wrong, but I didn't even blink at the idea of a 500 dollar Valhalla 3. I expected it, partly because you told me that at canjam Dallas IIRC, and partly because inflation and part cost increases I truly just assumed 500 was the price. Whenever you do another Asgard (should you ever do one), I expect it to cost more than Asgard 3 did, even at its highest of 279. Just the times we live in.

 

[WeepingGuitar]

Stjarna deserves an MC.

Just trying to be consistent helping you spend money.

Just like my MC deserves Stjarna. My piggy bank's gonna take a hit.

 

[Orange5o]

I have memories of endlessly fiddling and print out templates and wondering why nothing ever lined up exactly.

When I got my P6 I switched to Rega's carts so I don't have to even think about it (3 point fixing ftw). Started with Exact, now Ania Pro, next will be Apheta. There's enough fiddling with everything else, I'm good on worrying about alignment endlessly.

 

[KlausInDK]

Great info. I didn't know that Sumiko and Hana were made by the same parent company. I have the AT-VM95 MM cart right now, and typically use it with the microlinear stylus, but I also have the Shibata stylus that seems to pair best with classical records, particularly well-recorded ones. I do like how easy it is to swap styli (styluses?). I will look at the 540/740 line and certainly take a look at what might be coming out from them this summer. Thanks!

That seems to be the critical factor. I'll learn all I can about it. I know you love and recommend the Hana MC carts with Stjärna with your turntable. Doing some reading this morning before logging onto for work and I found a nice summary on Audio-Technica's website. https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/support/audio-solutions-question-of-the-week-how-do-i-match-a-phono-cartridge-to-my-turntable#:~:text=Some cartridge manufacturers, including Audio,to compliance at 10 Hz.

Effective mass of the Sol's tonearm is 13.0 grams, which I believe puts it at the lower end of what would be considered a medium mass tonearm, I think...?


Oh man, so I haven't been the only one lost in the vinyl cartridge wilderness. Thanks for sharing your journey. Happy you've found your end game setup. I'm quite content with the Sol, even though it's a fiddly thing and unconventional, but it sounds great even with an entry MM cartridge and punches far above its weight. That's a fantastic turntable you have!

ALL:
Thanks everyone for chiming in and setting me on the right research path. You're the best. Besides enjoying the lighthearted fun on this thread (well, from everyone except @Ripper2860 of course ), this kind of knowledge and experience sharing is invaluable. Not sure where I'll end up--with an upgraded MM or MC (if I can find something compliant)--but I can see I have an interesting journey ahead of me. There are a couple different turntable shops in the Twin Cities, so I hope I can get a chance to listen and compare cartridges myself this summer.

Happy Friday all!

Edit: @bcowen Just saw your message and link. Thank you. Looks like an excellent resource!

A single question to the calculation of to arm resonance: some companies - like Audiotechnica - rate cartridge compliance in “cu” (..* 10 to -6 cm/dyne) others - like Ortofon - rate it in uM/mN. How to convert between those two systems of unit?

An experience - my AT-OC9XML (LOMC at a weight of 7,6g and dynamic compliance 16 cu at 100 Hzj behaves very well in the carbon fiber/alu tonearm (effective mass 13,5g) of my Pro-Jext X2 TT.

—————————
edit: with a little search I found that 1 dyne = 10 to -5 Newton. Meaning that x um/mN is the same as x cu. Simple isn’t it?

 

[dstrimbu]

Check out these colors and I use a direct drive with return when I am in and out of my shop and cannot lift the arm when the play stops

Amazing color!

Speaking of automatic tonearm lifts... anybody using one on a fully manual table? Brand suggestions welcomed.

 

[Paladin79]

@Paladin79 Fantastic info, Tom, and a very useful summary. Thanks a bunch! Glancing at MC cart prices this morning, and, yeah, you can fall off a fiscal cliff very rapidly. I'm feeling a little better already about getting something together later this summer. In the end we'll see if my rather clumsy fingers are truly up to the task.

Now there are MM’s that exceed entry level MC’s so it gets tricky. The ClearAudio Maestro V2 is a fine example, it is a favorite of my audio group as far as MM even when compared to MC’s close to that price.

 

[tincanear]

Ok, long, slow question.

One of the things I have always wished Schiit provided is non-volume controlled outputs in their preamp products. I am putting together an "upstairs" system using the Modius/Midgard form factor and product range. Price is right. Have the need for several analog inputs, so need the new Saga 2, which again, is perfect for what i am trying to do. So pls, don't think I am putting the Schiit down.

BUT to do what I want to do, which is using: 1) An active subwoofer with only an RCA single ended input, 2) Passive speakers and 3) A Midgard headphone amp. Had to give it a thunk. So, came up with the following:

• Modius SE OUT to Saga 2 SE IN 1
• Vali, DSD DAC and SACD player SE OUTs to Saga 2 SE IN 2,3,4
• Saga 2 Balanced OUT to Midgard Balanced IN, select Midgard Balanced IN permanently.
• Midgard SE OUT to active subwoofer SE IN
• Midgard Balanced OUT to Gjallarhorn Balanced IN
• Gjallarhorn speaker outs to... speakers.
• Obviously headphone OUT on Midgard, turn off Gjallarhorn and Active Subwoofer if only listening on headphones.

I have 3 questions

1. Combination depending on needs and availability of SE and Balanced OUTs and INs - is that OK? Will conversion happen in the connects described above?
   
   
2. Feels convoluted. Is this right? IT FEELS REALLY WEIRD to have to make the Midgard that path to amplification rather than the Saga 2. But that is the only way that I could work out to have both the active SE subwoofer, speaker amp and the headphone amplifier without splitters or worse, trying to insert SYS, ALL controlled by a SINGLE volume knob. If I don't want speakers, will turn off the Gjallarhorn and the active subwoofer. Does this makes sense?
   
   
3. Assuming this is fine, there is again the question of volume control. How to do it?
   - My intuition tells me to have the Saga 2 all the way up all the time and always control the volume from the Midgard, no matter how great the relay volume control on the Saga 2 is unfortunately. Feels like a waste but, read below.
   - This is, as opposed to turning the Midgard all the way up and control the volume from the Saga 2 WHEN USING SPEAKERS and vice versa, turning the Saga 2 all the way up and controlling from Midgard, when using headphones.
   - While I might be taking advantage of the Saga 2 sophisticated volume control, if feels like a disaster waiting to happen. Could blow my speakers or headphones if I lose track of what is controlling what and whether is all the way up or not.

Does this make sense ? Should it work? Although I am complaining about lack of non volumed controlled outputs, I am grateful for the Modius/Midgard and similar line. All of them provide both SE and Balanced INs AND OUTs. This would be even harder with the older Schiit I got downstairs.

If this OK, inserting a Lokius before the Midgard will give me all over EQ (speakers and headphones). IF I decide to do it, should be easy. No to mention getting an extra Gjallarhorn if I wanted to do the monoblock thing. Should be easy too. Hope this is OK, because I like it.

Thanks in advance for your help and I apologize for the long post. Hopefully that won't keep you from chiming in.

Saga2 should have both xlr and rca outs active at the same time in active lo and hi gain modes. not sure (best to check with info@schiit.com) if plugging in headphones into Saga2 will mute both the xlr & rca rear outs.

If your headphones are iems or high impedance dynamics (e.g. senn, beyer) then Saga2 should drive them nicely, and you may not need Midgard.

Per faq page, Midgard won’t mute rear outs when plugging headphones (active all the time). If you want switchable pre outs, then Jotunheim 2

If using Saga2 followed by a hp amp, best to use saga as main volume control (better tracking at low volume settings, though the alps rk27 isn’t too shabby either)

 

[Paladin79]

Amazing color!

Speaking of automatic tonearm lifts... anybody using one on a fully manual table? Brand suggestions welcomed.

Thanks that wood tends to splinter at the edges so I may not send any out. It will be edged with other wood for a larger project.

 

[dstrimbu]

Personally, I will be keeping my MIB cards in my Yggdrasil.

+100. MiB is magic in my main system, sooo different from OG w/r/t the insane clarity that MiB delivers in the top end. The only downside is that I spent a LOT of time moving the B&Ws around, often millimeters at a time, to get the toe-in set just right... but it was worth it. The high end sparkles on a good recording, and invokes chills on a great one. It is only shrill or strident when the recording is schiit. I have a playlist of reference tracks that I can go back to quickly when something sounds "out of sorts", and it (and the setup) hasn't failed me, yet.

Of course, this means I'll need to "upgrade" my OG to Multiform, or (heaven forbid!) buy another Yggy+... ...FOMO, indeed!

There is a review of the dCS Varese DAC in the May 2025 Stereophile. $267,000. That would buy 100 Yggdrasils, and I'll bet it wouldn't sound 100x better. <g>