[schneller]

If you're like a neighbor who recently got bored of their cars and decided to get a new GT3, a Panamera, and a Taycan all on the same day, yeah maybe cost-no-object accessories are for you.

What a cheapskate! He should have gone for the Porsche 911 S/T. The GT3 is a POS.

 

[corndog71]

Over the years it became clear that for 99% of people, recommending “better” cables was like recommending a “better” sponge. Most don’t bother and any differences noticed weren’t worth the cost. I get a little obsessive about my stuff and cables are what got me into this hobby. I have a few favorite brands which work for me. For newbs I recommend Blue Jeans. I use their hdmi cables for video which work well. I appreciate their attention towards meeting the right specs and reasonable prices. For a little more resolution I recommend Kimber Kable. I’ve used their PBJ interconnects and 4TC speaker cables for nearly 30 years. In the last few years I’ve turned to Iconoclast cables. Even their lower cost BAV cables are fantastic in my opinion. YMMV.

 

[adias]

Over the years it became clear that for 99% of people, recommending “better” cables was like recommending a “better” sponge. Most don’t bother and any differences noticed weren’t worth the cost. I get a little obsessive about my stuff and cables are what got me into this hobby. I have a few favorite brands which work for me. For newbs I recommend Blue Jeans. I use their hdmi cables for video which work well. I appreciate their attention towards meeting the right specs and reasonable prices. For a little more resolution I recommend Kimber Kable. I’ve used their PBJ interconnects and 4TC speaker cables for nearly 30 years. In the last few years I’ve turned to Iconoclast cables. Even their lower cost BAV cables are fantastic In my opinion. YMMV.

And I add:

WBC Gotham/Amphenol RCA interconnects

WBC Mogami/Neutrik XLR interconnects.

Reasonably priced, available on Amazon.

And… to be thread-correct: YMMV.

Edit: typo. Thanks @rkw

 

[rkw]

WBT Gotham/Amphenol RCA interconnects

WBT Mogami/Neutrik XLR interconnects.

I think you meant WBC (World's Best Cables) brand. WBT is a high end German brand.

 

[OldRoadToad]

This is a great question, but it touches on the "questions that shall not be asked," or "things that shall never be said," in audio.

I need to do a chapter on this someday (soon), because I have lost much patience with "thou shalt nots" here.

But to answer your question somewhat more expeditiously: I think it comes down to personal preference and budget.

For example, I pretty much ignore cables (whether signal or power), fuses, line conditioners, and many other tweaks. This is mainly due to personal preference, because I don't want the nervosa of worrying about whether or not I am missing out on some real or imagined synergy. It's also due to the fact that I design electronics, complex systems that have their own nervosas, ones that don't end at the sonic level, but extend to usability, reliability, etc.

That said, it's easy to get too reductionist and say, "nothing matters except for the measurements." I don't believe that, or the gear I design would be very different.

What I want to stay away from is being too inclusionist and saying, "everything matters, including chassis metallurgy, stickers, Schumann resonance generators, and other stuff we can't fathom."

Or, to make it simple:

Measurements alone matter --> Me --> Literally everything matters

Personally I wouldn't spend big money on a cable and zero dollars on a fuse. Canare and such are great. Neutrik is wonderful. Beyond that I don't see it. But that's me, and it's colored by my own prejudices and my own business.

You?

You have to choose what's right for you. If you're like a neighbor who recently got bored of their cars and decided to get a new GT3, a Panamera, and a Taycan all on the same day, yeah maybe cost-no-object accessories are for you. If not, maybe not. What I do know is you can get very good cables very affordably from many credible companies, or learn to make your own if you're interested.

Hopefully that helps a bit.

There is a point in audio of diminishing returns. But that diminishing never seems to stop the increase in some folks ego.

We can draw a line but that's of little use to those that would snort it defiance of common sense. And cents. It makes no difference if some lay claim to hearing a difference and I do not. I like VU Meters and have never said that I can hear a difference when they are included in a system. I like the way they look. It makes me feel better because I grew up with them.

It is the same with vinyl. It makes me feel better. It takes me back and then brings me back. Here. Physical media can do that to some of us. But I will never claim vinyl is superior to digital just because I like it. That is silly. That is the way of the frAudiophile. If you're happy and you know it, clap your freakin' hands. Instead of belittling another person's choice in cartridge or their VTA or that they have SACD or worst of all...

...They just want to enjoy their music.


I may be wrong (it happens, LOL) but I think that's what Schiit was founded on. The enjoyment of your music within your budget. Schitt ain't crap and it definitely ain't the prettiest (to ME!) but it gives many people an affordable, QUALITY way to play back and enjoy their soundtrack. Fuque the blossoming soundscape and things like PRaT.

"Pace Rhythm and Timing". PRaT? Really. The definition of the word "prat" is this: "An incompetent or stupid person: an idiot." Fitting really.

And if this missive of mine gets me banned. Again? I give up. I've got better things to do than argue over whether or not I'm an idiot. I already know I am.

Jason, Mike and all the folks they employ deserve your business because they deliver on their promises. And promises are easy to keep when you set out to earn someone's business instad of givin' them the bidness. Enough of my ramblin'. G' Nite folks.

ORT out

 

[artur9]

... In the last few years I’ve turned to Iconoclast cables. Even their lower cost BAV cables are fantastic in my opinion. YMMV.

The Iconoclast white papers are a joy to read, if you're into that sort of thing. I hadn't realized they had cables within my budget - last time I looked they would have blown my budget by 3-4X...

I really do enjoy my rainbow ribbon speaker cable from Pine Tree audio. The shadow ones seemed better to me but I twisted them around too much, need to send them in for repair.

P.S. I also got Pine Tree to make me a special trigger cable for my German amp which takes RJ45 on the amp end.

 

[AndreYew]

If you're like a neighbor who recently got bored of their cars and decided to get a new GT3, a Panamera, and a Taycan all on the same day, yeah maybe cost-no-object accessories are for you.

The true cost-no-object accessories for Porsches are their option list, but not just the regular option list where you can add over $100k to a base Boxster, but the secret menu and the off-menu items: CXX being secret-menu, and the $2k photobook of your car being manufactured being the off-menu item because you have to know to ask for it.

 

[Plautus001]

There is a point in audio of diminishing returns. But that diminishing never seems to stop the increase in some folks ego.

We can draw a line but that's of little use to those that would snort it defiance of common sense. And cents. It makes no difference if some lay claim to hearing a difference and I do not. I like VU Meters and have never said that I can hear a difference when they are included in a system. I like the way they look. It makes me feel better because I grew up with them.

It is the same with vinyl. It makes me feel better. It takes me back and then brings me back. Here. Physical media can do that to some of us. But I will never claim vinyl is superior to digital just because I like it. That is silly. That is the way of the frAudiophile. If you're happy and you know it, clap your freakin' hands. Instead of belittling another person's choice in cartridge or their VTA or that they have SACD or worst of all...

...They just want to enjoy their music.


I may be wrong (it happens, LOL) but I think that's what Schiit was founded on. The enjoyment of your music within your budget. Schitt ain't crap and it definitely ain't the prettiest (to ME!) but it gives many people an affordable, QUALITY way to play back and enjoy their soundtrack. Fuque the blossoming soundscape and things like PRaT.

"Pace Rhythm and Timing". PRaT? Really. The definition of the word "prat" is this: "An incompetent or stupid person: an idiot." Fitting really.

And if this missive of mine gets me banned. Again? I give up. I've got better things to do than argue over whether or not I'm an idiot. I already know I am.

Jason, Mike and all the folks they employ deserve your business because they deliver on their promises. And promises are easy to keep when you set out to earn someone's business instad of givin' them the bidness. Enough of my ramblin'. G' Nite folks.

ORT out

I really enjoyed reading this, thanks!
Sometimes your wit is a VU meter to remind us to enjoy the "glow" of a musical experience.

 

[tincanear]

Serious question for everyone.

After 10 years here I may have missed it due to the sheer volume of posts, but on the Schiit Sine Wave, is there a point on the sine wave for the never ending topic of phoooolisnes of cables being a waste of money after a small sum and at what price point does that start?

If someone isn't mechanically inclined to build their own superior sounding cables for $23.79 is it buy a set for $59.00?

Still the newbie has to realize that their $59.00 will sound inferior to the $23.79 one! LOL, what a hobby.


So, a survey might help establish a "sign" to the newbies to fall in line with the tribal mentally of the sine wave threshold or go somewhere else. Because saying, "but do what you do" feels like a passive aggressive way of saying "you're an idiot".

For instance, here's a cable, outrageous price to some affordable to others.

Kind of middle ground, maybe.

https://danclarkaudio.com/catalog/product/view/id/43/s/vivo/category/91/

How many here vote the item as "A": "foolishness for spending the asked amount of money on something that can't matter sound wise, it's a ripoff."

How many say "B": "may be worth trying"

How many say "C": "anyone spending $4K on cans might as well be taken for an extra $300.00"

How many say "4", "too afraid to say"

if you and others are interested (PM me), I have a few sets of short ~9" monoprice RG-59, Mogami 2549, Grimm TPR, Belden 1505F, and old Monster Interlink interconnects that you can try out between DAC and head-amp or pre-amp. sort of a cable tour, just post your findings to help the knowledge-base (including findings of no audible or non-significant differences) and pay for postage to the next Schiitizen.

For the above cable sets, I heard 'voicing' differences between these with BFM1 OG / Jot2 / mid-range planars. differences less obvious with my old AKG K702s, however. Also heard 'voicing' differences between Canare L4E6S quad and Belden 1800F XLR balanced between Lokius and Jot 2 (prefer the L4E6S to the 1800F BTW). YMMV.

On GearSpace??? while searching for info about the Grimm TPR, comments by recording / mastering professionals about cables were greatly varied-- some had definite preferences, others thought all cables sounded the same.

connectors are Neutrik/Rean or Canare crimp RCA's & Neutrik X or XX Series 3-pin for XLR, nothing $ priced. For me, the contacts/pins/terminals themselves (conductor surface finish, low contact resistance, etc.) and strain relief interface to the cable jacket are much more critical than how fancy the exterior connector shell is.

I wish I had a pair of those DCA stealth (in case anyone has a set, and would like to donate them to science...)

 

[Iowan]

As a newbie (getting back into stereo equipment - music) , I hesitate to dip my toes into the cable discussion ... I find that I can learn quite a bit just reading other folks comments here (example - the streaming discussion a while back) . I must say though , thanks to Schiit for offering cables as accessories . I spent a long time deciding on amps, and it was was nice just to get cables from Schiit. That way, I could safely assume they were of good quality . Some of my old cables were not.
I moved my 2 channel system to a dedicated listening room with some furniture updates. A new entertainment center is on order, so when my gear is up off the floor , I want to buy some nice looking speaker wire (and of similar quality to the pyst ).

 

[Mr Rick]

As a newbie (getting back into stereo equipment - music) , I hesitate to dip my toes into the cable discussion ... I find that I can learn quite a bit just reading other folks comments here (example - the streaming discussion a while back) . I must say though , thanks to Schiit for offering cables as accessories . I spent a long time deciding on amps, and it was was nice just to get cables from Schiit. That way, I could safely assume they were of good quality . Some of my old cables were not.
I moved my 2 channel system to a dedicated listening room with some furniture updates. A new entertainment center is on order, so when my gear is up off the floor , I want to buy some nice looking speaker wire (and of similar quality to the pyst ).

I have always found that length is the most important parameter to consider when purchasing speaker wires. I try to get wires that reach from my amplifier to my speakers. Anything less, severely effects audio quality.

 

[Verde And Black]

Flashbacks from getting an "unexpected surprise" when I turned around too fast on the bench in the YMCA locker room ...

We apparently work out at the same Y. Or that same elderly guy swims at all the Y’s. One or the other…

 

[Verde And Black]

Serious question for everyone.

After 10 years here I may have missed it due to the sheer volume of posts, but on the Schiit Sine Wave, is there a point on the sine wave for the never ending topic of phoooolisnes of cables being a waste of money after a small sum and at what price point does that start?

If someone isn't mechanically inclined to build their own superior sounding cables for $23.79 is it buy a set for $59.00?

Still the newbie has to realize that their $59.00 will sound inferior to the $23.79 one! LOL, what a hobby.


So, a survey might help establish a "sign" to the newbies to fall in line with the tribal mentally of the sine wave threshold or go somewhere else. Because saying, "but do what you do" feels like a passive aggressive way of saying "you're an idiot".

For instance, here's a cable, outrageous price to some affordable to others.

Kind of middle ground, maybe.

https://danclarkaudio.com/catalog/product/view/id/43/s/vivo/category/91/

How many here vote the item as "A": "foolishness for spending the asked amount of money on something that can't matter sound wise, it's a ripoff."

How many say "B": "may be worth trying"

How many say "C": "anyone spending $4K on cans might as well be taken for an extra $300.00"

How many say "4", "too afraid to say"

I know next to nothing about headphones and cables. They’re what I use on airplanes to drown out engine noise while trying to forget that I’m spending real money to be crammed into an uncomfortable seat for many hours at a time, except for when the status wheel spins in my favor.

But expensive speaker cables, pretty much a guaranteed scam. Go for looks, spend more if you need to for that, but well documented as no real effect on sound, so “you do you,” feels about right. Your money ain’t mine, it ain’t my place to tell you how to spend yours, and how someone else spends their money is of zero concern to me. So, you do you.

In broader terms, it’s also like the recent plankton and blackground posts here, and the frequent SINADsite bashing. Doesn’t affect me, I sometimes learn something reading those other sites, but also have a healthy and deep skepticism of anything resembling group think or a cult of personality, so don’t engage beyond skimming/reading. But they’re also not hurting me with their POV. The world is a wide and varied place, and It seems like we might better off, on stuff like this that doesn’t really matter, adopting a you do you or YMMV mindset.

But, YMMV…

 

[Verde And Black]

There is a point in audio of diminishing returns. But that diminishing never seems to stop the increase in some folks ego.

We can draw a line but that's of little use to those that would snort it defiance of common sense. And cents. It makes no difference if some lay claim to hearing a difference and I do not. I like VU Meters and have never said that I can hear a difference when they are included in a system. I like the way they look. It makes me feel better because I grew up with them.

It is the same with vinyl. It makes me feel better. It takes me back and then brings me back. Here. Physical media can do that to some of us. But I will never claim vinyl is superior to digital just because I like it. That is silly. That is the way of the frAudiophile. If you're happy and you know it, clap your freakin' hands. Instead of belittling another person's choice in cartridge or their VTA or that they have SACD or worst of all...

...They just want to enjoy their music.


I may be wrong (it happens, LOL) but I think that's what Schiit was founded on. The enjoyment of your music within your budget. Schitt ain't crap and it definitely ain't the prettiest (to ME!) but it gives many people an affordable, QUALITY way to play back and enjoy their soundtrack. Fuque the blossoming soundscape and things like PRaT.

"Pace Rhythm and Timing". PRaT? Really. The definition of the word "prat" is this: "An incompetent or stupid person: an idiot." Fitting really.

And if this missive of mine gets me banned. Again? I give up. I've got better things to do than argue over whether or not I'm an idiot. I already know I am.

Jason, Mike and all the folks they employ deserve your business because they deliver on their promises. And promises are easy to keep when you set out to earn someone's business instad of givin' them the bidness. Enough of my ramblin'. G' Nite folks.

ORT out

I have a 15 year old niece who has just started to really engage with music. Probably 90% of what she listens to is via spotify, through ear buds. But she’s also into “vinyls” and one of the most rewarding listening sessions I’ve had this past year was spinning records late night with her over Christmas on her all-in-one turntable with built in speaker (and Bluetooth for streaming!). She has a mini collection of lps, some ‘her music’ and some stuff I’ve given her, and we’d spin something from hers, something from mine, etc. and now we’re trading streaming playlists. Her ‘vinyl player’ subjectively sounds like crap. But damn was that a good time listening to music.

 

[Timster]

Class D "food"

That cannot be unseen