[JamminVMI]

No need for me to keep watching, as UVa just choked and burned...!

Saw that. My FIL near Bedford is in a state at the moment… VMI never has a chance, so I need never care overly much. Sorry for your loss…

 

[earnmyturns]

What might be cool is if a Schiit dac could accept DSD input and use some crazy proprietary filter running on their dsp hardware to get a really good conversion to PCM in real time. Considering some DSD conversion software is crazy expensive and runs offline, it would be fun to see Schiit best them with real time conversion built right into the DAC.

There's very little DSD-native material around, statistically speaking, so DSD>PCM is a narrow niche wish. OTOH, there are many DSD-native (just about anything using ESS or AKM chips) or DSD-favoring DACs (like my Holo DACs) for which PCM>DSD with the right filters and modulators (I use HQPlayer) can achieve outstanding results. I've been waiting to see if the Schiit's hinted-at 1-bit (or few-bit) design will see the light of day, that might offer interesting possibilities for external upsampling+modulation.

 

[earnmyturns]

If only we could have a device that digs into our “standard def” music and outputs a “higher resolution” version with an optimized filter of some sort…
Say, a device that takes USB in and spits USB out with a higher sampling rate. Like a M-scaler but with USB out (so it works at > 192k with most modern DACs) and a different take on upsampling/filtering.

It's called Yggdrasil (Now not in jest: I'm pretty skeptical of blackbox PCM upsampling, given that you need to match digital filters and rate to properties of the actual DAC, as Schiit does in its multibit DACs).

 

[classfolkphile]

While all this talk of eating everything from gizzards to gannets is interesting, I'd rather listen to larks...

King Crimson's Lark's Tongues in Aspic, to be specific. Released 50 years ago this month.

Larks is it? I agree.

(Sorry, couldn't figure out how to resize the images.)

 

[theeclone]

DSD is in essence a pulse width modulated signal. Pulse width modulation is what a delta sigma DAC uses to create the analog output signal that gets then send to a filter for smoothing and then to an amplification circuit to be brought up to line level after that. PCM/WAV is simply a different way of encoding the same information, merely an additional step in the process.

So, yes. You’re essentially spot on with your hypothesis. A lot of delta sigma DAC chips come with DSD support “for free” because that’s how they already work at their core to begin with.

DSD is pulse *density modulation. Class D is pulse width modulation. In DSD all pulses are the same width.

Not sure I'm totally following the hypothesis, but if a DAC doesn't accept DSD as input, how would setting your player software to output DSD even work? If anything it would probably be silently converted to PCM somewhere in the process, and then subsequently delta sigma modulated by the DAC. Meaning just extra conversions for no reason. Now, upsampling to the highest sample rate PCM accepted by the DAC I could understand. If the DAC *does accept DSD (either via DOP or native) but isn't truly a 1 bit DAC, that's another story, and at that point, yeah, I would definitely experiment with transcoding to DSD in my player software.

A delta sigma DAC typically takes PCM and creates a very high sample rate, low bit rate output, though almost none of the modern ones use 1 bit, like DSD. Instead they use a few bits as it makes the design easier.

PCM doesn't necessarily have to be another step in the process, so to speak. Hence Mike M's ADC that got used to capture audio completely multibit, no delta sigma in the process, for the MFSL releases. But nowadays most ADCs are delta sigma, and I suppose you could say that their outputting of PCM is another step in the process, though like modern DACs, they're not typically 1 bit like DSD, but a few bits as well. But the thing is, technically, going from DSD to PCM and vice versa is a lossy process, so they're not really representing the same information in two different forms; just two approximations of the original signal with different characteristics depending on how they're used.

 

[earnmyturns]

Many current DACs-on-a-chip are internally DSD-like in how they process the bits (esp. ESS Sabres). Too hard to make proper ladder DACs or whatever.
This being the case, if you can feed that DAC a DSD bitstream that is as close as what they internally process as you can, then they sound better (much!) than if you feed them straight data from the file (PCM what have you).

HQPlayer is the ultimate method for doing the above....

Bingo.

 

[earnmyturns]

A delta sigma DAC typically takes PCM and creates a very high sample rate, low bit rate output, though almost none of the modern ones use 1 bit, like DSD. Instead they use a few bits as it makes the design easier.

There are some interesting intermediates that do use PWM. I don't know if that kind of design is used in current audio DAC chips, but it is (in some form, details are proprietary) in the discrete Linn Organik DAC (for a price...).

 

[theeclone]

There are some interesting intermediates that do use PWM. I don't know if that kind of design is used in current audio DAC chips, but it is (in some form, details are proprietary) in the discrete Linn Organik DAC (for a price...).

Interesting, but if it ain't pulse density modulation, it ain't DSD. My point was specific to DSD.

 

[golfbravobravo]

I found this in York. If @Jason Stoddard doesn't claim it, I want to be know as Ivar the Boneless hereafter.........

 

[golfbravobravo]

You also don't have to deal with, ahem, "difficult" customers. I imagine that's a business driver for Jason and Mike, no demanding customers.
There are plenty of other companies out there that add all kinds of crap features and take money from anybody (sony? denon? etc). Steer the difficult customers their way....

The customer is always right: Not everybody should be your customer.

 

[golfbravobravo]

Do tell?

edit ... just found out the IATA code for Corpus Christi is CRP

...... and Charlotte is CLT. Technically, the IATA designation is KCRP IIRC.

 

[Vtsailor]

DSD is in essence a pulse width modulated signal. Pulse width modulation is what a delta sigma DAC uses to create the analog output signal that gets then send to a filter for smoothing and then to an amplification circuit to be brought up to line level after that. PCM/WAV is simply a different way of encoding the same information, merely an additional step in the process.

So, yes. You’re essentially spot on with your hypothesis. A lot of delta sigma DAC chips come with DSD support “for free” because that’s how they already work at their core to begin with.

So, what is stored on the disc then, the width of each pulse? Or, just a stream of 1’s and 0’s that on a ‘scope would look like a PWM stream?

 

[Cliffh93]

Folks, the Announcement for the Western NC SchiitMeet is now up and running on the Regional Meets forum. Please check it out when you can.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/western-nc-schiitmeet-announcement.967399/

 

[JohnnyCanuck]

just found out the IATA code for Corpus Christi is CRP

Well, that explains Jason's choice of CRP for Schiit's Texas home.

JC

 

[JohnnyCanuck]

I found this in York. If @Jason Stoddard doesn't claim it, I want to be know as Ivar the Boneless hereafter.........

Be honest now, did you pick the name or was it your significant other?


JC