[Randolf711]

My senior programmer has, of all things, an MFA in experimental film. Do NOT get him started on 24fps vs, well, anything else. but hey, we are both over 60, and one ot two prejudices might (repeat, might) exist…

I recently purchased the newest Apple TV (to replace the older 4k model). My wife and I are watching The Soprano’s (she never watched it) and the new Apple TV made a rather significant upgrade to the picture quality. Maybe this is because my new Samsung mini-led tv can handle the frame rate from the Apple TV or maybe not. I don’t really care to tell the truth. It just looks better. If I want to really watch and enjoy something I use my Sony 4k UHD player with a physical disc, it looks gorgeous and the sound is a big upgrade over streaming.

This will be my set up until I upgrade myself into crazy-land and get a separate amp and processor. Then my wife will likely be very irritated by my obsession.

 

[White Noise]

I have a similar revulsion for high-frame-rate stuff, especially interpolated.

I think the ONLY thing that is good for is sports. Believe me you don't want any interpolation etc. for videogames. If it runs at 15 FPS (and there are games that do) then give me those 15 real frames and not one more. Conversely, when a game is running at 120 FPS it is a very different experience from watching movies/tv interpolated to that rate. The biggest bonus is input lag/control responsiveness. Assuming you're considering 60 vs 120 FPS you're considering a window between control inputs being reflected on screen of 16 ms or 8 ms. It makes a lot of sense for videogames, but for movies I agree that it doesn't make any sense (beyond trying to make VFX look more natural). I actually prefer BFI on high refresh rate displays for lower refresh content to really pop the way it should.

Honestly the biggest challenge for a good TV for me is inputs. I have physical consoles going back to the mid-90s and emulate anything older than that, and yes I do play all that stuff. Sega still does what Nintendon't. I think I need around 11 inputs to get everything situated, with switches cascading into switches to do things like strip HDCP (which I'm sure was a great idea in 2007 but is just an added failure point in my setup today) or line-double some of the older consoles in my setup so a modern TV can even recognize them. A lot of TVs just can't cope with all that weirdness (with my current TV there is a specific startup order that must be followed or you're not going to get an image). And at some point I want a PS5 which means HDMI 2.1 which is STILL not a given on TVs and the consoles that need it have been out over a year now.

 

[JoeWhip]

Basically this. It doesn't look like a movie.

I have a similar revulsion for high-frame-rate stuff, especially interpolated.

Here's the weird thingL do I hate OLEDs and high-frame-rate content because I was programmed by watching movies in the theater as a kid? If so, will today's gamers develop an opposite revulsion for low-frame-rate content and more muted colors? I mean, movies never actually did true black, and 24FPS has clear motion issues—these are both defects. Do I like what I like due to the defects that I came to equate with "cinema?" Very, very possible. That's why I say I may be crazy.

The quick answers to both questions is yes. Look at audio. There have been studies that have found that young people prefer low bit rate mp3 over lossless, because in my view, that is what they have been listening to for years. The problem with most flat panel TVs is that people leave them in torch mode, which is terrible in a lighting controlled environment. I have enjoyed my Elite plasma for years as it was properly calibrated and viewed in a lighting controlled room. I would love a 77 inch OLED or a micro led set, but haven’t bought one because with cataracts, it is pointless. That will be taken care of in Feb and March next year. Can’t wait to ditch the glasses after almost 60 years and enjoy 4 or even 8K.

 

[Ripper2860]

From the soon to be released (maybe) 'Valley Girl' remake...

Tommy: Bitchin'! Is this in 8K?
Randy: No, but your face is.

 

[StimpyWan]

The quick answers to both questions is yes. Look at audio. There have been studies that have found that young people prefer low bit rate mp3 over lossless, because in my view, that is what they have been listening to for years. The problem with most flat panel TVs is that people leave them in torch mode, which is terrible in a lighting controlled environment. I have enjoyed my Elite plasma for years as it was properly calibrated and viewed in a lighting controlled room. I would love a 77 inch OLED or a micro led set, but haven’t bought one because with cataracts, it is pointless. That will be taken care of in Feb and March next year. Can’t wait to ditch the glasses after almost 60 years and enjoy 4 or even 8K.

An easy procedure. No worries. I had my right eye done, and my wife has had cataract surgery on both eyes. Neither of us had any issues at all. But, color value and hue will slightly change. The new lenses are very clear, so light appears much brighter and whiter. That takes some getting used to.

Good luck.

 

[Odin412]

On the real-world value of EQ here is the frequency response in my listening room as measured by Dirac:

Interesting that my Zu Omen Dirty Weekends have usable output down to around 35 Hz.

And here's how I (attempt to) perform a poor man's room correction with the J River digital EQ:

The digital EQ helps remove the hardness and shouty-ness caused by the midrange peak in the room. Why not just use Dirac you ask? Well, I didn't really like the sound that it produced - there was a sharpness to the treble that bothered me.

Advantages of a Loki Max would include the ability to adjust the EQ from the comfort of my listening chair, which would be very handy. Of course, if someone here has figured out how to do remote control of the J River digital EQ I would very much like to hear about it!

 

[audio philestine]

I keep trying to retire and they keep paying me more. I feel like Al Pacino in Godfather III: "Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in!"

Steven Van Zandt [from Springsteen's band], playing Sylvio Dante, doing an impression of Al Pacino, playing Michael Corleone.

Probably my second favorite indirect quote, after Robin Williams doing Elmer Fudd doing Bruce Springsteen [the Boss, again!].

 

[JoeWhip]

Thanks StimpyWan.,

 

[AndreYew]

I think you guys were all watching badly setup OLEDs. I love my LG G1 OLED, which replaced a calibrated 7th-gen Pioneer Elite Kuro. The LGs have a filmmaker mode where it basically passes through what the original material is without frame interpolation, and image adjustments, so you don't get the video/soap opera frame rate effect or overly contrasty, colorful images. On a well-done HDR movie like the recent Dune, it looks amazing. Dune lives visually in the shadows and the shadow detail the LG can render is the best I've ever seen, even compared to a Kuro. I use it to check my video edits as well, and there are things in the shadows I can spot on the LG, I can't see on my calibrated IPS computer monitor that's made for video monitoring.

About the worst thing in the LGs are all the advertising that pops up that you have to dig deep into the menus to turn off in like 3 different locations, but once that's done, it's basically like a normal TV.

 

[macdonjh]

Basically this. It doesn't look like a movie.

I have a similar revulsion for high-frame-rate stuff, especially interpolated.

Here's the weird thingL do I hate OLEDs and high-frame-rate content because I was programmed by watching movies in the theater as a kid? If so, will today's gamers develop an opposite revulsion for low-frame-rate content and more muted colors? I mean, movies never actually did true black, and 24FPS has clear motion issues—these are both defects. Do I like what I like due to the defects that I came to equate with "cinema?" Very, very possible. That's why I say I may be crazy.

And here I thought Argle Bargle was only relevant to discussions of audio and marketing. It's a complicated world.

 

[FLTWS]

I think you guys were all watching badly setup OLEDs. I love my LG G1 OLED, which replaced a calibrated 7th-gen Pioneer Elite Kuro. The LGs have a filmmaker mode where it basically passes through what the original material is without frame interpolation, and image adjustments, so you don't get the video/soap opera frame rate effect or overly contrasty, colorful images. On a well-done HDR movie like the recent Dune, it looks amazing. Dune lives visually in the shadows and the shadow detail the LG can render is the best I've ever seen, even compared to a Kuro. I use it to check my video edits as well, and there are things in the shadows I can spot on the LG, I can't see on my calibrated IPS computer monitor that's made for video monitoring.

About the worst thing in the LGs are all the advertising that pops up that you have to dig deep into the menus to turn off in like 3 different locations, but once that's done, it's basically like a normal TV.

I'm not worried about setup with OLED's, its the possibility of "burn-in" that gives me pause.

 

[macdonjh]

On the real-world value of EQ here is the frequency response in my listening room as measured by Dirac:


Interesting that my Zu Omen Dirty Weekends have usable output down to around 35 Hz.

And here's how I (attempt to) perform a poor man's room correction with the J River digital EQ:

The digital EQ helps remove the hardness and shouty-ness caused by the midrange peak in the room. Why not just use Dirac you ask? Well, I didn't really like the sound that it produced - there was a sharpness to the treble that bothered me.

Advantages of a Loki Max would include the ability to adjust the EQ from the comfort of my listening chair, which would be very handy. Of course, if someone here has figured out how to do remote control of the J River digital EQ I would very much like to hear about it!

Does the JRiver phone app control that? Maybe ask in their Interact forum (or look in the wiki)?

 

[JanMc]

Thanks StimpyWan.,

My wife had both eyes done. Before she got her eyes done we were arguing over whether a pair of her pants were blue or green. After she had her eyes done she agreed that they were blue. You will lose the yellowing from the old lenses. She also complained about how bright the world was for a few months. She loves the results and went from wearing coke bottle bottom glasses to not needing any at all!

 

[golfbravobravo]

I can remember the days of reel to reels, laser disks, even stereo high-fi VCR's that helped with the sound of movies. Remember Sansui speakers that had the wooden lattice fronts on them? I won a set of those, a Thorens turntable, and a Dokorter reel to reel in a poker game. The Dokorter looked like this but I do not recall if it was the same model.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2652716181...9Thy9S4oCHwr1Hd3ZU_inaAv7qmx_RmIaAu4cEALw_wcB

Hey gimme a break here! I can remember my dad getting the then revolutionary "stereo" system. Along with the LP 'A Journey Into Stereo Sound".

"Can you hear the train moving across the room?"

 

[golfbravobravo]

I think you guys were all watching badly setup OLEDs. I love my LG G1 OLED, which replaced a calibrated 7th-gen Pioneer Elite Kuro. The LGs have a filmmaker mode where it basically passes through what the original material is without frame interpolation, and image adjustments, so you don't get the video/soap opera frame rate effect or overly contrasty, colorful images. On a well-done HDR movie like the recent Dune, it looks amazing. Dune lives visually in the shadows and the shadow detail the LG can render is the best I've ever seen, even compared to a Kuro. I use it to check my video edits as well, and there are things in the shadows I can spot on the LG, I can't see on my calibrated IPS computer monitor that's made for video monitoring.

About the worst thing in the LGs are all the advertising that pops up that you have to dig deep into the menus to turn off in like 3 different locations, but once that's done, it's basically like a normal TV.

I was surprised to read that folks were unimpressed with OLED too. I have a new (twas my birthday pressy to me) LG 77" C1 and it seems spectacular to me. Now if only I can get the sound up to the same standard...........