[OldRoadToad]

There can be a higher number of different answers but there are some who believe in the accuracy of large groups when you do an average. Check out the work of Francis Galton.

"The classic wisdom-of-the-crowds finding involves point estimation of a continuous quantity. At a 1906 country fair in Plymouth, 800 people participated in a contest to estimate the weight of a slaughtered and dressed ox. Statistician Francis Galton observed that the median guess, 1207 pounds, was accurate within 1% of the true weight of 1198 pounds.[6] This has contributed to the insight in cognitive science that a crowd's individual judgments can be modeled as a probability distribution of responses with the median centered near the true value of the quantity to be estimated.[7]"

Statisticians involved in some of my audio groups testing pointed out such things. It is rare for one person in the group to arrive at the same answer as the group average, but I have seen it happen.

One of the things my group hopes to learn is, are there some $20 tubes out there that are more well received than some of the extremely pricey ones. If you are handed two tubes and know one costs $1,000 many people think it must be better. Expectation bias. Blind testing gets us away from that. IMHO. I also own test equipment and have access to most anything I do not own but what fun is that? I would rather listen, and choose.

This made my toadish head really hurted...Ouch! This is really cool stuff made a bit more real world for such as I, my friend. Thanks!

ORT

 

[US Blues]

Glad I wasn't here yesterday, y'all got downright mean to one another, and to vinegar-based BBQ sauces. The post-eclipse crud.

Thankfully the conversation turned to hot sauce, so there was some redemption. Of late I have been enjoying Santa Fe Seasonings 'Hatch Red Chili Hot Sauce,' and a serrano condiment from Yellowbird, an outfit outta Tejas.

 

[npfries]

Having moved from CA to NC, can confirm vinegar based sauce is an acquired taste. I haven’t yet.

 

[Pondoro]

Having moved from CA to NC, can confirm vinegar based sauce is an acquired taste. I haven’t yet.

I’m a BBQ sauce agnostic. I’ve had ones that I like in all styles. I’ve also had some that don’t really impress me.

 

[cakewalk101]

The smoked chipotle is amazing. The best, imho.

Happy Record Store Day!

Yes, Happy Record Store Day everyone!

 

[Paladin79]

I've been thinking about this, too, with respect to our current sub-topic. It's interesting to me how much of a group's behavior can be predicted by statistical analysis (and somewhat disquieting to me). In your example above about the ox's weight, it would be interesting to know the distribution of the samples. Was the Bell curve wide and flat (the guesses/ estimates were "all over the place") which would make me think the average being close to the measured weight was a fluke? Was the Bell curve narrow and "spikelike", which would make me think lots of subjects in the sample were good at estimating?

Then there's that whole subject of cognitive science, which I find interesting, but can't speak about because I am only somewhat familiar with the "parlor tricks" examples. I haven't done any real studying about it.

Where this all gets disquieting to me is when the "wisdom of the crowd", cognitive science and behavior all come together. People really have to be on their toes to protect themselves from being swayed in directions they don't want to go by others taking advantage of things like expectation bias using data manipulated in certain ways to present "facts" which really aren't. Sadly, I think many people aren't on their toes.

I merely gave an old example and my area of expertise is not statistics. There are many newer examples out there. It could be jelly beans in a jar.
The example with a group of people and an ox may have been skewed if farmers were there who were used to such things. In other examples random people were chosen and the means or median answers were quite close

Generally what we do is a group effort and most of the people involved have backgrounds in engineering, music, mathematics, computer science, even the medical field. There are practical purposes involved I will only get into in PM.

I was doing some blind testing with specific tubes on a small scale and several friends were curious if we could expand the testing, and how to go about that. It is not for everyone and it can be costly. If you have a better methodology by all means use it. This is very specific but we did DAC testing in a similar manner. Once again we got to hear equipment that we could not walk into many showrooms and hear, and yes we did score them blind.

I am not one to say I hear this, and this equipment is better or worse so I like to get several people in the same situation and get multiple thoughts. When I designed the four amps friends said they liked them but I figured some were humoring me so I sent a sample on to folks on this site I have never met and got their reactions. It is just how I think.

 

[golfbravobravo]

Having moved from CA to NC, can confirm vinegar based sauce is an acquired taste. I haven’t yet.

Me too!

 

[npfries]

Me too!

Moved from CA to NC or acquired the taste? Lol

 

[Paladin79]

This made my toadish head really hurted...Ouch! This is really cool stuff made a bit more real world for such as I, my friend. Thanks!

ORT

A fun one is the birthday paradox. Take a random group of 30 people, a high percentage of the time 2 will have the same birthday. (Not birth date.) Get more people and the percentage goes up. I have had this happen in high school, college, and my work environment. Most people start thinking the odds are 365 to one, but not so.

 

[Ripper2860]

Where this all gets disquieting to me is when the "wisdom of the crowd", cognitive science and behavior all come together. People really have to be on their toes to protect themselves from being swayed in directions they don't want to go by others taking advantage of things like expectation bias using data manipulated in certain ways to present "facts" which really aren't. Sadly, I think many people aren't on their toes.

Now, now. No politics, please.

 

[RCBinTN]

I always thought that Roundabout by Yes was a good reference track to compare audio systems. The 24/96 remastered version.

All the talk about audio subjectivity took me back to the old HP meets I attended. What fun ... going table to table listening to other peoples' gear. When I found the system I liked the best, it became my mission in this hobby to replicate it. That system belonged to Dan Clark: Yggdrasil -> Woo Audio WA5 -> HD800. This was around 2014 or so.

 

[Pondoro]

Now, now. No politics, please.

I thought he was talking about high end audio reviewers...

 

[Paladin79]

Here's some of my test tracks, and a list that I saw from a review of Tekton's MOAB..
ARTIST - Track (Album)
Loreena McKennitt - Dark Night of the Soul (The Mask and the Mirror)
Jennifer Warnes - Joan of Arc (Famous Blue Raincoat)
Enya - Watermark (Watermark)
Enya - The Longships (Watermark)
Deep Forest - Hunting (World Mix)
Deep Forest - Deep Folk Song (Boheme)
Tina Arena - Heaven Help my Heart (Don't Ask)
Tina Arena - I Want to Know What Love is (In Deep)
Taylor Swift - Exile (folklore)
Madonna - La Isla Bonita (Immaculate Collection)
Madonna - Vogue (Immaculate Collection)
Isaac Hayes - Ike's Plea/Life's Mood/Summer in the City (Branded)
Pink Floyd - Poles Apart (Division Bell)
Toto - Rosanna (IV)
Toto - Gift of Faith, The Road Goes On (Tambu)
Def Leppard - White Lightning (Adrenalize)
Steve Vai - Erotic Nightmares (Passion & Warfare)
Steve Vai - Still my Bleeding Heart (Sex and Religion)
Steve Erquiaga - Presto (Cafe Paradiso)
Level 42 - World Machine (World Machine)
Level 42 - Leaving me now (World Machine)
Papa Doo Run Run - California Project (whole album)
Amorphis - Brother and Sister (Queen of Time)
Threshold - Siren Sky (For the Journey)
Beyond the Bridge - The Call (The Old Man and the Spirit)
Darkwater - The Play Part 1 & 2 (Calling the Earth to Witness)
Soen - Lotus, River (Lotus)

https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/789243bc-5965-44ee-b92f-a9a446b29276
I don't have Tidal, but still found most of these on other services.

An interesting list. I listen to a lot of Leonard Cohen and have heard many covers of Famous Blue Raincoat. Division Bell is also a go to for my personal listening. Naturally some Art Pepper and Larry Carlton etc.


Now for actual testing of equipment I might go with Daft Punk, Vulfpeck, Beats Antique, and Dead Can Dance.

 

[OldRoadToad]

I always thought that Roundabout by Yes was a good reference track to compare audio systems. The 24/96 remastered version.

All the talk about audio subjectivity took me back to the old HP meets I attended. What fun ... going table to table listening to other peoples' gear. When I found the system I liked the best, it became my mission in this hobby to replicate it. That system belonged to Dan Clark: Yggdrasil -> Woo Audio WA5 -> HD800. This was around 2014 or so.

It is an excellent song even if I don't think I will ever understand the lyrics!
ORT

 

[Zachik]

An interesting list. I listen to a lot of Leonard Cohen and have heard many covers of Famous Blue Raincoat. Division Bell is also a go to for my personal listening. Naturally some Art Pepper and Larry Carlton etc.


Now for actual testing of equipment I might go with Daft Punk, Vulfpeck, Beats Antique, and Dead Can Dance.

You mentioned before that your special recorded test tracks help showing off 20 (or was it 25) different criteria. Can you elaborate on that? Do you have a list of 20+ attributes that you and your test group grade for each amp or DAC or tube or whatever is being tested?