[audioholik]

I think the first part would violate Schiit's basic bit-perfect philosophy. I think both Jason and Mike are on the record as categorically disliking upsampling.

That's interesting, as other Schiit DACs all oversample PCM signal inside delta sigma modulators.

 

[audioholik]

What are you talking about "backwards compatible with PCM"!? PCM formats are superior to DSD in the audible spectrum!

:braces self:

Cheers

 
I mean they can upsample PCM to a DSD-like delta sigma modulated signal, so you can still play them on a DSD DAC.
 
As for the superiority of PCM digital audio, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one... 

 

[NinjaHamster]

So in one day you have had: bathing under a waterfall, a workout, a wet T-shirt competition, pizza, and men dressed up as firemen arriving - sounds like a good night to me !!
 
Trying to put on my marketing cap ... When life gives you lemons, make lemonade ... could you call these the world's first affordable "water-cooled" audio components ?

 

[SoupRKnowva]

  That's interesting, as other Schiit DACs all oversample PCM signal inside delta sigma modulators.

upsampling and oversampling are two different things...

 

[audioholik]

  upsampling and oversampling are two different things...

How do they differ? AKM DAC chips do both as far as I know.

 

[x838nwy]

upsampling and oversampling are two different things...

Please elaborate on this. I have always thought they're the same thing.

 

[drez]

  The Loki has a hard time selling because people don't like the idea of having to outsource the DSD decoding to another box when there are other solutions that can do it all in one box. It's not an "elegant" solution and for neurotic audiophiles that is an issue.
 
The audience that is interested in DSD are those who tend to be the most discerning and willing to spend money to satisfy those OCDs, this solution does not check off any of those audiophile OCD checkboxes. Audiophiles argue about cables and additional components to the "chain" that will impact quality, the Loki is a neurotic audiophile's worst nightmare, I'm not surprised it's not selling well. Also, it does not support balanced operation, which also is another of those audiophile OCDs. Are these OCDs substantiated? Probably not Most likely not Almost certainly not, but it comes with the territory.
 
 
I guess you could argue that the Loki is targeted towards the entry level DSD audiophile who has not yet developed these OCDs. The reason these people are not purchasing it is because they are looking for something affordable, probably came to the website to buy the Modi (which is a ridiculous deal btw at $99), and then saw that the Loki was an additional $149 and figured they'd just purchase the Modi in the meantime and hold off on buying the Loki until they find that they needed it. Well given that they don't have those audiophile OCDs (and remember, they were looking for something affordable), they never end up purchasing higher-priced DSD tracks and live the rest of their lives consuming redbook or possibly even just a streaming service. The Loki is forgotten.
 
I haven't heard the Loki myself, and doesn't work for me in terms of connectivity options (yes an audiophile OCD), but I'm sure it sounds great as there are people I trust who say it gets the job done, so I do find it unfortunate that it is having a hard time selling.

 
True on most points, DSD is kind of for purists/OCD inclined audiophiles.  A half-effort with DSD is probably misreading the target market as you say.
 

---

 
Tubes are way too dangerous for audiophiles with OCD - which is why I stick to SS : )

 

[Ableza]

DSD is "for purists" only if the material was originally recorded in DSD.  Otherwise, it's just another re-sampling trick.

 

[7ryder]

^^^ This

 

[Empty Flower]

Enjoying this greatly so far. 

 

[Rem0o]

  DSD is "for purists" only if the material was originally recorded in DSD.  Otherwise, it's just another re-sampling trick.

I also don't get the whole DSD thing. It's just a different sampling technique using a 1 bit PWM like modulation at stupid high frequencies. And there is just no content widely available in that format. Not worth the effort with actual PCM availability.

 

[Armaegis]

  Tubes are way too dangerous for audiophiles with OCD - which is why I stick to SS : )

 
I'm gonna generalize this and say "money" is way too dangerous for audiophiles with OCD. Thankfully/unfortunately, we (or at least *I*) tend to run out of it pretty quickly.

 

[audioholik]

  DSD is "for purists" only if the material was originally recorded in DSD.  Otherwise, it's just another re-sampling trick.

 
Of course, a similar thing could also be said about PCM content, that is PCM derived from Delta sigma modulators (a vast, vast majority of current PCM material) is just a re-sampling and decimation trick.

 

[Ableza]

   
Of course, a similar thing could also be said about PCM content, that is PCM derived from Delta sigma modulators (a vast, vast majority of current PCM material) is just a re-sampling and decimation trick.

All professional digital recorders that I know of use PCM, so I'm not sure what you mean.  So if the digital original is PCM, then...  If you mean so-called "high resolution" material such as much of the 24/96 or higher stuff that's currently available then yes, unless it was recorded that way (or originally digitized from analog at those resolutions) it is just a resample just like DSD or any other flavor of the day.  And by the way resamples contain no additional useful information from the 16/41 or 16/48 original, just extra zeroes...

 

[audioholik]

  All professional digital recorders that I know of use PCM, so I'm not sure what you mean. 

By this I mean that although these are commonly called PCM recorders, the "PCM" signal these devices output is really the result of a re-sampling and decimotion trick performed on the delta sigma modulator data stream.