[tincanear]

I thought I'd post up here for some quick answers, thoughts and opinions.
I'm looking to pull the trigger on the Vidar 2 or Aegir.

Room is untreated: (l x w x h) 25'x13'x9'
One end of the length(l) opens and widens to the kitchen and the other end of the length(l) opens and widens to a stairway.
It's an odd shaped room. Not quite a rectangular box but "close" in general.
I share a wall with a neighbor on the kitchen side of the length(l). In other words I cannot play music blaringly loud.
Loud enough to enjoy though!

I want to make the right speaker amp choice right off the bat: Vidar 2 or Aegir.

My speakers:
Speaker pair 1: Denton Wharfedale 85th Anniversary (4 ohms: 88db @ 2.0V @ 1m)
Speaker pair 2: Klipsch RP-600M (8 ohms: 96dB @ 2.83V / 1m)
I switch between the two speaker sets often. Currently they are driven by a Marantz Rx SR8012.

Which amp would you recommend for the Speakers and Setup?
(I can only get one amp.)

Bifrost 2 -> Freya + -> Amp -> Speakers

more info might be helpful:
what are your preferred music genres?
what typical volume range are you using on the marantz currently?
max volume setting on marantz?

 

[Timster]

I thought I'd post up here for some quick answers, thoughts and opinions.
I'm looking to pull the trigger on the Vidar 2 or Aegir.

Room is untreated: (l x w x h) 25'x13'x9'
One end of the length(l) opens and widens to the kitchen and the other end of the length(l) opens and widens to a stairway.
It's an odd shaped room. Not quite a rectangular box but "close" in general.
I share a wall with a neighbor on the kitchen side of the length(l). In other words I cannot play music blaringly loud.
Loud enough to enjoy though!

I want to make the right speaker amp choice right off the bat: Vidar 2 or Aegir.

My speakers:
Speaker pair 1: Denton Wharfedale 85th Anniversary (4 ohms: 88db @ 2.0V @ 1m)
Speaker pair 2: Klipsch RP-600M (8 ohms: 96dB @ 2.83V / 1m)
I switch between the two speaker sets often. Currently they are driven by a Marantz Rx SR8012.

Which amp would you recommend for the Speakers and Setup?
(I can only get one amp.)

Bifrost 2 -> Freya + -> Amp -> Speakers

I would think the Vidar 2 will be a better fit for the Dentons, given their sensitivity, and will of course still be fine for the Klipsch.

But even then, the Aegir at 20W will be mostly idling along at a few watts unless you listen loud.

 

[JanMc]

'IF' you can get by with the power of the Aegir, it does sound a fair bit nicer than the Vidar. Sweeter, more detailed, and for acoustic instruments it is more 'real' sounding.

 

[OldRoadToad]

Typical RCA employee:

Upon my viewing of the photo of the typical RCA employee both of my watches stopped.

ORT

 

[Paladin79]

Upon my viewing of the photo of the typical RCA employee both of my watches stopped.

ORT

Well being in another country and most likely not around in the early 70’s, I took it as a joke.

 

[roncruiser]

more info might be helpful:
what are your preferred music genres?
what typical volume range are you using on the marantz currently?
max volume setting on marantz?

Preferred music genres are wide ranging from modern Jazz artists and Jazz singers like Melody Gardot... to
contemporary like Fiona Apple to... hard thumping rock like Alice in Chains to... Van Halen. My music choice is mood driven.

Right now it's modern Jazz. As I write this, I'm listening to March for Mingus by Melody Gardot (live).
Max volume setting on the Marantz is 94.
I maybe get up to 60-70...75.

 

[Jason Stoddard]

Except he didn't call it rail voltage. Here's the quote:

Firstly, he doesn't say anything about rail voltage. He says you need 80 volts across 8 ohms. This is not how we talk about AC signals firstly, we talk in terms of RMS, Vp (Voltage-Peak), and Vpp (Voltage-Peak-to-Peak). RMS is, roughly speaking, the average voltage of the /absolute/ value of the waveform (functionally, signs removed from the amplitudes). Vp is the total differential from 0 amplitude to the peak of the waveform (usually positive), so the amplitude of one side of the wave. Vpp is the total swing from peak to trough.

So for 100wpc RMS into 8 ohms we have:

Vrms = 28v
Vp = 40v
Vpp = 80v
R = 8 ohms

Does that mean the load is drawing 800w? Absolutely not. The power draw is actually based on Vp, not Vpp. At peak positive, you're pulling 200w (Vp = 40v, R = 8 ohms, I = Vp/R = 40v / 8 ohms = 5 amps, P = Vp * I = 40v * 5 a = 200w). At peak negative you're pulling 200w as well. That's 400wpc total power dissipation, as I noted earlier.

Argh, you're absolutely right! I'm so used to dealing with the reality of 4 ohm loads I screwed it up. I'll fix the chapter shortly.

But yeah, you have to swing 80V p-p thru 8 ohms for 100W RMS, which means 80+ volt total rails (+/-40V typically). But that's for speaker amps, where you want to run rails as close to your power target as possible. With headphone amps, you typically will run higher rails to deal with high impedance loads. So when an original Asgard ran 250mA bias to to 1W RMS into 32 ohms, it wasn't running 16V total rails, it ran 32V. So the dissipation was much higher.

Edit: bonus math:

1W RMS into 32 ohms = 5.7V RMS or 16Vp-p (ish). 16Vp-p = 8Vp, 8/32 = 0.25A

All Schiit amps are rated in watts RMS, by the way.

 

[StimpyWan]

Now I know where @bcowen gets his cardboard fascination...!

 

[Roy G. Biv]

Upon my viewing of the photo of the typical RCA employee both of my watches stopped.

ORT

That... was weirdly funny. Nicely done. May you inherit the planet's supply of unused VU meters!

I imagine this is how conversations between @bcowen and @Paladin79 start off when they're both hungover and don't know how to start the day's conversation.

 

[tincanear]

Toaster options could be balanced (toasts both sides) or single-ended.

I like ones that are good at imaging, i.e the ones that imprint iconography.

Certain other hi-fi branded toasters would have a perfectly even cook, within 0.00001%, but taste burnt. They might even be adept at burning the house down.

Andrew

IEC socket / toasterphile power cord

 

[Paladin79]

That... was weirdly funny. Nicely done. May you inherit the planet's supply of unused VU meters!




I imagine this is how conversations between @bcowen and @Paladin79 start off when they're both hungover and don't know how to start the day's conversation.

Thanks I needed a good laugh.

 

[tincanear]

...But that's for speaker amps, where you want to run rails as close to your power target as possible. With headphone amps, you typically will run higher rails to deal with low impedance loads.

on headphone amps, do you mean higher rails to deal with low High impedance (e.g 300 and 600 ohm) loads?
(you must be working way too hard)

looking forward to Mjolnir 3, hopefully the multiple operating modes give it a wide range of voicings (from dead neutral to warm)

 

[Paladin79]

Time to round out the evening with Crosby, Stills, and Nash as a tribute to David Crosby.

 

[tincanear]

Preferred music genres are wide ranging from modern Jazz artists and Jazz singers like Melody Gardot... to
contemporary like Fiona Apple to... hard thumping rock like Alice in Chains to... Van Halen. My music choice is mood driven.

Right now it's modern Jazz. As I write this, I'm listening to March for Mingus by Melody Gardot (live).
Max volume setting on the Marantz is 94.
I maybe get up to 60-70...75.

a single stereo Vidar 2 then, to give some headroom against clipping (which can damage mids and tweeters). IIRC the klipsch tower speakers are often closer to 4 or 6 ohms impedance, and using pseudo 8-ohm specifications (using 2.83Vrms input, which is more than 1W into their actual load impedance) to make them look more efficient.

 

[OldRoadToad]

Now I know where @bcowen gets his cardboard fascination...!

Stupendous Man!

ORT