[Ableza]

I have a Bifrost 2/64. It sounded great right out of the box and it still sounds great several weeks later. Has the sound changed with time? Who knows. If it has then it's been a subtle thing that was not apparent to these ears. And you know what? It just doesn't matter. I like what I hear.

 

[mattlach]

That would be nice if this was the case, with this particular unit. I'd say just about every piece of class-a or even class A/B solid state gear I've owned last 45 years had some early "settling in" period even if it was for only 1hr in the first hour. A notable difference with amps until they reach full bias, sure but an ss dac, we'll see more feadack, maybe? Perhaps it was cold and now specs changing once fully warm, I don't know. Making Schiit up now, hahah, LOL. No. Actually hearing it.

In this case, the change was very notable even in the first 45 minutes. There was a midrange strange glare and sibilance at first. Was odd, made me think at first, oh man, "hope i don't need to return this piece of Schiit". Nope, not the case now - its good now. fwiw, I've been designing and building speakers for 4+ decades, I mod my own amps, caps, etc and do some early prototype demos for a few cable manufacturers. I've learned to listen very closely [over several decades now] and taking notes on early power-on and settling is a sidebar geek-out ocd thing I do. Sharing with you, there was a change in sound, for whatever reason. Or, the dac may be faulty and somehow mended itself. Who knows. In any case, sounds better now. 5+ others on this site alone agree it settles in week1, and @automojo felt he heard changes up through week2. We know each other from the speaker world, other sites, and I'll go with his rec on this plus 5+ others.

Thanks for your input though. We'll see what the majority says in time once this new BF 2/64 is out there a while longer, and all experience is good. Thx.

There is - of course - something to be said for subjective listening, but it is also problematic, and subjective things aren't exactly repeatable like measurements are, and they are subject to the innate human biases we all have.

If you expect a new product to "sound worse until it is burned in" that is  exaclty what you will hear, whether or not it is actually true.

Then again on the flipside, if I expect there to be no difference, that is probably exactly what I will hear too.

That's one of the ways human bias works. It tends to confirm our expectations. And this gets worse the older we get. We tend to be more open to expectation defying experiences when we are younger.

The human brain is a crazy thing.

That's why we should take subjective listening assessments for what they are. Subjective. Take them with a grain of salt.

There is totally something to them. There is a reason Multibit DAC's sound pretty good despite usually measuring worse than delta-sigma, but subtle nuance and repeatable assessments are not really something once can expect from any subjective assessment, at least not unless A/B comparing immediately side by side, and even then, unless you are blinded, bias is in play.

We'd all be much better off if we stopped trusting our own eyes (or ears in this case) as absolute truth, in all aspects of our lives. Nothing could be further from the truth. Bias is real, and while we can never escape it, at least being cognizant of its existence can help us make.kore rational decisions and assessments in our lives.

 

[decooney]

@mattlach "Burn in though? I'm a huge skeptic there."

It's possible you cannot hear a difference. Many state they cannot, while others report otherwise. A fun debate in any case

I've had people sitting and listening after warmup of different pieces and/or changes of cables and one person could not hear a difference at all with ss gear, and four others absolutely could hear a difference making notes on a pad, then sharing notes with each other after a period of time. Its a proven fact some gear sounds better after it reaches a particular operating temperature. Most agree here. The part about it taking a week+ is where it can be debatable for many. Its fun to compare notes though. Happy listening.

 

[Runrunsmithfly]

Modi Multibit will come back, it's only a matter of time (and chip supply). It appears to be waaay too successful a product to ever really go away.

I wouldn't part with mine. I'd love to see a Modius multibit so I could have the balanced output option. I wonder if Schiit expects to be able to get more Analog Devices chips or will go with the TI option?

 

[Ableza]

There is - of course - something to be said for subjective listening, but it is also problematic, and subjective things aren't exactly repeatable like measurements are, and they are subject to the innate human biases we all have.

If you expect a new product to "sound worse until it is burned in" that is  exaclty what you will hear, whether or not it is actually true.

Then again on the flipside, if I expect there to be no difference, that is probably exactly what I will hear too.

That's one of the ways human bias works. It tends to confirm our expectations. And this gets worse the older we get. We tend to be more open to expectation defying experiences when we are younger.

The human brain is a crazy thing.

That's why we should take subjective listening assessments for what they are. Subjective. Take them with a grain of salt.

There is totally something to them. There is a reason Multibit DAC's sound pretty good despite usually measuring worse than delta-sigma, but subtle nuance and repeatable assessments are not really something once can expect from any subjective assessment, at least not unless A/B comparing immediately side by side, and even then, unless you are blinded, bias is in play.

We'd all be much better off if we stopped trusting our own eyes (or ears in this case) as absolute truth, in all aspects of our lives. Nothing could be further from the truth. Bias is real, and while we can never escape it, at least being cognizant of its existence can help us make.kore rational decisions and assessments in our lives.

I take the opposite position. Subjective experience is ALL that matters. Measurements are great for designers and engineers who are creating systems and determining if they work as intended. As a designer that's what I use them for. But as USERS, our personal perception- including our biases, our individual brain chemistry and auditory system physiology, our personalities, imperfect experiences, imperfect listening environments and personal aesthetic preferences - are the only things that matter to us.

The mistake some people in this hobby make is trying to create "truth" from subjective experience. Your experience applies to you, but it may not - indeed it likely does not apply - to anyone else.

So make up your own mind and be happy with what you like. As the song says, nothing else matters.

 

[Paladin79]

Never mind, I was doing other things and misread a statement.

I had an issue with a phono pre-amp and a shorted tube turned out to be the culprit. Relief washed all over me when I found no damage done to equipment.

 

[ArmchairPhilosopher]

I wouldn't part with mine. I'd love to see a Modius multibit so I could have the balanced output option. I wonder if Schiit expects to be able to get more Analog Devices chips or will go with the TI option?

From where I am standing, Bifrost is the multibit equivalent of Modius. I have my doubts that you could make a fully balanced multibit DAC any cheaper than what Bifrost asks. At least one that's worthy of Schiit's time and effort, considering how good even Modi MB already sounds. In terms of sonic quality, there isn't really all that much of a gap between Modi MB and Bifrost, and expanding upon Modi MB to make it fully balanced gets you close to Bifrost in terms of dimension and bill of materials anyway.

As for AD vs. TI: Nothing official that I recall. But based on my reading of the tea leaves, I wouldn't be surprised to hear at some point in the not all too distant future that AD is officially on its way out the door. It appears that TI is easier and considerably cheaper to source, and that goes a long way for the kind of market that Schiit targets. I have yet to audition any of Schiit's TI-based DACs (my order for a 2/64 card is in the queue), but based on reviews, I have a feeling that I miiiiiiiiiight miss having access to AD-based Schiit down the road, especially when it comes to the Yggy. But such is life. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[ArmchairPhilosopher]

I take the opposite position. Subjective experience is ALL that matters. Measurements are great for designers and engineers who are creating systems and determining if they work as intended. As a designer that's what I use them for. But as USERS, our personal perception- including our biases, our individual brain chemistry and auditory system physiology, our personalities, imperfect experiences, imperfect listening environments and personal aesthetic preferences - are the only things that matter to us.

The mistake some people in this hobby make is trying to create "truth" from subjective experience. Your experience applies to you, but it may not - indeed it likely does not apply - to anyone else.

So make up your own mind and be happy with what you like. As the song says, nothing else matters.

I hate to agree with you.
But I completely agree with you.

 

[StimpyWan]

In my experience, my Bifrost MB OG definitely sounds better, after a long warm up period. Fresh out of the box, it was muddy and boomy in the bass, while very peaky, and a bit sibilant in the upper mids/lower treble. With at least a week of warm up time, it settled it in nicely. Now, since it's in my work set up, it stays on 24/7.

As to burn in, I believe in that too. Especially with capacitors. But, with Schiit MB DACs, I attribute changes in sound to warm up, and not burn in. It seems the DAC chips that Schiit uses (used) required a certain temperature equilibrium to sound their best. While I'm not sure if that applies to the newest designs, it did with previous DACs.

 

[Ableza]

In my experience, my Bifrost MB OG definitely sounds better, after a long warm up period. Fresh out of the box, it was muddy and boomy in the bass, while very peaky, and a bit sibilant in the upper mids/lower treble. With at least a week of warm up time, it settled it in nicely. Now, since it's in my work set up, it stays on 24/7.

As to burn in, I believe in that too. Especially with capacitors. But, with Schiit MB DACs, I attribute changes in sound to warm up, and not burn in. It seems the DAC chips that Schiit uses (used) required a certain temperature equilibrium to sound their best. While I'm not sure if that applies to the newest designs, it did with previous DACs.

To paraphrase Dr. Neal DeGrasse Tyson, science does not care what you believe. But as I said before, it doesn't matter "why." If you like it then you are winning.

 

[Runrunsmithfly]

From where I am standing, Bifrost is the multibit equivalent of Modius. I have my doubts that you could make a fully balanced multibit DAC any cheaper than what Bifrost asks. At least one that's worthy of Schiit's time and effort, considering how good even Modi MB already sounds. In terms of sonic quality, there isn't really all that much of a gap between Modi MB and Bifrost, and expanding upon Modi MB to make it fully balanced gets you close to Bifrost in terms of dimension and bill of materials anyway.

As for AD vs. TI: Nothing official that I recall. But based on my reading of the tea leaves, I wouldn't be surprised to hear at some point in the not all too distant future that AD is officially on its way out the door. It appears that TI is easier and considerably cheaper to source, and that goes a long way for the kind of market that Schiit targets. I have yet to audition any of Schiit's TI-based DACs (my order for a 2/64 card is in the queue), but based on reviews, I have a feeling that I miiiiiiiiiight miss having access to AD-based Schiit down the road, especially when it comes to the Yggy. But such is life. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

A Bifrost 2 is close to $900 with tax and shipping so it's a good thing that I'm still happy with my trusty old Modi multibit.

 

[StimpyWan]

“If it measures good and sounds bad, — it is bad. If it sounds good and measures bad,- you’ve measured the wrong thing.” (Daniel R. von Recklinghausen)

 

[Andrew Randle]

I wouldn't part with mine. I'd love to see a Modius multibit so I could have the balanced output option. I wonder if Schiit expects to be able to get more Analog Devices chips or will go with the TI option?

My hopes are that There May soon be the outcome of Schiit’s proprietary 1-bit implementation, involving the super mega combo burrito filter.

Not Multibit, but I am intrigued. I do have the Mimby and love it dearly (preferred it to a Gumby, actually). If a 1-bit product appeared at $400, it would be an insta-buy for me - even at today’s UKP/USD exchange rate.

Andrew

 

[ArmchairPhilosopher]

Me, going back to Gumby and Folkvangr after a few days of listening to Bifrost and Jotunheim:

 

[Paladin79]

Me, going back to Gumby and Folkvangr after a few days of listening to Bifrost and Jotunheim:

I have a hard time using headphones right now since I completed my two channel system, a Gungnir is certainly involved as will be a Freya +. I will most likely have a Bifrost 2 extra before long; I can only use so much gear at a given time and I am getting back into vinyl. In retirement I can take extra time with record cleaning and tube rolling.