[Ableza]

My best job interview went like this.  I arrived at the company location wearing suit and tie, fully prepared for any and all technical grilling.  I was seated in a conference room, and a few minutes later the owner and CEO came in, shook my hand, and asked if I was hungry.  Sure, I said.  He told me to leave my coat and tie behind unless I was cold and let's go eat.  We got into his 911 Turbo and went to a local Fish Market, sat down, ordered and proceeded to talk over lunch about cars, movies, wine, scotch, my family, sports, and other non-work related topics.  After lunch we got back into his car and on the way back to the office he asked me how much money I needed.  I told him and he didn't comment.  When we got back he shook my hand and asked, "When can you start?"  I still have that job today 18 years later.

 

[JW Santhem]

  My best job interview went like this.  I arrived at the company location wearing suit and tie, fully prepared for any and all technical grilling.  I was seated in a conference room, and a few minutes later the owner and CEO came in, shook my hand, and asked if I was hungry.  Sure, I said.  He told me to leave my coat and tie behind unless I was cold and let's go eat.  We got into his 911 Turbo and went to a local Fish Market, sat down, ordered and proceeded to talk over lunch about cars, movies, wine, scotch, my family, sports, and other non-work related topics.  After lunch we got back into his car and on the way back to the office he asked me how much money I needed.  I told him and he didn't comment.  When we got back he shook my hand and asked, "When can you start?"  I still have that job today 18 years later.

 
As a CEO you get away with this kind of behaviour, after all, you are fully responsible. But from a human resources point of view, when a recruiter would use such methods, there's simply a lack of accountability that an official procedure takes away, or at least attempts to take away.
 
I'm pretty convinced that the informal just-talk way is the way to go, but it seems difficult to implement in any business that is not a startup or small business.

 

[superjawes]

If you go to a college career fair, almost all of the recognizable companies will require a high GPA, regardless of the school. It's one of the basic "pass/fail" criteria that you can use to trim the applicant list. This does mean that you might overlook applicants who would excel in the (position despite a lower GPA), but again, it trims down the applicant list without requiring any real work.

And after GPA vetting, then you go through several iterations to get down to a manageable number of people to actually interview. At that point--if HR, etc. have done an excellent job--then you can focus on a relaxed, casual interview.

My point is that it is possible to have such interviews in larger organizations, but you have to do some prep work to get to that point (and that prep work will generally lack a human touch). Hiring managers aren't going to have the time to deal with more than a few interviews in a day.

 

[sludgeogre]

At my company, we staffed up without all of the insane red tape and automated procedures, and we got amazingly high quality people. It just takes someone who is willing to thumb through THOUSANDS of resumes, and is able to immediately reject the crap ones and save the ones that at least look professional and interesting. From there you can evaluate more in depth and then do interviews.
 
After my company implemented a long, intense online pre-screening form, tons of people that all of us were trying to bring out were immediately rejected and locked out of applying for 6 months. Instead we get pizza delivery guys and burger flippers because they somehow pass the online test, but guys with real operating and chemical plant experience are thrown out for stupid reasons. People that we know are amazing and will learn immediately, be dependable and responsible, operate safely, and mature quickly are thrown out because they don't meet their basic requirements, then we get stuck with morons that somehow fit the background, education, and experience checks that they throw in. I couldn't be more unhappy with how we hire people.
 
I know where you're coming from superjawes, but I feel that the processes that HR uses to make things "manageable" end up taking all of the soul and purpose out of the entire process, and you end up with a terrible playing field.

 

[alpha421]

Jason's story just proves that networking supersedes all other forms of hiring.  Sure, having stellar credentials may get you through the first door, but knowing someone from within, especially if he/she has clout in the hiring decision - you just leaped over everyone else's resume.

 

[Ableza]

I do not allow HR to be involved in the hiring process.  They have important roles to play after I decide who I want to hire, of course, but they have no place in my hiring decision making process.

 

[sludgeogre]

  I do not allow HR to be involved in the hiring process.  They have important roles to play after I decide who I want to hire, of course, but they have no place in my hiring decision making process.

I totally agree. I'm a chemical engineer at a metal mine. What the hell does HR know about what to look for in a chemical engineer at one of the only mines of its kind in the western hemisphere? Not a damn thing.

 

[BeyerMonster]

  What the hell does HR know about what to look for in a chemical engineer at one of the only mines of its kind in the western hemisphere? Not a damn thing.

The same thing generally holds true for jobs/companies that are NOT unique.
 
No offense to anyone in HR.

 

[kuhchuk]

I didn't really have much of a job interview for my (first, and so far only) job.  Friend who worked there asked if I was willing to work there.  I said sure, and he gave me his boss's phone number.  I called the shop, and he asked if I was willing to work.  Said yeah, and he told me when to show up.  Turns out that what he was looking for was a trial by fire.  
 
One hell of a first week, but I made it just fine.  A year and a half later and I'm starting to move up in the company.  
 
It's really interesting to see how other new guys deal with the trial-by-fire situation.

 

[superjawes]

I know where you're coming from superjawes, but I feel that the processes that HR uses to make things "manageable" end up taking all of the soul and purpose out of the entire process, and you end up with a terrible playing field.

I didn't mean to suggest that there is only one way of handling things. I was just trying to at least get the other side of the fence perspective. As you pointed out, someone has to (literally) dig through thousands of resumes to find the good ones. If you have someone who can do that, excellent! Unfortunately, that isn't always an option for some companies (or they are not willing to go that route).

Funny HR/recruiting story. Garmin was at one of our career fairs a few years back, and they did not send any actual engineers. Somehow I mention that I have experience doing digital design and verification, and the rep. flat out tells me "We don't do anything digital." Now that's funny because I know for a fact that they do, and the experience I was talking about included some verification of a GPS chip--the kind of thing that Garmin needs to make their products work.

 

[sludgeogre]

I didn't mean to suggest that there is only one way of handling things. I was just trying to at least get the other side of the fence perspective. As you pointed out, someone has to (literally) dig through thousands of resumes to find the good ones. If you have someone who can do that, excellent! Unfortunately, that isn't always an option for some companies (or they are not willing to go that route).

Funny HR/recruiting story. Garmin was at one of our career fairs a few years back, and they did not send any actual engineers. Somehow I mention that I have experience doing digital design and verification, and the rep. flat out tells me "We don't do anything digital." Now that's funny because I know for a fact that they do, and the experience I was talking about included some verification of a GPS chip--the kind of thing that Garmin needs to make their products work.

I understand completely, I guess I was venting off too much of my anger at the way HR is done sometimes. And yes, it is certainly not feasible at many companies to have a crew of people sorting through resumes all day. I just wish that the automated process could have some soul and/or leniency put into it. I don't see why people have to meet ALL of the metrics if they exceed many of the others. Some people just need a chance to do great work and have their full potential realized, but as Jason said, experience can be over-valued.
 
It must have taken a lot of composure to not smirk at that Garmin guy when he said that. I would have had a really awkward smile and probably an awkward laugh to go with it. I can't imagine the kind of crap you have to deal with.

 

[JW Santhem]

Originally Posted by sludgeogre /img/forum/go_quote.gif
.... Some people just need a chance to do great work and have their full potential realized, but as Jason said, experience can be over-valued.
 

 
As someone about to enter the job market, I seriously hope more people think this way
 
On topic of the Garmin example: That was probably quite awkward. The only other explanation could be that they outsource their digital activities to a software firm.

 

[acidtripwow]

The one and only thing I've learned while working is make sure you kiss your boss's ass! It doesn't matter if you're the worst employee ever as long as your boss likes you you're golden. I work with a lot of people that are so bad I can't see how they get dressed in the morning without help. And they make a lot more money than me.:mad:

 

[superjawes]

It must have taken a lot of composure to not smirk at that Garmin guy when he said that. I would have had a really awkward smile and probably an awkward laugh to go with it. I can't imagine the kind of crap you have to deal with.

I kind of just blinked. I went to a school that offers nothing but math, science, and engineering degrees (mostly that last one), so you would think that companies would send people who at least have a basic understanding of the technology involved.

After I walked away, I remembered that the location would have been Nebraska or Kansas, and I decided that I really wasn't missing out. What I find really funny is that Garmin apparently tries to poach talent from another company I used to work for...who was at the same career fair. Pretty easy to tell which company has better talent acquisition.

The one and only thing I've learned while working is make sure you kiss your boss's ass! It doesn't matter if you're the worst employee ever as long as your boss likes you you're golden. I work with a lot of people that are so bad I can't see how they get dressed in the morning without help. And they make a lot more money than me.:mad:

Ever heard of the Dilbert Principle? It's a bit scary when you see it in practice...

 

[Currawong]

The one and only thing I've learned while working is make sure you kiss your boss's ass! It doesn't matter if you're the worst employee ever as long as your boss likes you you're golden. I work with a lot of people that are so bad I can't see how they get dressed in the morning without help. And they make a lot more money than me.

 
This reminds me a lot of some MCSEs I've met who didn't know crap about computers and were earning way more than I ever did. Mind you, they must have hated their jobs.
 
I stopped wearing ties and suits to interviews (except for a couple of jobs where it was the standard dress). If someone wants to hire me because I can wear a suit then I've screwed up and chosen the wrong company to apply for a job at.