[killaHz]

I'm trying to decide which amplification to select (Vali 2 or Magni 2/Uber) as I try to address a problem with my signal chain.

I just got an iMac 4K on Black Friday, which is stellar in all respects except the headphone out, which does not sound as good to me as the one on my old MacBook Pro, which I actually found to be an acceptable driver for my two pairs of headphones -- some modded Fostex T50RPs and some modded Pioneer HDJ 2000s (high end DJ headphones).

Sending that output to my BioScienceGeek CMOY is louder, and the sound is clearer, but the bass on a lot of my music gets quite ragged, like it's halfway to a guitar-amp type of distortion. (The music in question is breakbeat techno, mostly.)

I thought maybe that the double-amping was the culprit, so I got a Modi 2, and ran THAT into the BSG CMOY. The sound is wildly better, but the problems with the bass remain.

So (hopefully) the problem is one that can be remedied with a good headphone amp. (If not, I've just discovered a layer of bass that my old MacBook Pro output never exposed, and which my extremely bass-capable headphones just can't reproduce. Doesn't seem the most likely explanation.)

So that's the problem: my amplification seems incapable of hanging with fast, bassy passages. I have never had a tube amp, but think it would be really cool, in the abstract, to have one on my desk. And ideally, I guess, I'd want to get the amp that gives me the best chance of sticking with that one amp on my desk even as I someday upgrade from the Modi 2. But enough of my listening involves quick/deep bass that keeping those passages clean would be my primary consideration -- I have no issues at all with any of the rest of my sound.

Unless both these choices are badly wrong for my problem, don't bother bringing up other brands. I would like to standardize on Schiit if at all possible.

 

[Ableza]

I'm trying to decide which amplification to select (Vali 2 or Magni 2/Uber) as I try to address a problem with my signal chain.-edit-

If emphasizing the bass is what you want, I recommend you do the following.  Get a Vali 2 amp which will match the footprint of your Modi, sound great, and offers a cool tube sticking out of the top.  Be sure you connect the Modi to either S/PDIF or USB out from you iMac.  And then the most important part of the solution, use playback software with EQ.  Don't try to find an amplifier that will "emphasize bass."  What you want in a good amplifier is flat output.  An amp that emphasizes any part of the spectrum would be a deficient amplifier.  Control what you hear using the correct tool.  The tool you are seeking is EQ.  On my iPhone I like using the Denon playback app with its super powerful EQ and iTunes compatibility.  Find one for your desktop, pay for it, and adjust the sound to your liking after you add an amp to handle the extra output in the low frequencies that you seek.  And enjoy.

 

[LFC_SL]

You are double amping the onboard headphone out. Read up on dacs. Buying endless budget amps is just fiddling around the edges

 

[killaHz]

Yeah, the issue is not "emphasizing" the bass. There's plenty of bass, but it's losing coherence around the edges of the notes. I need something that will stay tight.

 

[killaHz]

You are double amping the onboard headphone out. Read up on dacs. Buying endless budget amps is just fiddling around the edges

You didn't read very carefully. I WAS double amping, and since I thought that might be my problem, I got a Modi 2. Everything sounds awesome now, EXCEPT the ragged bass.

 

[Ableza]

Yeah, the issue is not "emphasizing" the bass. There's plenty of bass, but it's losing coherence around the edges of the notes. I need something that will stay tight.

Get an amp.  Try EQ.

 

[AudioBear]

You didn't read very carefully. I WAS double amping, and since I thought that might be my problem, I got a Modi 2. Everything sounds awesome now, EXCEPT the ragged bass.

I am beginning to suspect the source material.  Do two quick experiments.  The first is pretty easy.  Try some other music which has bass in it.  The second is to try your music on another system or somebody else's. My thinking here is maybe that's what the tracks are supposed to sound like.  Forgive me if you have already heard them elsewhere and know better.
 
The suggestion to equalize down the bass was a good one as well.  Bass draws the most power and your description of ragged edges sounds a bit like clipping and distortion which could be in the amp or could have been in the recorded material.
 
I have to ask are you playing at really loud levels?

 

[killaHz]

I am beginning to suspect the source material.  Do two quick experiments.  The first is pretty easy.  Try some other music which has bass in it.  The second is to try your music on another system or somebody else's. My thinking here is maybe that's what the tracks are supposed to sound like.  Forgive me if you have already heard them elsewhere and know better.

The suggestion to equalize down the bass was a good one as well.  Bass draws the most power and your description of ragged edges sounds a bit like clipping and distortion which could be in the amp or could have been in the recorded material.

I have to ask are you playing at really loud levels?

Not terribly loud, no. We're talking about 10 or 11 o'clock on the CMOY's volume knob. It seems like there should be plenty in reserve.

I went into my EQ settings and found out that at some point, "Bass Booster" had gotten turned on. So going back to a flat EQ seems to fix the problem pretty much, certainly not to the point that it's irritating, anyway, although now I know there are some rumbles down there that I'm just not hearing at all anymore.

Ah, well. Now I need to figure out another reason to rationalize getting a new headphone amplifier.

 

[sheldaze]

Not terribly loud, no. We're talking about 10 or 11 o'clock on the CMOY's volume knob. It seems like there should be plenty in reserve.

I went into my EQ settings and found out that at some point, "Bass Booster" had gotten turned on. So going back to a flat EQ seems to fix the problem pretty much, certainly not to the point that it's irritating, anyway, although now I know there are some rumbles down there that I'm just not hearing at all anymore.

Ah, well. Now I need to figure out another reason to rationalize getting a new headphone amplifier.

How about Vali 2 sounds really good. And it's a cheap way to start to experiment with tubes - if you don't like it, you have incurred only a small expense above the cost of a Magni 2 Uber and you'll have a headphone amplifier that still sounds quite good in its default configuration with a number of different headphones 

 

[killaHz]

How about Vali 2 sounds really good. And it's a cheap way to start to experiment with tubes - if you don't like it, you have incurred only a small expense above the cost of a Magni 2 Uber and you'll have a headphone amplifier that still sounds quite good in its default configuration with a number of different headphones 

Yeah, that might work.

 

[valiant66]

 

How about Vali 2 sounds really good. And it's a cheap way to start to experiment with tubes - if you don't like it, you have incurred only a small expense above the cost of a Magni 2 Uber and you'll have a headphone amplifier that still sounds quite good in its default configuration with a number of different headphones 

Yeah, that might work.

 
I might counter that if you are trying to get deep, accurate, loud bass you might prefer solid state. As AudioBear mentioned, bass draws the most power. From Schiit's website the Vali 2 puts out 1,300 milliwatts into 16 ohms (1.3 watts) whereas the Magni 2 puts out 1.8 watts (1,800 mW) and the Magni 2 Uber puts out 2.1 W (2,100 mW).
 
It's not that you want something that plays "louder", you want something that has more control, more power in reserve, when those big hits come along at the volume you already listen to. That way the amp has the headroom to deliver the power-hungry notes without any noticeable sag.
 
For your preferred music genre I really think a Magni will do you more good than a Vali (unless you're craving the euphonic effect valves provide).

 

[tonykaz]

Mr.Ableza and Matthew420,
 
Right there, single-handedly, you've saved Matthew420 countless financial expenditures in Amp & Headphone upgrading.  Even Tyll, in his latest headphone review, Eq'd the Dharma headphone to correct it to where it's competitive with the finest out there.  I'll bet $50 that the new Vali 2 will and can perform as an End-Game Amp ( it's designs are the result of careful considerations and experience ).
 
Manufacturers of Electronics & Headphones don't want your little secret adopted by the vast "buying" hobbyists ( except the Asians who regularly include Eq in their stuff ), it's bad to very bad for Impulse buying.  
 
Matthew can have a quick look at Tyll's measured response curves for those hundreds of popular headphones and correct with his little Eq., viola he's maxed out the capability of his transducers, he can then proceed to make informed decisions on future purchases.  
 
A person can get "FREE" hearing evaluations from Hearing Aid Retailers, further informing himself on correct home Eq. adjustment for his headphone use.  
 
Tony in Michigan
 
ps.  Even Costco offer hearing evaluations 

 

[jimmers]

Ah, well. Now I need to figure out another reason to rationalize getting a new headphone amplifier.

To match your Modi?
 
Your cMoy was obviously close to it's limit if it was overloading on boosted bass, it's only a signal level op-amp in a tin can after all 

 

[tonykaz]

To Matthew420,
 
CMOY is and always has been a beginner's amp, sort of like training wheels.   You'll still be able to sell it on Ebay!   
 
Any of the Schiit Designs will please you, your ears, your headphones and your budget, they're all Audiophile level performers. ( under $350 there is no competition ).
 
About the $700 level is where other outfits stuff starts, going to $5,000 price levels.  
 
Tony in Michigan

 

[aamer23]

i trust the Schiits as the Bifrost has been excellent and each upgrade was great and the multibit upgrade is outstanding so i would buy what ever i needed without any concern on how well it will work at what ever budget i have