For the cost they are a nice option to have available. I am not familiar with any other line of tube equipment from any company that ever produced or even considered something like the LISST.
I do not do a lot with solid state so at the time it seemed to me I would be taking a perfectly good tube device and turning it into solid state lol. I know that is probably convoluted logic, but it was my logic and I will not deny it.
Curiosity got to me though as far as the LISST's ability to work in other amps so a couple of us decided to be guinea pigs and try them in amps I knew I could repair in case they were not compatible. If the V2 is a better version of the OG, I would love to see how it stacks up with tubes just for schiits and giggles.
It might take a bit more than a little... after replacing the pair of mono-block Vidars in my system with the Tyrs, I had to move my B&Ws out nearly a foot from the wall, and widen their placement by 7" to get the lower mid-bass right. The Tyrs added so much speaker control in the bass / lower mid-bass region that it simply became overpowering - even with my corner bass traps in-place. And - even more impressive - while I know that the B&W's stated minus 3db point of 24Hz is theoretical in anything but a anechoic chamber - the Tyrs have solidified the low bass in my system to the point that I no longer feel that I need a subwoofer...
)I never saw it that way. I saw as a tube saver as the OG did not shut down the tube stage when in in a different mode as they remained powered. No claim of actual knowledge.The fact that Schiit sold them as "tube-options" is completely understandable, and that they plug into tube sockets was out of necessity.
But both of those points are what killed that product, if you ask me, because this created a certain set of expectations that missed the point of what those LISST are.
I admire Jason's marketing skills, but this one time, a product failed not because it wasn't a good product, but because the marketing kinda set it up for failure.
LISST kind of look like tubes, and they were sold as something like a tube, but they aren't tubes. Maybe I'm wrong with this and LISST (v1) existed only because Jason explicitly wanted to design a solid-state circuit that sounded as close to a tube as possible. If that's the case, then the marketing was on point and the product failed on its own merit.
But here's how I see LISST (v1):
They aren't tubes. And they're not meant to replace them. They're also not supposed to sound exactly like them. Because why would they?! They aren't tubes! If you want tube sound, buy tubes! *
They also don't sound like your usual solid-state. They're not supposed to sound like your usual solid-state, either. And why should they?! If you want that classic solid-state sound, buy a solid-state (pre-)amp!
I see LISST as a third product category.
They offer a third kind of sound that sits in between solid-state and tubes. They're dead-quiet, they don't suffer from microphonics, they're not nearly as susceptible to RF interference as tubes are, their performance characteristics remain stable even over a long time of use, there's no need for matching, and they cost just a fraction of what a good tube costs.
They also sound more pleasant than solid-state. They're warmer, not as harsh; there's no hint of that "pins and needles" level of detail that I know a lot of people love about solid-state, but that I can't stand. They also offer a much fuller bass response and a much richer holographic soundstage than almost all of the solid-state (pre-)amps that I've listened to.
To me, they are in almost every regard a superior product to both, solid-state and tubes. They sit in a third, separate category for me. And I truly believe that if they had been marketed as such, they would have been more successful. Their product page didn't explicitly state that you should look at them as tubes, of course, but it certainly didn't try to establish them as a (founding) member of that third category either. The fact that they (by necessity) looked like tubes and dropped into tube sockets didn't help with this misconception, either. And so people bought them expecting them to be more or less exactly like tubes – and were (understandably) disappointed that they weren't.
LISST are no tubes. And they aren't solid-state. (Technically, they are, of course. But I'm talking sound profile here.) They sit in their own little corner. And if they can be marketed as such, I think they will turn into one of Schiit's most successful products. Especially if they, some day, can come in flavors. Then you could buy a Schiit (pre-)amp that comes with a proprietary LISST socket that can be licensed by third party LISST makers, and you roll your own sound, much as you do today with tubes, but with none of the "downsides" (for me) of real tubes, but a much more euphonic sound and oodles more flexibility than you get from classic solid-state.
* Granted, buying tubes gets more difficult with time. It's sad that that's what it took to get LISST a second shot in the market. Also: More LISST for the likes like me means more tubes left on the market for you. Win-win.
Yes, sort of. My bass went from somewhat anemic to just-the-way-I-like-it. No moving of speakers was necessary in my case.ArmchairPhilosopher experienced the same revelations, if I can be so bold as to speak on his behalf (but I don't think that he had to move his speakers
Mhm.
Yep. I've had this particular "problem" for quite some time now with my headphone rig, a Gumby into Lokius into Mjolnir 2 with LISST into (usually) the dual-magnet version of GoldPlanar GL2000. (The most amazing sounding headphones I own, and sadly enough — unless GoldPlanar gets it's act together with their horrendous quality control — something I would never recommend to anyone to actually buy.)
+1
I experienced the same thing going from Vidars to Trys. First change was to turn down the sub.It might take a bit more than a little... after replacing the pair of mono-block Vidars in my system with the Tyrs, I had to move my B&Ws out nearly a foot from the wall, and widen their placement by 7" to get the lower mid-bass right. The Tyrs added so much speaker control in the bass / lower mid-bass region that it simply became overpowering - even with my corner bass traps in-place. And - even more impressive - while I know that the B&W's stated minus 3db point of 24Hz is theoretical in anything but a anechoic chamber - the Tyrs have solidified the low bass in my system to the point that I no longer feel that I need a subwoofer...
I _still_ haven't switched Loki Max into the circuit... I will do that when I have some serious time to listen and adjust. But I had to get that "boom" out physically before I applied equalization, and it involved a really big re-staging of my loudspeakers. Yeah, ok, maybe they were in the wrong locations before. But Tyr's iron-fisted woofer control made so much difference in the overall sound that I had to reconsider my speaker placement.
Seriously. I'm not exaggerating. ArmchairPhilosopher experienced the same revelations, if I can be so bold as to speak on his behalf (but I don't think that he had to move his speakers
Also, my overall stereo image is dramatically wider and deeper. Individual instruments in a mix now stand alone and speak clearly; you can follow a single musician's playing in nearly every song. It's pretty amazing.
What I have noticed:
Anyway, YMMV. Your system looks awesome, @Mumbles06. Don't be shy moving those speakers! <g>
- good recordings sound really good; the detail is astounding, and depth, instrument placement and soundstage width are jaw-droppingly good
- bad recordings sound pretty damned bad... maybe even worse than before
- I am amazed at how well recorded many classic rock songs are... the Doobies, the Stones, the Beatles, the Eagles. And many more.
- I am appalled by how highly compressed and nasty some very recent hit music is... and they shall go "24-carat Nameless", because who am I to judge?
Not to my ears. Give them five or so minutes for the caps to fully charge and you should be golden.
What have you compared those fynn to (speaker wise)? I’m a pretty big fan of new brands formed by known folks with audio pedigree . I my self have the q acoustics concept 500 in my living. I considered getting the fynn bookshelf for my home office but couldnt try them anywhere in my country.Just returned from business trip and hooked up my Tyr's. First impressions? Mixed. I'm hoping they improve with burn in.
I went from a single vidar into my Fyne 502s to the Tyr monos. Immediately I noticed much tighter and more pronounced bass. Then my wife and I noticed more detailed treble, especially snares and cymbals. But as we both smiled and continued to listen to a smattering of styles from Weezer, Tool, Beatles, Norah Jones, Alabama Shakes, Nicki Minaj, Adele, Sinatra, Nine Inch Nails, Qotsa, Pink Floyd, and countless others we noticed a negative. There is better, more precise treble and bass. But what happened to my wall of guitars? It became recessed behind snare and cymbal hits. It sounds V shaped right now, and I much prefer a nice W.
I've only had them on for 2 hours, hopefully this gets better with burn in. I have a loki mini in my turntable signal chain that I could move into the equation, but everything from my gumby forward is balanced right now, and I'm not really wanting to rewire for SE or drop another 1500 on a loki max.
Anybody else notice this?
If it is wrong that Finnegan is one of my favorite parts about this thread then I don't want to be right.If some of you are still interested in knowing how corner splines are done, PM me and I will try to get a few pics this weekend. I just finished basic construction with all apertures in place. Finnegan is helping per usual.
I NEED to know how your Maggies sound on those Tyrs. Don’t leave me hanging!The Tyrs have been installed in place of the Vidars. I’ll wait a while to push them, but initially, they are running much cooler than Vidars into the Maggies.
The particle board rack lives on… just had to add a reinforced shelf for the extra weight.
Missed opportunity to put the cat in the box for the pic..If some of you are still interested in knowing how corner splines are done, PM me and I will try to get a few pics this weekend. I just finished basic construction with all apertures in place. Finnegan is helping per usual.
