[filthy mechanical]

For the record: the bottom-mounted dip switches are not because we hate you.

At least that is better than the companies I deal with at work, some of the stuff they do must because they are evil.

 

[KaiFi]

And I'm not sure if you want a more expensive phono preamp from us

I do!

I love the Mani as an affordable preamp that punches above its price range, but I would love a high-end Schiit phono preamp, to compete with say, the iPhono 3. I'd pay for that for sure.

 

[tincanear]

for improved performance, eliminate the (RCA) jacks and interconnect between the headshell / tonearm leads and the pre-amp (with a mini 4-pin connector as the input socket). As the leadwires are fragile, affix the preamp's position relative to the tonearm base to protect / strain relief the leadwires.

 

[macdonjh]

For the record: the bottom-mounted dip switches are not because we hate you. It's because they are the least expensive, lowest noise way to switch gain stages/loading/etc.

When you get to a device with 100-1000x gain (the typical headphone amp is 1-5x, for comparison), noise is an issue. So running traces around the board (like, to front-mounted switches) is not a wonderful idea if you're looking to maximize performance. And when you usually set the switches once (or zeroce, if you're using an MM cartridge and get a Mani 2), then why stress about it?

Now, if you had unlimited money, sure, you could put relays everywhere and switch locally with front-mounted switches. Heck, you could manage everything with a microprocessor. Heck, you could even go full bonkers and have a "calibration mode" where you play a test record and the preamp sets the correct gain and loading by itself!

But all of the above takes money.

As in, say, a phono preamp with balanced outs, discrete stages, and front-mounted switches, plus the management to make sure it didn't go boom when you changed the switches when the product was on, that's gonna be $400-500 in Schiitconomy Bucks. And if you're talking about something with 256 options for loading and auto-setup, that might be in the four figures in those same bucks.

And I'm not sure if you want a more expensive phono preamp from us (and, perhaps more importantly, I'm not sure we're the company to build and support such a device.)

Not fishing for comments, just saying...this is a price/performance issue at its most pointed.

Oh my gosh, if I'd known phono preamps were akin to BBQ I wouldn't have said anything. For the record, I was joking (not that anyone here missed that). I have no quibbles with the design decisions made for in designing an inexpensive phono preamp, especially if it sounds good. For the record, redux, I'll never know: I don't have any vinyl.

 

[bcowen]

Oh my gosh, if I'd known phono preamps were akin to BBQ I wouldn't have said anything. For the record, I was joking (not that anyone here missed that). I have no quibbles with the design decisions made for in designing an inexpensive phono preamp, especially if it sounds good. For the record, redux, I'll never know: I don't have any vinyl.

Probably a wise choice as they would all just melt into blobs in the Texas summer. Happened to @Ripper2860 's extensive Spandau Ballet collection on 8-track just this last summer, sadly.

 

[Roy G. Biv]

Oh my gosh, if I'd known phono preamps were akin to BBQ I wouldn't have said anything. For the record, I was joking (not that anyone here missed that). I have no quibbles with the design decisions made for in designing an inexpensive phono preamp, especially if it sounds good. For the record, redux, I'll never know: I don't have any vinyl.

For the record, I got the joke. It took something like a day and a half, but I did get it.

 

[Ripper2860]

And if I might add: many value-priced phono stages give you no loading adjustments at all. If some consider bottom mounted switches to be a pain, there are options to avoid switches -- and adjustment -- altogether. Further, there are many very expensive phono stages that don't make adjustment very easy. I remember the Audio Research Reference phono that I had for a short time to audition. $6500 in 1999. Resistive and capacitive loading were 'adjusted' by soldering a couple pins to a resistor (or capacitor) and plugging them into an internal DIP socket (after removing 20 screws to get the top cover off). The Art Audio preamp in my big rig has a built-in phono stage with a rear-mounted rotary switch for selecting 6 discrete resistive values. But no capacitive load switching -- that requires soldering a couple capacitors in place. Just a couple examples out of many.

Personally, I think Schiit's implementation here is exemplary. Lowest cost and lowest noise approach to offering tuning capabilities that don't often exist in a product at this price level. And mounted in the most efficient manner possible for something that will very rarely need adjusted anyway.

My only desire would be to have the rumble filter switchable via the front or rear. The other stuff is pretty much set and forget in my opinion and is just fine on the bottom. The rumble filter is something I like to use on occasion as needed. That's the one setting I could see myself enabling and disabling depending on the LP condition and having to flip the unit over and fumble with a teeny-tiny dip switch is overly tedious. Don't get me wrong, I will likely get a Mani 2 anyway and likely just leave he rumble filter at 6dB, but I would have preferred to be able to defeat and enable more easily, like my Cambridge Audio CP-2 which has a rear panel switch. (And yes, I know it has no cartridge loading and resistance settings.)

My PS Audio PS III phono stage has resistive and capacitance setting front toggles (no rumble filter) so I guess that makes it a superior phono stage to the Art Audio, at least with MM cartridges.

 

[EricDH]

What a confusing mess:

1. He says the wall-wort makes noise
2. He says the Mani 2 scores near the top of all phono stages for s/n and then suggests his test is not completely accurate
3. He complains about the switches on the bottom (he always bitches about Schiit design, but never about any Chinese brand design aspects)
4. He recommends it, but never listened to it.

Is this a review or someone tinkering with test equipment and calling it "science"?

Beware of the measurebators.

 

[bcowen]

My PS Audio PS III phono stage has resistive and capacitance setting front toggles (no rumble filter) so I guess that makes it a superior phono stage to the Art Audio, at least with MM cartridges.

No tubes? Not superior.

And if you'd isolate that Pro-Ject properly you'd have no need for a rumble filter. Enrollment for summer class tutorials begins next week, just as a heads-up.

 

[Plautus001]

Beware of the measurebators.

 

[Ripper2860]

No tubes? Not superior.

And if you'd isolate that Pro-Ject properly you'd have no need for a rumble filter. Enrollment for summer class tutorials begins next week, just as a heads-up.

Don't get me started on my Pro-ject turntable. No one should have to go through all the effort required to isolate the motor vibrations from the plinth and even traveling via the belt to the sub-platter. I should have just spent a bit more $$$, gotten a Rega P3 and saved time and aggravation.

 

[433521]

For the record: the bottom-mounted dip switches are not because we hate you. It's because they are the least expensive, lowest noise way to switch gain stages/loading/etc.

When you get to a device with 100-1000x gain (the typical headphone amp is 1-5x, for comparison), noise is an issue. So running traces around the board (like, to front-mounted switches) is not a wonderful idea if you're looking to maximize performance. And when you usually set the switches once (or zeroce, if you're using an MM cartridge and get a Mani 2), then why stress about it?

Now, if you had unlimited money, sure, you could put relays everywhere and switch locally with front-mounted switches. Heck, you could manage everything with a microprocessor. Heck, you could even go full bonkers and have a "calibration mode" where you play a test record and the preamp sets the correct gain and loading by itself!

But all of the above takes money.

As in, say, a phono preamp with balanced outs, discrete stages, and front-mounted switches, plus the management to make sure it didn't go boom when you changed the switches when the product was on, that's gonna be $400-500 in Schiitconomy Bucks. And if you're talking about something with 256 options for loading and auto-setup, that might be in the four figures in those same bucks.

And I'm not sure if you want a more expensive phono preamp from us (and, perhaps more importantly, I'm not sure we're the company to build and support such a device.)

Not fishing for comments, just saying...this is a price/performance issue at its most pointed.

You do know dip switches are the norm on high end stuff? Make the box fanicier, sell it under another name with a slightly changed design you could get 1k easy.

 

[433521]

my $0.04

re Bal vs SE OTL tube amplifiers:
tubes have intrinsically high output impedance (several k ohms for small signal tubes), and use feedback to lower the closed-loop impedance to allow for driving of headphones. a balanced output stage can be thought of as two SE stages, one for the negative output wire, and a second one for the positive output wire, with output impedance being twice that of single SE stage. so going balanced out means FOUR tubes / tube sections (2 for each output phase) to get the same output impedance. Lots of $2K and up well-regarded all-tube OTL HP amps out there, and all SE (not balanced).

re Mani dip switches:
yes, DIP switches are the shortest signal path length solutions to allow for user selection of the cartridge loading. for those that have multiple cartridges and tonearms, likely the cartridges (and perhaps just the headshell-tonearm wires themselves) cost more than a Mani 2. just get multiple Mani 2's and preset them for each cartridge. On those MC and other lower output cartridges, if the full-scale signal is a half a millivolt, then microvolts are audible.

Perhaps a Mani 2 Uber with front panel switches to control relays for the low-cut filters (0dB bypass / 12 passive / 24dB active filter slopes)?

A used (discontinued) Mjolnir 2 is likely your only chance to get balanced tubes from Schiit until Mjolnir 3 makes it's inspiration known.

I don't see where they could cut prices to get the price to even $1k without serious loss of fidelity and why? For balanced? If you need balanced that badly ... could there be a way for Schiit to design mono balanced Vali and buy two?

 

[433521]

He had already prepared his photoshopped plots before receiving the actual unit?

He received a Mani from Schiit, as Schiit often sends Amir units to test.

 

[DougD]

A used (discontinued) Mjolnir 2 is likely your only chance to get balanced tubes from Schiit until Mjolnir 3 makes it's inspiration known.

I don't see where they could cut prices to get the price to even $1k without serious loss of fidelity and why? For balanced? If you need balanced that badly ... could there be a way for Schiit to design mono balanced Vali and buy two?

Or consider a Freya+ pre-amp, which allows one to put some degree of tubey-ness into any downstream amp you happen to have, balanced or single-ended, or to bypass the tube gain with the push of a button. (On the unit itself, or the remote.)