[Ripper2860]

Isn't it a bit of a moot point given his amp is a Valhalla 2, which is single-ended only?

 

[macdonjh]

To expound on ORT's interest in all things balanced, while I understand balanced hardware, what's the benefit in having balanced headphones? Better sound and separation, plus a lower noise floor? And with the headphones, what type of connection do they require? A single connection or L/R connections? A 1/4" plug or something else?

To me, the benefit of a balanced connection for the ZMF Atticus manifested itself in overall livelier sound. Bass had more slam, the drivers sounded like they were controlled by the amp more completely, which I guess is another way of saying the Atticus were more articulate with a balanced connection to the amplifier. I don't know why this would be, electrically speaking. Perhaps fully separating the negative conductors at the amplifier end prevents back EMF from one ear phone driver from affecting the response of the other ear phone driver? I don't think you get common-mode noise rejection like you do in the upstream electronics, but of course, I could be wrong. I didn't notice an expanded sound stage, but then I rarely listen for sound stage when listening to head phones.

As to connections, yes, there are different physical connectors for balanced and single ended head phones.

The Stax I have use +/- wires for left and right, just like speakers (for the energizer, not the head phones themselves). I think some people did the same thing with the original HiFiMAN HE-6 as well (for the actual head phones).

For my HE-500 and the Atticus (when I had them) I use a 4-pin XLR connector. The Mjolnir also accepts dual 3-pin XLR connectors, one for left the other for right. I think the 3-pin XLR pin-out is usually 1- negative, 2- positive, 3- shield or jumpered to 1 (but I'm not sure). In the IEM world there are 2.5mm TRRS, 3.5mm TRRS and 4.4mm TRRRS (Pentaconn). It took a long time, but I finally got an explanation as to why there's a benefit to the 5-conductor Pentaconn connector: independent ground. That was actually "a thing" with my A&K AK70 MK II DAP. I needed a special cable made when I connected its head phone output to my Mjolnir because unless the 2.5mm TRRS balanced output was jumpered to the the ground found in the 3.5mm TRS output there was terrible hum. The independent ground (a 5th conductor, not provided by Bruce Willis) solved the hum problem. A&K used to sell a $250 "magic brick" which plugged into both the 2.5mm and 3.5mm jacks simultaneously and grounded the 2.5mm output to the 3.5mm ground/ common conductor.

For "regular" headphones there are 1/4" / 6.35mm TRS and 3.5mm TRS "phono plugs).

 

[macdonjh]

Isn't it a bit of a moot point given his amp is a Valhalla 2, which is single-ended only?

Not if he's specifically asking about a balanced connection for his head phones to an amplifier. If he's considering replacing his head phone amp because he hears a balanced head phone connection is magical in some way. Perhaps he's considering trying a Jotunheim, or Magnius? Maybe he's hopeful a Mjolnir II will come up in B-stock (Mjolnir, we hardly knew ye, you were taken too soon aside: obviously the lament of an owner).

Note; I used my Mjolnir with my Atticus both with the single ended analog inputs, and then with the balanced analog inputs. Same with my HE-500. Most recently I've used the USB input to my Bifrost and Gungnir then single ended analog to my Mjolnir. I didn't hear any difference when using the balanced input with my DAP, other than the hum was gone when I got that cable made. Even so, single ended input but balanced out to the head phones made a difference for the Atticus.

 

[Ripper2860]

Gotcha. At this point I do not believe he's mentioned wanting another amp, but given the fact he's ordered a Modius DAC and it has balanced out, it does leave the door open for a future balanced amp purchase. ORT has always been enamored with VH2 and tubes a-glowing, so it'll be interesting to see him make the move to the dark-side (SS) to get balanced DAC in and HP out. Magnius seems to be one heck of a deal and a good way to give balanced a whirl -- at least between DAC and Amp and DAC/Amp/HP if his HPs support a balanced connection. Jot 2 would be even better!!

Side note: I'll be trying my HFM Arya on my Ragnarok v1 via balanced very soon (waiting on a balanced cable). Tried balanced with HD6XX and I could really tell much of a diff, but with power hungry Planars I suspect the difference between Balanced and SE will be notable.

Side note 2: Yeah. A MJ2 in B stock would be the best of both -- tubes and balanced. I suspect that'll be like winning the lottery, however!!

 

[CarlosAudio51]

Re: balanced tube amps

Does anybody know if Jason's upcoming 10-tube amp (Folkvangr???) will be balanced?

It would fit the lineup, given that they no longer have a balanced tube (or hybrid) amp.

 

[tincanear]

For planars and other low-impedance headphones using a TRS connector (2.5mm, 3.5mm, 6.35mm =1/4"), it is important for the headphone cable to be of "4-wire" construction and have separate ground wires running to each driver and terminating right at the TRS connector. otherwise the common ground (negative) return lead impedance can cause out-of-phase crosstalk between the channels. Higher impedance cans (e.g. 300 and 600 ohm units) should have less sensitivity to this issue (technically its still there but reduced in magnitude so that it becomes less audible or perhaps inaudible).

 

[tincanear]

Re: balanced tube amps

Does anybody know if Jason's upcoming 10-tube amp (Folkvangr???) will be balanced?

It would fit the lineup, given that they no longer have a balanced tube (or hybrid) amp.

Folkvangr is single ended only. being an all-tube OTL design, a balanced version would need 4x the output tubes (4x 6N1P, 32x 6N6P) to have the same output impedance (not the same as recommended load impedance).

presumably similar gain stage topology to Valhalla 2, but a beefier output stage (and some additional analog tricks for biasing) for better performance into low and medium impedance headphones (including some planars which are not a good match for Valhalla / Valhalla 2)

 

[tincanear]

To me, the benefit of a balanced connection for the ZMF Atticus manifested itself in overall livelier sound. Bass had more slam, the drivers sounded like they were controlled by the amp more completely, which I guess is another way of saying the Atticus were more articulate with a balanced connection to the amplifier. I don't know why this would be, electrically speaking. Perhaps fully separating the negative conductors at the amplifier end prevents back EMF from one ear phone driver from affecting the response of the other ear phone driver? I don't think you get common-mode noise rejection like you do in the upstream electronics, but of course, I could be wrong. I didn't notice an expanded sound stage, but then I rarely listen for sound stage when listening to head phones.

As to connections, yes, there are different physical connectors for balanced and single ended head phones.

The Stax I have use +/- wires for left and right, just like speakers (for the energizer, not the head phones themselves). I think some people did the same thing with the original HiFiMAN HE-6 as well (for the actual head phones).

For my HE-500 and the Atticus (when I had them) I use a 4-pin XLR connector. The Mjolnir also accepts dual 3-pin XLR connectors, one for left the other for right. I think the 3-pin XLR pin-out is usually 1- negative, 2- positive, 3- shield or jumpered to 1 (but I'm not sure). In the IEM world there are 2.5mm TRRS, 3.5mm TRRS and 4.4mm TRRRS (Pentaconn). It took a long time, but I finally got an explanation as to why there's a benefit to the 5-conductor Pentaconn connector: independent ground. That was actually "a thing" with my A&K AK70 MK II DAP. I needed a special cable made when I connected its head phone output to my Mjolnir because unless the 2.5mm TRRS balanced output was jumpered to the the ground found in the 3.5mm TRS output there was terrible hum. The independent ground (a 5th conductor, not provided by Bruce Willis) solved the hum problem. A&K used to sell a $250 "magic brick" which plugged into both the 2.5mm and 3.5mm jacks simultaneously and grounded the 2.5mm output to the 3.5mm ground/ common conductor.

For "regular" headphones there are 1/4" / 6.35mm TRS and 3.5mm TRS "phono plugs).

3-pin XLR is pin 1 = gnd; pin 2 = +out, pin 3 = -out. pins 1 and 3 should not be jumpered together, else bad stuff may happen.

 

[EricDH]

Buying Schiit products is like eating pistachios, you can't stop even though you know you should. After the IEMagni arrived I decided to replace my work Modi 2 Uber with a Modi 3+, no specific reason, mostly curious about Unison USB. It does allow me to take the Wyrd out of the chain and now I have a backup Wyrd > Modi 2 Uber > Magni in case I should ever need one, or perhaps i can convince my wife to replace her Fulla 2 with the stack. (Took a year to get her to use that, primarily to not wanting 'clutter' on the desk top.)

For in-stock items, Schiit is pretty impressive, from Texas to CT:

IEMagni, ordered 5/13 10:45 AM, at the PO Box at 8:39 AM on 5/17 (3 days, 22 hours)
Modi 3+, ordered 5/18 11:48 AM, at the PO Box 7:59 on 5/21 (2 days, 21 hours)

Still waiting on a BiFrost 2 ordered on 4/23.

For someone like you, the current "out of stock"/"ships in 6 weeks" issues at Schiit must have an almost therapeutic effect

 

[Timster]

Up next. Heavy Seas' Peg Leg Imperial Stout.

Just looked that one up, thanks for the tip. Need to find me some.
Have you tried Ballast Point Brewing "Victory at Sea"?

 

[macdonjh]

3-pin XLR is pin 1 = gnd; pin 2 = +out, pin 3 = -out. pins 1 and 3 should not be jumpered together, else bad stuff may happen.

Thanks for that. I should have just looked it up before posting, but I wanted to test my memory. I guess I'm not surprised I failed.

 

[Ripper2860]

Just looked that one up, thanks for the tip. Need to find me some.
Have you tried Ballast Point Brewing "Victory at Sea"?

I have not, but it is most certainly on my list now!! Thanks!

 

[45longcolt]

"Always be yourself.
Unless you can be Batman.
Then, always be Batman."

Saw that on a sign in a shop window. Seems appropriate here.

 

[ghfiii]

Who was your first Batman?

Adam West

Who is your favorite Batman?

Christian Bale

Griff

PS: opinion on Robert Pattinson as the bat man...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Ripper2860]

+1 for Christian Bale

Gotta say that Michael Keaton was a pretty darn good Batman, as well.