[Mach3]

Haha reading chapter 29 just made my Friday that much better. Funny has hell.

 

[atubbs]

  One thing I kinda hate about a company like schiit, is that when you buy something like an asgard, and you see how good it is (for me, i started laughing like a mad man with tear in my eyes the first time I used it at home with my favorite stuff), you look at the more expensive gear and think to yourself "How good can that be?" and immediately after the next thought is "Should I start saving for that?" .

 
Not to be pedantic, but I have a hard time assigning Schiit the blame in this case. I think the case here is more "welcome to the audio gear/upgrade-itis/dragon chasing bug." That Schiit has well-defined price tranches makes it easy to climb within their ladder entirely, but this is the dangerous aspect associated with the entire (if not many other similar materialistic endeavors) hobby.
 
 
if you're careful and thorough 1) you can usually get decent correlation between what you spend and what you get 2) you will almost always experience diminishing marginal returns. The sticky thing is that there are certain things that operate on step functions (opamp vs discrete circuits, delta-sigma reference design versus fpga/r2r/nos/unicorn tears) on the cost/price side; some of them are mild differences (won't necessarily say improvements), some represent a diminished marginal improvement but the chasm between them and the previous product are material in both sound and cost. It's a nasty thing.
 
I'm sure this sentiment has been repeated a thousand times on these forums (and elsewhere), but the secret here is to realize that the endgame is infinite. There will always be a newer, better, more expensive, or different-in-a-novel product either on one's wish list or coming onto the market. Going from a 1990 Plymouth to a Subaru was a life-changing difference, but that doesn't stop me from wanting a Porsche, which wouldn't stop me from wanting a Ferrari. Presumably once in that sort of rarified air, the desire then transfers to the newer special-edition Ferraris or even more esoteric avenues. The metaphor gets strained, but the point remains: There will always be something better (or, more accurately, something you want that you don't have). There's a decent chance you'll experience regret or remorse with the purchases you do make.
 
So, I usually say things like "if you're happy with how it sounds now, delete your head-fi account, block it on the router, and go spend some more time listening to it and forget you ever thought about upgrading again!" But, that won't work. And the doubts won't go away.
 
What I have found interesting is bringing other people in to share. I get a kick when somebody listens to some music with me and reactions like "oh, now I get why you're into this" start popping up. It doesn't entirely attenuate the dragon chasing, but it reminds you how you got where you are and that there's an incredible amount of joy capability present in the current systems and software. Have seen (and will admit having fallen victim to) all too often to scenarios where a particular piece of gear has listening lifetime measured in hours or a small handful of days before being sold or traded in! That piece may have been the best-sounding component of its type ever present in a particular system but it was swiftly replaced yet again before ever really delivering any sort of value or payback. 
 
 
Anyhow, try the new stuff, either yourself or borrowed, or at a jam or meet or show. Get a sense of what's out there, but do everything you can not to get sucked into this particular rabbit hole. There's no end to it.

 

[reddog]

I generally hate football analogies, still, operations is kinda like the offensive line.  No one ever knows their names, yet without them, that famous quarterback would be strawberry jam...

+1 What he said.

 

[Koolpep]

Not to be pedantic, but I have a hard time assigning Schiit the blame in this case. I think the case here is more "welcome to the audio gear/upgrade-itis/dragon chasing bug." That Schiit has well-defined price tranches makes it easy to climb within their ladder entirely, but this is the dangerous aspect associated with the entire (if not many other similar materialistic endeavors) hobby.


if you're careful and thorough 1) you can usually get decent correlation between what you spend and what you get 2) you will almost always experience diminishing marginal returns. The sticky thing is that there are certain things that operate on step functions (opamp vs discrete circuits, delta-sigma reference design versus fpga/r2r/nos/unicorn tears) on the cost/price side; some of them are mild differences (won't necessarily say improvements), some represent a diminished marginal improvement but the chasm between them and the previous product are material in both sound and cost. It's a nasty thing.

I'm sure this sentiment has been repeated a thousand times on these forums (and elsewhere), but the secret here is to realize that the endgame is infinite. There will always be a newer, better, more expensive, or different-in-a-novel product either on one's wish list or coming onto the market. Going from a 1990 Plymouth to a Subaru was a life-changing difference, but that doesn't stop me from wanting a Porsche, which wouldn't stop me from wanting a Ferrari. Presumably once in that sort of rarified air, the desire then transfers to the newer special-edition Ferraris or even more esoteric avenues. The metaphor gets strained, but the point remains: There will always be something better (or, more accurately, something you want that you don't have). There's a decent chance you'll experience regret or remorse with the purchases you do make.

So, I usually say things like "if you're happy with how it sounds now, delete your head-fi account, block it on the router, and go spend some more time listening to it and forget you ever thought about upgrading again!" But, that won't work. And the doubts won't go away.

What I have found interesting is bringing other people in to share. I get a kick when somebody listens to some music with me and reactions like "oh, now I get why you're into this" start popping up. It doesn't entirely attenuate the dragon chasing, but it reminds you how you got where you are and that there's an incredible amount of joy capability present in the current systems and software. Have seen (and will admit having fallen victim to) all too often to scenarios where a particular piece of gear has listening lifetime measured in hours or a small handful of days before being sold or traded in! That piece may have been the best-sounding component of its type ever present in a particular system but it was swiftly replaced yet again before ever really delivering any sort of value or payback. 


Anyhow, try the new stuff, either yourself or borrowed, or at a jam or meet or show. Get a sense of what's out there, but do everything you can not to get sucked into this particular rabbit hole. There's no end to it.

Sir, you are 100% right. I just got a new headphone, probably number 25 or so in my collection. It's a crazy hobby. However for the first time I feel that I have reached my personal equilibrium where I am content with what I have. The same happened when I actually bought a Porsche, I drove it, tracked it (am a hobby racer), joined the club, amazing, down to earth, lovely people there, am happy and content. Because I have yet to expose the limits of the car, my personal limits as a driver are lower than my cars...but I am getting close. Can't imagine driving any other car brand anymore and when I do, I really miss the driving pleasure I get from a Porsche. You just feel the road and what the car is up to at any moment, and the sound of that flat six with the sports exhaust is still giving me shivers. Yes I sure as hell want a GT3 RS or a Turbo S but it's not in my budget. And I think there lies the problem with the personal audio hobby, you don't have to stretch yourself too much in order to get the next best thing. It's all relatively affordable at first. I listened to a lot of summit-fi cans and while I really like what I hear, back home with my 650/T90 and crack I am happy again with what I have....for now.

I think we are chasing the goose bumps of what you described, the first time you listen to an old song and you get goosebumps. After a few days the goosebumps go away when you listen to the song with the new gear and you are looking for the next goosebumps inducing purchase.

Then, you remind yourself that you are in this hobby because you love music, I have to remind myself quite often, it's not the gear, it's the music I love. Yes, I want it to sound as good as possible, but in the end, it's the songs.... I am able to squash the upgrade bug 9 out of 10 times, thankfully but sometimes it still bites me....

Hope this helps someone...
Cheers,
K

 

[wink]

Too late for me......

 

[catspaw]

   
Not to be pedantic, but I have a hard time assigning Schiit the blame in this case. I think the case here is more "welcome to the audio gear/upgrade-itis/dragon chasing bug." That Schiit has well-defined price tranches makes it easy to climb within their ladder entirely, but this is the dangerous aspect associated with the entire (if not many other similar materialistic endeavors) hobby.
 
 
if you're careful and thorough 1) you can usually get decent correlation between what you spend and what you get 2) you will almost always experience diminishing marginal returns. The sticky thing is that there are certain things that operate on step functions (opamp vs discrete circuits, delta-sigma reference design versus fpga/r2r/nos/unicorn tears) on the cost/price side; some of them are mild differences (won't necessarily say improvements), some represent a diminished marginal improvement but the chasm between them and the previous product are material in both sound and cost. It's a nasty thing.
 
I'm sure this sentiment has been repeated a thousand times on these forums (and elsewhere), but the secret here is to realize that the endgame is infinite. There will always be a newer, better, more expensive, or different-in-a-novel product either on one's wish list or coming onto the market. Going from a 1990 Plymouth to a Subaru was a life-changing difference, but that doesn't stop me from wanting a Porsche, which wouldn't stop me from wanting a Ferrari. Presumably once in that sort of rarified air, the desire then transfers to the newer special-edition Ferraris or even more esoteric avenues. The metaphor gets strained, but the point remains: There will always be something better (or, more accurately, something you want that you don't have). There's a decent chance you'll experience regret or remorse with the purchases you do make.
 
So, I usually say things like "if you're happy with how it sounds now, delete your head-fi account, block it on the router, and go spend some more time listening to it and forget you ever thought about upgrading again!" But, that won't work. And the doubts won't go away.
 
What I have found interesting is bringing other people in to share. I get a kick when somebody listens to some music with me and reactions like "oh, now I get why you're into this" start popping up. It doesn't entirely attenuate the dragon chasing, but it reminds you how you got where you are and that there's an incredible amount of joy capability present in the current systems and software. Have seen (and will admit having fallen victim to) all too often to scenarios where a particular piece of gear has listening lifetime measured in hours or a small handful of days before being sold or traded in! That piece may have been the best-sounding component of its type ever present in a particular system but it was swiftly replaced yet again before ever really delivering any sort of value or payback. 
 
 
Anyhow, try the new stuff, either yourself or borrowed, or at a jam or meet or show. Get a sense of what's out there, but do everything you can not to get sucked into this particular rabbit hole. There's no end to it.

Well, it was a figurative speach.. not actually mean that .

 

[judmarc]

  Reviewing? Headphones at least to me have taken off quite a bit and so have there prices. Maybe not so much now but I could def. see in the future people making a living reviewing gear without super duper engineering background. At least to me to be a good reviewer all you have to have is an incredible passion music, sound, and the English language which to me is something no school out there can give you.  

 
I'd like to see more reviewers with very solid engineering backgrounds.  Even in the "name" audio publications, I've seen both laughers, where a reviewer will get something plain wrong, or admissions of ignorance - "I don't know how this works, but...," or "This is the explanation X Corp gives for the way its component sounds, and I don't know whether it makes engineering sense but I'm just passing it along."
 
About the English language: I agree no school can give you the love of reading that's likely to be the single most important factor in your facility with English.  But technical education in English will give you tools that help you to write effectively.  (I'm immensely grateful to the student teacher in 9th grade who hated me for some reason and gave me Cs and Ds on everything I wrote.  She herself didn't help me at all - she was just a 21-year-old with a problem.  But it put me in a 10th grade English class where we spent a great deal of time doing things like diagramming sentences.  I still do that mentally sometimes when determining the answers to pesky problems like subject-verb number agreement, correct pronoun case, etc.)

 

[judmarc]

  True, but:
 
(1) Legal problems, especially IP, tax, or customs law problems, can kill a young company just as dead, and just as fast, as having products blow up on customers' racks.
 
(2) Your accountant doesn't know nearly as much about tax as he or she claims to know, and that's especially true about international tax (and who's not global these days?).
 
(3) The return on investment in good, proactive lawyering is astronomical. If you wait until you know you have a legal problem before auditioning lawyers, you are likely to be in a heap o'trouble, and getting out of that trouble will be orders of magnitude more time-consuming and expensive that getting it right up front would have been.

 
Yeah, I'd like to work in audio, too.  Nice try, Burnsie. 

 
I did have to laugh when I read that bit Jason wrote about legal.  He's absolutely right about a lawyer in-house being unaffordable, except perhaps for the largest companies in audio.  At that size, I get the sense it would be a lot like working for any widget manufacturer, without the personal relationships and potential for surprises (both good and bad) that would lend excitement and emotional resonance to the job.
 
But what you said about being pro-active (hate that term 'cause it's overused and not even a real word, though I love the concept) is true as well.  Having a good attorney to help plan strategy and implementation in the areas you mentioned - IP, tax, customs - can save a tremendous amount of pain down the road.  A lot easier (and less costly in time, money, and perhaps most important, opportunities) to set the right course now instead of having to change it later.
 
About accountants, lawyers, and tax: As usual, depends on which accountant or lawyer.  My brother-in-law started his career as a CPA with expertise in international tax, now "retired" (still consulting) after being CFO of a couple of major international corporations.  Boy (well, he's younger than I am) knows his stuff.

 

[catspaw]

Sir, you are 100% right. I just got a new headphone, probably number 25 or so in my collection. It's a crazy hobby. However for the first time I feel that I have reached my personal equilibrium where I am content with what I have. The same happened when I actually bought a Porsche, I drove it, tracked it (am a hobby racer), joined the club, amazing, down to earth, lovely people there, am happy and content. Because I have yet to expose the limits of the car, my personal limits as a driver are lower than my cars...but I am getting close. Can't imagine driving any other car brand anymore and when I do, I really miss the driving pleasure I get from a Porsche. You just feel the road and what the car is up to at any moment, and the sound of that flat six with the sports exhaust is still giving me shivers. Yes I sure as hell want a GT3 RS or a Turbo S but it's not in my budget. And I think there lies the problem with the personal audio hobby, you don't have to stretch yourself too much in order to get the next best thing. It's all relatively affordable at first. I listened to a lot of summit-fi cans and while I really like what I hear, back home with my 650/T90 and crack I am happy again with what I have....for now.

I think we are chasing the goose bumps of what you described, the first time you listen to an old song and you get goosebumps. After a few days the goosebumps go away when you listen to the song with the new gear and you are looking for the next goosebumps inducing purchase.

Then, you remind yourself that you are in this hobby because you love music, I have to remind myself quite often, it's not the gear, it's the music I love. Yes, I want it to sound as good as possible, but in the end, it's the songs.... I am able to squash the upgrade bug 9 out of 10 times, thankfully but sometimes it still bites me....

Hope this helps someone...
Cheers,
K

For me its the songs... and the games.
Very few know the difference of playing very good epic games with good and bad audio .

 

[wink]

 

[MandoBear]

 
But what you said about being pro-active (hate that term 'cause it's overused and not even a real word, though I love the concept) is true as well.  

Someone after my own heart.  The word in plain English is active.

 

[cjl]

  Someone after my own heart.  The word in plain English is active.

You should tell Merriam Webster or the OED that (though pro-active isn't a word, the word is proactive, without a hyphen)...
 
 
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/proactive
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/proactive

 

[judmarc]

  You should tell Merriam Webster or the OED that (though pro-active isn't a word, the word is proactive, without a hyphen)...
 
 
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/proactive
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/proactive

 
Hah!  Can't very well disagree with the OED.  (Have the Compact Edition, the micro-printed one that comes with a magnifying glass, and love it.)  It goes all the way back to the 1930s I see, which surprises me.  Since I can't say it isn't a word any longer, I'll have to content myself with simply disliking it. 

 

[Exidrion]

   
Not to be pedantic, but I have a hard time assigning Schiit the blame in this case. I think the case here is more "welcome to the audio gear/upgrade-itis/dragon chasing bug." That Schiit has well-defined price tranches makes it easy to climb within their ladder entirely, but this is the dangerous aspect associated with the entire (if not many other similar materialistic endeavors) hobby.
 
 
if you're careful and thorough 1) you can usually get decent correlation between what you spend and what you get 2) you will almost always experience diminishing marginal returns. The sticky thing is that there are certain things that operate on step functions (opamp vs discrete circuits, delta-sigma reference design versus fpga/r2r/nos/unicorn tears) on the cost/price side; some of them are mild differences (won't necessarily say improvements), some represent a diminished marginal improvement but the chasm between them and the previous product are material in both sound and cost. It's a nasty thing.
 
I'm sure this sentiment has been repeated a thousand times on these forums (and elsewhere), but the secret here is to realize that the endgame is infinite. There will always be a newer, better, more expensive, or different-in-a-novel product either on one's wish list or coming onto the market. Going from a 1990 Plymouth to a Subaru was a life-changing difference, but that doesn't stop me from wanting a Porsche, which wouldn't stop me from wanting a Ferrari. Presumably once in that sort of rarified air, the desire then transfers to the newer special-edition Ferraris or even more esoteric avenues. The metaphor gets strained, but the point remains: There will always be something better (or, more accurately, something you want that you don't have). There's a decent chance you'll experience regret or remorse with the purchases you do make.
 
So, I usually say things like "if you're happy with how it sounds now, delete your head-fi account, block it on the router, and go spend some more time listening to it and forget you ever thought about upgrading again!" But, that won't work. And the doubts won't go away.
 
What I have found interesting is bringing other people in to share. I get a kick when somebody listens to some music with me and reactions like "oh, now I get why you're into this" start popping up. It doesn't entirely attenuate the dragon chasing, but it reminds you how you got where you are and that there's an incredible amount of joy capability present in the current systems and software. Have seen (and will admit having fallen victim to) all too often to scenarios where a particular piece of gear has listening lifetime measured in hours or a small handful of days before being sold or traded in! That piece may have been the best-sounding component of its type ever present in a particular system but it was swiftly replaced yet again before ever really delivering any sort of value or payback. 
 
 
Anyhow, try the new stuff, either yourself or borrowed, or at a jam or meet or show. Get a sense of what's out there, but do everything you can not to get sucked into this particular rabbit hole. There's no end to it.

 
This kind of hits home for me. I just got a Woo Audio WDS-1 mid January and I love it. Then I came on here and I hear about the Yggdrasil and the rave reviews it's getting..and I want it pretty badly. Especially because I had a Bifrost before the WDS-1, and I know how well Schiit does the whole price vs performance thing. The thing is, it's a whole $1000 more, and selling things is a bother.
 
Oh well, we'll see.

 

[rmullins08]

   
Hah!  Can't very well disagree with the OED.  (Have the Compact Edition, the micro-printed one that comes with a magnifying glass, and love it.)  It goes all the way back to the 1930s I see, which surprises me.  Since I can't say it isn't a word any longer, I'll have to content myself with simply disliking it. 

Not to derail the thread, but a great book on the OED is The Professor and the Madman.  A huge chunk of the OED was submitted by a killer in an insane asylum.
 
Back to Schiit.  Can't wait to see what they have in store for the year.