[FLTWS]

That's one pretty looking power amp and interesting TT.

 

[bcowen]

If you want to see the grand daddy of litigants, check out Bose's history, specifically with the Consumer's Report case.

JC

I never paid attention to that, but read up on it a little last night. All the way to the Supreme Court even. Sheez.

No highs, no lows, must be Bose. **

** I plead the 1st.

 

[BagelJoe]

Classic!

I remember when every hippie flat had shelves just like that. Sturdy and easy to dismantle at moving time.

Time warp.

Thanks!
.

I resemble that remark!!

 

[ScottFree]

Classic!

I remember when every hippie flat had shelves just like that. Sturdy and easy to dismantle at moving time.

Time warp.

Thanks!
.

 

[Ableza]

RANT WARNING
This is not really the place for this rant, but it is a seemingly safe zone here on HeadFi to express an opinion, so I am taking advantage of that.

A member asked if I could help them in a cable discussion, and I declined. Why? Because it is pointless and distracting. I refuse to participate in places like the Sound Science forum or any other forums where the arrogance of "needing to be right" is paramount. Here are a few pieces of advice I have for anyone who gets sucked into similar audiophoole discussions about things like cables, tubes, vinyl, single-driver speakers, expensive gear, etc that I have realized after being connected to this business since 1973.

1) There is no "right." There is only evidence. Evidence can take the form of measurements, personal perceptions, opinions and group studies. But it is only evidence.
2) Two people may draw completely different conclusions from the same evidence. This is OK, Let them.
3) Unless you are in the business of selling audio equipment, there is no value to you of being "right" nor of shaping someone else's opinion. You may think you are going to help them not waste their money or make what you think it s a silly mistake, but at the end of the day people will do what they want to do.
4) Audio is a subjective, perceptual-based experience. It is not just the electrical signal nor the acoustic waveform, it is about how the user receives, processes, and interprets it in their heads. This is why two people may experience the exact same audio stimulus differently, and what each perceives will be "right" for them.
5) Nothing is overpriced. Many things may cost more than YOU would want to pay, but if enough people are willing to pay the price to keep the business alive then it is priced right. This is basic retail theory, and it applies to audio. So while it is fun to make fun of $50,000 gold-plated volume knobs, and I do it too, the argument that it is overpriced is not accurate.
6) And besides, what do you care, really, about anything anyone else does or thinks? Unless it affects you, it's moot to your life. If they want to buy a $50K knob, let them. If they want to think that using mag-lev cryo-treated cable risers from Southern Lithuania improves their system dynamics and lifts all their velis, wish them well. It's not your house, it's not your gear, it's not your money. Laugh to yourself in the smug knowledge that you wouldn't waste your money like that. That's what I do, right before I spend it all on some other equally superfluous thing that is important to me.

And this is why I appreciate companies like Schiit, who play none of those silly games and just do what they do at prices they think are fair. It's a breath of fresh air in this industry. Thank you.

[/RANT]

 

[Robert Padgett]

Classic!

I remember when every hippie flat had shelves just like that.
Timewarp.

Thanks!
.

That almost sounds Past Tense... I am seriously considering the glass blocks and some nice pre-cut shelves for my system. Home Depot has some nice stuff.

 

[valiant66]

Two different approaches -- light and rigid, or mass-y (and naturally rigid). Both valid, but both with different sounds. The Neuance shelves are extremely light but very rigid. The shelf under the amp weighs in at maybe a pound, yet that's a 70 lb amp sitting on the tips of 4 spikes on top of it. Honestly didn't hear much (if any) difference when I replaced the original vinyl-covered MDF shelf with it, but I was hoping for similar results to what the Neuance did under the turntable, which was a substantial audible improvement over the MDF.

Spikes optional, of course.

I would always expect vibration mitigation to have the most affect on a turntable, with its tiny signals generated by minuscule diamonds tracking a shaky groove.*

After that the next thing with moving parts that might respond to external vibrations would be a CD player, followed by anything with tubes in it.

I would expect the least affect would be on solid state gear with no moving parts. I would frankly suspect a poorly designed device if it there was a substantial audible improvement heard from trading out one shelf material for another under an amp or DAC.

*Edit: I had a friend who was very, very obsessed about airborne vibrations affecting his turntable and the playback of records. He had an opportunity to build himself a house. One of the design features he insisted on was a concrete column grounded in the bed rock below his house rising through the basement and a hole in the living room floor to a platform at the right height for a turntable. He had a dust cover mounted separately from the turntable base so that in theory none of the airborne vibrations created in the room could reach the turntable no matter how loud he played his music. Bedrock-born vibrations were another matter of course, but here in Alberta we don’t have much in the way of seismic activity, and he had the parking pad for his vehicles isolated from where the column went into the ground so even idling trucks or whatever wouldn’t be a problem.
.

 

[Odin412]

Audio is a subjective, perceptual-based experience.

That sentence really sums up this hobby, IMHO. Great rant!

 

[US Blues]

...If they want to think that using mag-lev cryo-treated cable risers from Southern Lithuania improves their system dynamics and lifts all their velis, wish them well...

The new, anti-gravity cable lifters from Estonia are worth keeping an eye on, though.

 

[TylersEclectic]

The new, anti-gravity cable lifters from Estonia are worth keeping an eye on, though.

I intend to wrap them into a pair of boots to create a flying “moon-boot” or “hover blading” style of transportation...

 

[EricDH]

RANT WARNING
This is not really the place for this rant, but it is a seemingly safe zone here on HeadFi to express an opinion, so I am taking advantage of that.

A member asked if I could help them in a cable discussion, and I declined. Why? Because it is pointless and distracting. I refuse to participate in places like the Sound Science forum or any other forums where the arrogance of "needing to be right" is paramount. Here are a few pieces of advice I have for anyone who gets sucked into similar audiophoole discussions about things like cables, tubes, vinyl, single-driver speakers, expensive gear, etc that I have realized after being connected to this business since 1973.

1) There is no "right." There is only evidence. Evidence can take the form of measurements, personal perceptions, opinions and group studies. But it is only evidence.
2) Two people may draw completely different conclusions from the same evidence. This is OK, Let them.
3) Unless you are in the business of selling audio equipment, there is no value to you of being "right" nor of shaping someone else's opinion. You may think you are going to help them not waste their money or make what you think it s a silly mistake, but at the end of the day people will do what they want to do.
4) Audio is a subjective, perceptual-based experience. It is not just the electrical signal nor the acoustic waveform, it is about how the user receives, processes, and interprets it in their heads. This is why two people may experience the exact same audio stimulus differently, and what each perceives will be "right" for them.
5) Nothing is overpriced. Many things may cost more than YOU would want to pay, but if enough people are willing to pay the price to keep the business alive then it is priced right. This is basic retail theory, and it applies to audio. So while it is fun to make fun of $50,000 gold-plated volume knobs, and I do it too, the argument that it is overpriced is not accurate.
6) And besides, what do you care, really, about anything anyone else does or thinks? Unless it affects you, it's moot to your life. If they want to buy a $50K knob, let them. If they want to think that using mag-lev cryo-treated cable risers from Southern Lithuania improves their system dynamics and lifts all their velis, wish them well. It's not your house, it's not your gear, it's not your money. Laugh to yourself in the smug knowledge that you wouldn't waste your money like that. That's what I do, right before I spend it all on some other equally superfluous thing that is important to me.

And this is why I appreciate companies like Schiit, who play none of those silly games and just do what they do at prices they think are fair. It's a breath of fresh air in this industry. Thank you.

[/RANT]

I couldn't agree more. I also let those cable discussions pass, because participating is pointless. And indeed, I have no reason to visit those "audio science" bois. The problem with "audio science" is this, in my opinion:

REAL science works more or less like this:
1. Scientist makes an observation.
2. Proper measurements are made to clearly describe the observation.
3. Scientist tries to explain the observation in line with current scientific theories.
4. If the explanation is satisfactory, it stops here.
5. If it is not, the scientist looks into better/different types of measurements.
6. If that doesn't explain the observation, the scientist looks into modifying the theory, or to come up with a complete new theory that explains the observation. Obviously, the new theory will only be accepted when it can be supported by experiments.

This is how we went from Newton to Einstein, etc.

So a real scientist is infinitely curious. And he knows very well that being "right" today doesn't mean anything tomorrow. Science evolves. And you can only be successful in this field if you have a truly open mind, if you are open to new observations that challenge trusted theories.

But these audio "science" adepts stop at point 3. And if the explanation is not satisfactory, they don't doubt the measurements. They don't look for better theories. They simply say "your observation is wrong, you can't hear a difference because I can't measure it". That is not real science, it's a farce.

 

[KoshNaranek]

RANT WARNING
This is not really the place for this rant, but it is a seemingly safe zone here on HeadFi to express an opinion, so I am taking advantage of that.

A member asked if I could help them in a cable discussion, and I declined. Why? Because it is pointless and distracting. I refuse to participate in places like the Sound Science forum or any other forums where the arrogance of "needing to be right" is paramount. Here are a few pieces of advice I have for anyone who gets sucked into similar audiophoole discussions about things like cables, tubes, vinyl, single-driver speakers, expensive gear, etc that I have realized after being connected to this business since 1973.

1) There is no "right." There is only evidence. Evidence can take the form of measurements, personal perceptions, opinions and group studies. But it is only evidence.
2) Two people may draw completely different conclusions from the same evidence. This is OK, Let them.
3) Unless you are in the business of selling audio equipment, there is no value to you of being "right" nor of shaping someone else's opinion. You may think you are going to help them not waste their money or make what you think it s a silly mistake, but at the end of the day people will do what they want to do.
4) Audio is a subjective, perceptual-based experience. It is not just the electrical signal nor the acoustic waveform, it is about how the user receives, processes, and interprets it in their heads. This is why two people may experience the exact same audio stimulus differently, and what each perceives will be "right" for them.
5) Nothing is overpriced. Many things may cost more than YOU would want to pay, but if enough people are willing to pay the price to keep the business alive then it is priced right. This is basic retail theory, and it applies to audio. So while it is fun to make fun of $50,000 gold-plated volume knobs, and I do it too, the argument that it is overpriced is not accurate.
6) And besides, what do you care, really, about anything anyone else does or thinks? Unless it affects you, it's moot to your life. If they want to buy a $50K knob, let them. If they want to think that using mag-lev cryo-treated cable risers from Southern Lithuania improves their system dynamics and lifts all their velis, wish them well. It's not your house, it's not your gear, it's not your money. Laugh to yourself in the smug knowledge that you wouldn't waste your money like that. That's what I do, right before I spend it all on some other equally superfluous thing that is important to me.

And this is why I appreciate companies like Schiit, who play none of those silly games and just do what they do at prices they think are fair. It's a breath of fresh air in this industry. Thank you.

[/RANT]

Not only do I appreciate this post, I would like Ableza's permission to redistribute it at will. Properly annotated, of course.

 

[Paladin79]

I couldn't agree more. I also let those cable discussions pass, because participating is pointless. And indeed, I have no reason to visit those "audio science" bois. The problem with "audio science" is this, in my opinion:

REAL science works more or less like this:
1. Scientist makes an observation.
2. Proper measurements are made to clearly describe the observation.
3. Scientist tries to explain the observation in line with current scientific theories.
4. If the explanation is satisfactory, it stops here.
5. If it is not, the scientist looks into better/different types of measurements.
6. If that doesn't explain the observation, the scientist looks into modifying the theory, or to come up with a complete new theory that explains the observation. Obviously, the new theory will only be accepted when it can be supported by experiments.

This is how we went from Newton to Einstein, etc.

So a real scientist is infinitely curious. And he knows very well that being "right" today doesn't mean anything tomorrow. Science evolves. And you can only be successful in this field if you have a truly open mind, if you are open to new observations that challenge trusted theories.

But these audio "science" adepts stop at point 3. And if the explanation is not satisfactory, they don't doubt the measurements. They don't look for better theories. They simply say "your observation is wrong, you can't hear a difference because I can't measure it". That is not real science, it's a farce.

I only try to answer simple questions on cables and tend to stay away from what one might or might not believe they hear.

I have run some of my own tests with both equipment and with people but those results are more for my education, and one has to be careful when entering into subjective discussions. Fortunately I have been in a position where I can hear and test a lot of different product without spending a fortune on it.

 

[Ableza]

Not only do I appreciate this post, I would like Ableza's permission to redistribute it at will. Properly annotated, of course.

Of course, and I am honored.

 

[artur9]

REAL science works more or less like this:
1. Scientist makes an observation.
...
3. Scientist tries to explain the observation in line with current scientific theories.

I don't disagree but would add that it's not necessarily a/the scientist that makes the initial observation. I get quite vexed with the "sound scientists" who say that because I observed X I need to provide explanation Y. I am not a scientist. An actual scientist may choose to follow up my observation (or not) but I am under no obligation to come up with a possibly tortured explanation.

It's almost like requiring a surveillance camera in Strange Evidence to actually explain the phenomenon it observed.