[Ableza]

I'm as bad as the next guy in off-topic conversation, but please, politics and religion are sure to get the thread locked and I don't want to see that.

 

[MWSVette]

FWIW, on the entry level products (Modi, Magni, Vali, etc.), the 'Amazon Fulfilled' way costs just a few bucks more when you 'run the numbers' because you get 'Free Shipping' from Amazon (over $35).

For instance, A Vali direct from Schiit to the Midwest US, the end cost ends up being $119 + ~$12 (shipping) for a total of ~$131
Same product from Amazon is $139 with 'Free Shipping'

For Magnis and Modis in the past, the delta was even smaller ($2-3 if I remember correctly).

The question in the past was 'what if I may not like this product?'. With, Amazon Fulfilled, you have 30 days to decide -- and NO Restocking Fee. With Schiit Direct, you have a 15% restocking fee AND only 15 days to decide.

That said, the recent change in policy to waive the Restocking Fee is a nice update to the policy!

I think that is one of the reasons that Shiit has such a high return rate on amazon is the disparity in the return policies. I think the question for many buyers is still 'what if I may not like this product?'   If given the choice of buying a product they can not see or demo from a relatively unknown company or the same product on amazon most people would go with the longer, more flexible and far less expensive return policy.  
 
If you run the same Vali numbers and return the product for whatever reason from amazon you would be refunded $139.00.  From Schiit if you return the item for whatever the reason you would pay shipping of $12.00 both ways and a restocking fee of $18.00 for a total of $42.00 on a $119.00 item.
 
Raising prices will not help that problem, as a matter of fact it may exacerbate the problem of a high return rate on amazon.
 
That said yes the recent change the Schiit return policy allowing you to upgrade in product without restocking fee and up to 3 items per year is great.
 
And I still love my Schiit...

 

[gikigill]

  Because 15 years ago Congress passed the Copyright Term Extension Act.

Exactly and that destroys the spirit of copyright. If we have infinite copyright, then its rent seeking which doesn't help anyone. Wheres the incentive to create more and why?
Copyright should be limited to at most the life of the creator unlike the ****show nowadays.
Henry Ford was sued by the Association of Licensed Automobile Manufacturers in the USA for making the Ford T because they wanted cars to be patented.
If they had succeeded, no more cheap cars for everyone and no Mustangs or GT40s or Cobras. William Greenleaf’s Monopoly on Wheels is a good book for further reading.

 

[LxJLthr]

FWIW, on the entry level products (Modi, Magni, Vali, etc.), the 'Amazon Fulfilled' way costs just a few bucks more when you 'run the numbers' because you get 'Free Shipping' from Amazon (over $35).

For instance, A Vali direct from Schiit to the Midwest US, the end cost ends up being $119 + ~$12 (shipping) for a total of ~$131
Same product from Amazon is $139 with 'Free Shipping'

For Magnis and Modis in the past, the delta was even smaller ($2-3 if I remember correctly).

The question in the past was 'what if I may not like this product?'. With, Amazon Fulfilled, you have 30 days to decide -- and NO Restocking Fee. With Schiit Direct, you have a 15% restocking fee AND only 15 days to decide.

That said, the recent change in policy to waive the Restocking Fee is a nice update to the policy!

 
Indeed, it is very convenient from the consumer side of things.  It is a different story from the business side, which is what Jason tried to explain.  Sometimes Amazon is the best option, sometimes it is.  I still prefer to deal with businesses directly and build rapport where it makes sense. 
 
Sometimes I also wish people did more due diligence on their purchases and personal needs/wants.  No one buys cars or appliances without research and test driving, yet many cannot be bothered with just about everything else.  I had a buddy visit dealerships in 3 states looking/test driving different option packages of a car he wanted...yet when it came time to put together his man cave set up he just bought/returned numerous amps/DACs, receivers, TVs, and speakers...while asking me for information, set up and/or return help...all because "hey man, I can just return it within 30 days or claim product fault, no skin off my back!". 
 
At the end of the day, to each his own...if that's the model that works for Schiit and allows them to continue producing more quality Schiit...more power to them.  You cannot please everyone in this world.

 

[Ableza]

 
Exactly and that destroys the spirit of copyright. If we have infinite copyright, then its rent seeking which doesn't help anyone. Wheres the incentive to create more and why?
Copyright should be limited to at most the life of the creator unlike the ****show nowadays.
Henry Ford was sued by the Association of Licensed Automobile Manufacturers in the USA for making the Ford T because they wanted cars to be patented.
If they had succeeded, no more cheap cars for everyone and no Mustangs or GT40s or Cobras. William Greenleaf’s Monopoly on Wheels is a good book for further reading.

While I agree with your sentiment it really doesn't matter once it's the law.  The law is the law, and we have the choice to either follow it or break it.  We also have the responsibility to let our representatives know when we think it needs to be changed.  My intent on forums like this is to describe the law, since there are way too many people in this hobby who seem to think it's OK to ignore the law when it comes to copyright, and that can only hurt us all in the long run.

 

[skyline315]

Sorry to break the tide of conversation here...
 
I'm finally caught up, thought I have to confess that I skipped a chapter or two.  The SYS chapter, for instance, since it's not a product that's on my radar.
 
Were the PYST cables mentioned at all?  After a quick thread search, I don't think Jason, Mike, or Alex have touched on them.
 
I know they're very minor in the Schiit product line, but I'm very curious about how the pricing was arrived at.  The whole cable debate fascinates me.  I'm very much an unbeliever, but still shelled out $20 apiece for these two cables, which many cable advocates would consider laughably cheap.  To me, it was an extravagance.  Why did I get them?  I like to support companies that I believe in, there aren't many 6 inch. RCA cables on the market, and I had a $50 Amazon gift card...so why the heck not?  
 
There's that Amazon edge again...

 

[LxJLthr]

   
Were the PYST cables mentioned at all?  After a quick thread search, I don't think Jason, Mike, or Alex have touched on them.

 
I don't remember that either.  Straight from Schiit website...
 
"PYST cables are made from only the finest 6-nines Unobtanium™ alloy, molecularly assembled in our Alternate Universe™ reality-distortion tesseract field , using a secret geometry reverse-engineered from crashed UFOs, painstakingly smuggled out of Area 51 by deep-cover operatives. Performance is further enhanced by the use of a QuantConnect™ quantum-entangled pair of transmission interfaces, held at absolute zero by our exclusive Stasis Field™ technology. The cables are then wrapped in NanoAeroCap™, a nanotechnology-enabled aerogel anti-capacitance insulation system, featuring Fractal Interleaved Geometry™ to create negative inductance for maximum audio transmission quality
 
*Or not. It may have been a hallucination. USB PYSTs are actually just nice, 1M long, USB 2.0-rated cables that have thicker than normal power conductors and silver-plated copper data lines. We think the electrons like silver better, or something. Or not. 
 
...In any case, you can get PYST, or you can save some money at Monoprice."
 
I have no doubt they are a very high quality cable and there is definitely a market for them because people don't want to have any "weak links" in their system.  That said, the 1.5ft premium RCA cable on Monoprice cost me $2.35 (vs $23 PSY)? Does it perform 10x better? I am staying clear away from that can of worms...
 
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021814&p_id=5346&seq=1&format=2

 

[cspirou]

What I really like about Amazon are wishlists. My family and friends usually have no clue what to get me and I point them to my wishlist which includes Schiit products. Telling people to go to your site and order a DAC with a weird sounding name is a little daunting for people that don't even know what a DAC is. On Amazon I just put exactly what I want on the list and my family and friends don't really have to worry about picking the wrong item or even my shipping address.

While I think most people buy Schiit for themselves, I do beleive that gift buyers are a factor when it comes to cheaper items like the Fulla.

 

[514077]

(Responding to LostInMyDreams' post)
Have to aggree.  We also get a bare minimum of HD downloads available to Americans including our own Canadian content.
And back to amazon.ca, I was curious about the price of A&Ks in Canada.  Amazon had the 120 for $3800 and the 240 for over $5,000.  Just annoying to me.

 

[cspirou]

Indeed, it is very convenient from the consumer side of things.  It is a different story from the business side, which is what Jason tried to explain.  Sometimes Amazon is the best option, sometimes it is.  I still prefer to deal with businesses directly and build rapport where it makes sense. 

Sometimes I also wish people did more due diligence on their purchases and personal needs/wants.  No one buys cars or appliances without research and test driving, yet many cannot be bothered with just about everything else.  I had a buddy visit dealerships in 3 states looking/test driving different option packages of a car he wanted...yet when it came time to put together his man cave set up he just bought/returned numerous amps/DACs, receivers, TVs, and speakers...while asking me for information, set up and/or return help...all because "hey man, I can just return it within 30 days or claim product fault, no skin off my back!". 

At the end of the day, to each his own...if that's the model that works for Schiit and allows them to continue producing more quality Schiit...more power to them.  You cannot please everyone in this world.

You mentioned test driving a car as "due diligence" for purchasing a car, how do you really expect to do the same with Schiit products? I can't really go to Best Buy and listen before buying it. Really the only way is to purchase the product and return it.

Warby Parker has a system that I like that I wish some audio companies would adopt. They are also direct sale and they deal with glasses which you basically have to try on before purchasing. They will send you up five pairs at a time to try on so you can see how they feel before you decide which pair you want.

Now I don't know if this is feasible but I think that Schiit could send their more beatup models so people can try it out. They can charge a trial fee of 10% of a particular model which would ultimately go towards a purchase of an amp if they decide to buy one.

I wonder if Schiit ever considered having a storefront at their home location so people can try their products and buy direct.

 

[jacal01]

  Mystery 1. Expect to wrap your mind around a couple of new concepts with this one. It’s really hard to say anything more about this…but consider that one component of it will be compatible with some of our other products.
 
Mystery 2. I’ve said I’ve been working on a new balanced topology, and that will be incorporated into one of the planned mystery products. It does not replace anything we’re currently selling, but it does take us in some surprising new directions. And that’s all I’ll say about that.
 
Mystery 3. And expect something that nobody is expecting from us. I can’t say more.

 
OK, I'll play.  Late to the party here & catching up, guys; been on an altered reality vacation (spelled with 4 letters) with the fam. Happy new year to all you goatherders and handlers.  I'm looking at you, NinjaHampster.
 
1.  An I2S to USB DDC.
2.  A passive digital S/PDIF splitter.
3.  An anechoic chamber for portable use.
 
Wha'd I win?

 

[gikigill]

Getting 2 Valis shortly. Cheaper to import from the US than buy in Australia.

 

[LxJLthr]

You mentioned test driving a car as "due diligence" for purchasing a car, how do you really expect to do the same with Schiit products? I can't really go to Best Buy and listen before buying it. Really the only way is to purchase the product and return it.

Warby Parker has a system that I like that I wish some audio companies would adopt. They are also direct sale and they deal with glasses which you basically have to try on before purchasing. They will send you up five pairs at a time to try on so you can see how they feel before you decide which pair you want.

Now I don't know if this is feasible but I think that Schiit could send their more beatup models so people can try it out. They can charge a trial fee of 10% of a particular model which would ultimately go towards a purchase of an amp if they decide to buy one.

I wonder if Schiit ever considered having a storefront at their home location so people can try their products and buy direct.

 
I used that example for general behavior trends rather than market comparison.  However, automotive sales probably ain't the best analogy since it is a much more mature (non-direct sale) distribution market Haha   I think our hobby/market still has much more room for development and growth and it really hasn't gained mainstream acceptance until recently.  Plus it was a general statement applicable not only to Schiit.  Warby Parker system sounds awesome.  I would support that.  I can think og other options, but I have no idea how feasible they might be.
 
...that said, some options are attending Head-Fi meets, going to higher-end/specialty audio stores (BB can burn in hell), asking to demo other member's gear in return for small fee/food/beer, trying similar products to get a general sense, or even just educating oneself on the product differences/characteristics/specs (ex. do not buy open headphones for an open floor plan work environment haha).  Will these be perfect or all encompassing solutions? Nope (especially outside this community).  Have I bought and returned products even after a crap ton of research? Yup.  I just don't like the concept of non-educated-buy-it-just-to-try-it purchases. Jason put it very well about people using liberal return policies to essentially "rent" items.

But like I said, to each their own.
 

Getting 2 Valis shortly. Cheaper to import from the US than buy in Australia.

Whaaaaa?  How so?  Do people buy and try to resell Schitt stuff there?

 

[jimmers]

  Whaaaaa?  How so?  Do people buy and try to resell Schitt stuff there?

Schiit reseller, Vali AUD219.00, Modi 2 Uber = AUD279.00 etc. (free shipping)
 
edit: Yet I bought a Rega Brio-R from this dealer for less than it sells for in the UK (not including shipping from UK and express shipping within AU was free)

 

 

[senorx12562]

Mr.LxJLthr,


Certainly, you are spot-on!  

Amazon sells stuff, they get a commission, just like all sales people, Amazon is a "Sales Company"! 

People seem to like Amazon but it's a Robot, it doesn't like anyone. 

Amazon charges Schiit a percentage that comes off the top of the Company's profit, it's another expensive rent, it reduces the capitol available to develop products, buy critical infastructure items for the Shop, pay employees.  

Amazon is almost like what the original colonists had with the British Government back in the 1700s, taxation without representation. 

Tony in Michigan

Speechless! Dumbfounded! Huh?