[Leopold Nenning]

Marketing is a science and works

Precisely. Almost no real hi-res out there, mostly just old wine in a new bottle.

 

[Pietro Cozzi Tinin]

Marketing is a science and works

Nah, marketing is a pseudo science.
And yes it works.

 

[Leopold Nenning]

Dithering has other applications besides digital audio, e.g. imaging. Dithering been in use since World War II.

Yes, I also dither every day. Should I eat lunch now or wait, for example. I prefer my bits to be decisive though, no dithering.

 

[jnak00]

Re: Class D talk from earlier today. I was previously on that Schiit class D bandwagon. In theory a class D amp that pairs in size with modi and magni sounds awesome. But after the past few days of listening I understand why Jason and Mike are hesitant to put out a class D product. I bought a cheap Dayton class D amp to go with the Elacs that Amazon sold for 150 a pair over the holidays. I have generally been pleased with the combo, as the elacs are nice speakers. That being said, I'm working a schiit ton of hours this week as my company is closing our fiscal year at weeks end. With a bunch of 12hr plus days on my agenda, I decided to bring Vidar to work and use that with the Elacs. Modi 3 > Loki > Magni 3 > are feeding Vidar. During the day I must never leave class A because the speakers are about 2-3 feet from me. The jump in sound quality by inserting Vidar has been a revelation. Seriously it blows my Dayton out of the water a hundred ways from Sunday. So with that in mind I have decided future B652s can be powered by the existing Dayton, and the Elacs deserve a class AB amp.

That's not really a fair comparison - a $700 Vidar vs. a cheap Class D. The Vidar should sound better. Having said that, I did have a similar experience, replacing a cheap SMSL Class D with a NAD C316BEE and it's not even remotely close - the NAD just blows it away in every aspect. But again, the NAD is something like 7x the price of the SMSL. I think a good class D amp can sound good, but you kind of get what you pay for with the cheap stuff.

 

[earnmyturns]

Marketing is a science and works

Actually, much of it is by independent artists/small labels with no marketing budgets, it's just what they get in digital format from their small recording studios and have for sale on Bandcamp.

 

[Rensek]

That's not really a fair comparison - a $700 Vidar vs. a cheap Class D. The Vidar should sound better. Having said that, I did have a similar experience, replacing a cheap SMSL Class D with a NAD C316BEE and it's not even remotely close - the NAD just blows it away in every aspect. But again, the NAD is something like 7x the price of the SMSL. I think a good class D amp can sound good, but you kind of get what you pay for with the cheap stuff.

Yes, what I was trying to say is I understand now why Jason won't release a cheapo class D. It doesn't sound that great and he has mentioned in the past how crowded the inexpensive class D field is.

 

[RCBinTN]

For current Schiit modular multibit DACs, S/PDIF (coax or AES depending on model) is still the best source in my experience.

My music server is a Macbook Pro (2014) with JRiver23. I'd been connecting to Gumby via Gen2 USB.
Had a variety of stability issues. Changed to S/PDIF optical, that gave good stability and the sound was OK.

Then, upgraded Gumby to Gen5 USB. No more stability issues, and the SQ is better (more clear/resolved) than with the optical connection.
I didn't test S/PDIF coax or AES, as no direct connections from the Mac (and no AES on Gumby).
FWIW and YMMV

 

[Ableza]

I've built *many* Class D amps for customers, using Hypex modules. They can sound good, unless you push them. In my opinion they are best for bandwidth limited applications like subwoofer amps. On the other hand, I have heard a very nice sounding (and very expensive) class D amp (actually a set of mono amps) from Merrill Audio that rivaled any other solid state amp I've heard. Bottom line is I trust the design chops of the folks at Schiit, and know that whatever they decide to produce is going to sound un-ass-like or they won't release it, and I really don't care what topology they choose.

 

[Robert Padgett]

Re: Class D talk from earlier today.--SNIP--
Would an amp in a Bifrost or Asgard sized chassis be able to do 10 or 20 wpc of traditional class A/B, with the first watt or so in class A, and the rest in class B? What about miniaturizing the Vidar heatsinks to fit the Asgard depth and width, with an extra .5 to 1.5 inches of height? It could be SE only. Even with relatively inefficient elacs (87db) 10 wpc gets you to 96 dB, which is pretty darn loud in a small room, 20 would blow you out, especially with some more efficient speakers.

I honestly don't even care about chassis size. Vidar, Aegir, Ragnarok kind of fly in the face of the cheap ethos you guys have covered so well in the DAC and HP market. They have value sure, but they aren't cheap.

At any rate, cheap class D is out for me for the time being.

But..... Why does Modi 3 sound so good, isn't that class D? I wonder what else you guys got cooking.

When posited the question about Class-D, it was from a curious perspective.
Like you, I thought I would try a $50 nobsound class-D amplifier, to make a nice little system on the Modi form-factor, and I concluded that it would be no better than a system for the workshop, garage, or by the swimming pool. I bought a Class-D Sprout100, which does a fine job with my Advents and the Dayton B652, but again, I needed a sub-woofer to get anything close to the Denon AVR (AB) it replaced.

A lively discussion ensued, and I learned from this discussion. I agree, that the Magni 3 sounds so very good--if only it could pump out 20w-- so we are thinking the same way.

Let me conclude that IF it becomes feasible, and practical to produce one, Jason will figure out a way, and I am patient.

Apologies to the folks who thought I was being silly...I am silly about Schiit sometimes, and if that isn't part and parcel of a company called Schiit, then I must be missing something.
Folks, I really am a Schiit-head. I love my Valhalla 2, and headphones...so a speaker amp is really not that high of priority--until I win the Mega-Lotto, in which case a pair of mono Aegirs, a Freya, Yggy, and a couple of Double Impacts will fit nicely in my Penthouse...Dream Big!

 

[PolarBehr]

Just a thought on hi res files:

Where did they come from and how did they get here?

Did they start life as a higher bit depth and higher sampling rate and down converted? Did they start with a red book CD file and up convert? Was it originally recorded at the released bit depth and sample rate? What was the quality of the original ADC, up or down converters? How can you find out?

Note, poorly preformed, recorded, engineered and/or mastered music will sound poor regardless of hi res, red book, vinyl or tape.

[edit] a great performance can go a long way to make up for other issues.

 

[Derrick Swart]

Nah, marketing is a pseudo science.
And yes it works.

Perhaps it is not an exact or “pure” science but for sure is a science. That is actually why it works so well

 

[Leopold Nenning]

Just a thought on hi res files:

Where did they come from and how did they get here?

Did they start life as a higher bit depth and higher sampling rate and down converted? Did they start with a red book CD file and up convert? Was it originally recorded at the released bit depth and sample rate? What was the quality of the original ADC, up or down converters? How can you find out?

Note, poorly preformed, recorded, engineered and/or mastered music will sound poor regardless of hi res, red book, vinyl or tape.

[edit] a great performance can go a long way to make up for other issues.

I could not agree more!

 

[Derrick Swart]

Just a thought on hi res files:

Where did they come from and how did they get here?

Did they start life as a higher bit depth and higher sampling rate and down converted? Did they start with a red book CD file and up convert? Was it originally recorded at the released bit depth and sample rate? What was the quality of the original ADC, up or down converters? How can you find out?

Note, poorly preformed, recorded, engineered and/or mastered music will sound poor regardless of hi res, red book, vinyl or tape.

[edit] a great performance can go a long way to make up for other issues.

Exactly! 9 out of 10 times the engineer works with 24bit 48Khz (or 96Khz, depending computing hardware) and shall be prepared and distributed as the client wishes

 

[Derrick Swart]

Actually, much of it is by independent artists/small labels with no marketing budgets, it's just what they get in digital format from their small recording studios and have for sale on Bandcamp.

Yes and it is good that exists! I wish that spirit was bigger because usually it contributes to the quality of the whole process.

 

[gljus]

Perhaps it is not an exact or “pure” science but for sure is a science. That is actually why it works so well

“All science is either physics or stamp collecting.”
- Ernest Rutherford