[Oveja Negra]

Silly? Who has high hopes?
I just was wondering if that might be something which would be less expensive than a Vidar, but more powerful than a Magni 3 for small speaker systems-- indeed.

I find it even more curious how some folks seem to be able to divine Jason and Mike's thoughts, from a Darko interview at Rocky Mountain...

Man, you should relax a little bit, it's not the first time you respond in a very childish jumpy way.

I'm not making fun of you or any other person here who desires a Class D amp from Schiit; first because I don't like to troll, and second... cause I'm among the ones hoping one day Class D topology can deliver a performance as good as the ones we get with the best Class AB implementations.

Regarding the "be able to divine Jason and Mike's thoughts". Well, I'm pretty sure nobody here claims that, we are just speculating based on what Jason and Mike say from time to time. Sometimes we get it right, sometimes we don't. Who cares, it's part of the fun when it comes to participate in a forum like this one.

Regards.

 

[artur9]

I have two thoughts I'd like to share.

Regarding Class D amplifiers: There are lots of class D specialists out there from very low priced to super boutique. And several different Class D topologies like Nord, B&O, Pascal. Personally, I have 2 qualms about them. First, I can never find one that meets my requirements aesthetically, power-wise and price-wise. Second, I believe all Class D dump all kinds of unimaginable noise into the power lines. Given the recent discussion that seems unacceptable. For these reasons, I have not found a Class D amp to love.

The other is, IIRC, a long time ago someone discovered that CDs made from tape originals sounded better than CDs made via an all digital path. That's how dithering was discovered, or so I've heard.

 

[Derrick Swart]

"any hi-res version will be just an upsampled Redbook file, correct?"
No, absolutely not, but there are lots of other things that matter. There is dithering, noise shaping, quality of ADC en DAC etc.etc. Good reading about this subject: https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/14949345-high-resolution-audio-bit-depth (hope this link is allowed). And please note that this reading is only about bit depth, As the final disclaimer paragraph reads: sampling rates are an entirely separate issue.Digital audio is not simple (nor is analogue by the way). There is no black or white, right or wrong in audio. Trust your ears and keep reading, investigating but most important enjoying your music.

I estimate REAL hi-res media available less than 5% of the total, redbook shall outnumber it by far in almost every genre of music

 

[Robert Padgett]

I have two thoughts I'd like to share.

Regarding Class D amplifiers: There are lots of class D specialists out there from very low priced to super boutique. And several different Class D topologies like Nord, B&O, Pascal. Personally, I have 2 qualms about them. First, I can never find one that meets my requirements aesthetically, power-wise and price-wise. Second, I believe all Class D dump all kinds of unimaginable noise into the power lines. Given the recent discussion that seems unacceptable. For these reasons, I have not found a Class D amp to love.

The other is, IIRC, a long time ago someone discovered that CDs made from tape originals sounded better than CDs made via an all digital path. That's how dithering was discovered, or so I've heard.

I have a PS Audio SPROUT100 with an ICEedge module. From what I understand that they (ICE) branched off from B&O. It more than meets my needs for a speaker amp, when a subwoofer is in the package. I will admit that I found it a bit anemic in Bass until I added the sub. As Herb Reichert said in his Stereophile review last November, it would satisfy most listeners. Shortly after I bought the Sprout, I discovered Tube Headphone amps Valhalla 2 and Sennheiser 6XX, so I would agree with Herb, it is adequate for my speaker system. (And has impressed several Audiophile friends with sound quality-- "for Class-D" always added, like a caveat)

 

[mp29k]

Any updates on Sol? I know first production run is planned to be a higher price, will that be a large run, or small? Realistically I’m ready to buy a new table around late May

 

[golfbravobravo]

Again, to each his own. I didn't want to screw around with an ugly bare board DIY solution. I preferred to purchase something that was purpose built for the application I needed. I have that. Enjoy your Pi!

@Ableza, my apologies, re-reading my post it sounds much more harsh than I intended. To me and most of the Pi using world, the USB issues on Pis were so well known that it would be incomprehensible to even try using it for hifi.

Again, my lack of finesse was entirely unintentional.

Cheers

 

[Rensek]

Re: Class D talk from earlier today. I was previously on that Schiit class D bandwagon. In theory a class D amp that pairs in size with modi and magni sounds awesome. But after the past few days of listening I understand why Jason and Mike are hesitant to put out a class D product. I bought a cheap Dayton class D amp to go with the Elacs that Amazon sold for 150 a pair over the holidays. I have generally been pleased with the combo, as the elacs are nice speakers. That being said, I'm working a schiit ton of hours this week as my company is closing our fiscal year at weeks end. With a bunch of 12hr plus days on my agenda, I decided to bring Vidar to work and use that with the Elacs. Modi 3 > Loki > Magni 3 > are feeding Vidar. During the day I must never leave class A because the speakers are about 2-3 feet from me. The jump in sound quality by inserting Vidar has been a revelation. Seriously it blows my Dayton out of the water a hundred ways from Sunday. So with that in mind I have decided future B652s can be powered by the existing Dayton, and the Elacs deserve a class AB amp.

I understand the desire and simplicity of powered monitors, but man, most of those are class D. If a person wants a good sounding, relatively inexpensive class A/B where does he go? Emotiva A-100 is looking mighty attractive right now. I have to imagine there is a market for a smallish sized class A/B amp, whether integrated or power, for folks who want to push some bookshelf speakers in small listening spaces.

Would an amp in a bifrost or Asgard sized chassis be able to do 10 or 20 wpc of traditional class A/B, with the first watt or so in class A, and the rest in class B? What about miniaturizing the Vidar heatsinks to fit the Asgard depth and width, with an extra .5 to 1.5 inches of height? It could be SE only. Even with relatively inefficient elacs (87db) 10 wpc gets you to 96 db, which is pretty darn loud in a small room, 20 would blow you out, especially with some more efficient speakers.

I honestly don't even care about chassis size. Vidar, Aegir, Ragnarok kind of fly in the face of the cheap ethos you guys have covered so well in the DAC and HP market. They have value sure, but they aren't cheap.

At any rate cheap class D is out for me for the time being.

But..... Why does modi 3 sound so good, isn't that class D? Me wonders what else you guys got cooking.

 

[valiant66]

"any hi-res version will be just an upsampled Redbook file, correct?"
No, absolutely not, but there are lots of other things that matter. There is dithering, noise shaping, quality of ADC en DAC etc.etc. Good reading about this subject: https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/14949345-high-resolution-audio-bit-depth (hope this link is allowed). And please note that this reading is only about bit depth, As the final disclaimer paragraph reads: sampling rates are an entirely separate issue.Digital audio is not simple (nor is analogue by the way). There is no black or white, right or wrong in audio. Trust your ears and keep reading, investigating but most important enjoying your music.

This paragraph :

>>
The quietest sound that a person with normal hearing can detect is 0 dB SPL (sound pressure level). The threshold of pain occurs at about a 130 dB SPL. If we were to create an audio system that had inaudible noise and could produce sounds reaching the threshold of pain, we would need a 130 dB SNR. This is equivalent to the SNR of a 21 to 22-bit digital system.
<<

Makes me think of the whole brouhaha about Yggdrasil "only" having 22 bits.
.

 

[earnmyturns]

Thank you for your suggestions! If I understand correctly, something like a DigiOne (or Digi+ etc.) adds S/PDIF capability. I thought USB Gen 5 solved any USB issues, in fact sounds better than S/PDIF. Same with the very good looking Ambre. Removing the functionality of the USB 5 upgraded I paid for? Confused.

Gen 5 USB is good with a decent source. S/PDIF coax still has a slight edge over Gen 5 USB on Yggdrasil, however (my impressions). Schiit have discussed on HF a totally new USB board they've been testing that improves on Gen 5. Whether that matches or beats S/PDIF coax for the Yggdrasil, however, is a matter to determine if and when they release it. I'm hopeful.

 

[JamminVMI]

Please be careful. Saga and Freya use a completely different Tube topology. Saga is a unity gain tube buffer vs. Freya tube stage which is a real gain stage running on 300v rails. Might be a good question for Schiit before you attempt firing it up without tubes.

FYI, I asked the folks at Schiit, and they did say not to run Saga sans tube...

 

[earnmyturns]

Without becoming a target for the Pi-people, let me add that as a former Raspberry Pi Roon endpoint user, much better SQ can be attained by using a different solution. I use a Sonore Ultrarendu and it sounds much better than the Pi I had.

Pi USB by itself is terrible. Pi with the right hat is a whole different story. My Pi + Pi 2 Designs 502DAC S/PDIF source with a cheap LPS (total cost ~$300) is almost as good as the > $1K Metrum Ambre. Now, the Ambre sending I2S to the Metrum Onyx, that's another solid step up. But that's a very special combo.

For current Schiit modular multibit DACs, S/PDIF (coax or AES depending on model) is still the best source in my experience. If and when the new USB Unison card emerges, the story might change. I'm optimistic.

 

[earnmyturns]

Silly? Who has high hopes?
I just was wondering if that might be something which would be less expensive than a Vidar, but more powerful than a Magni 3 for small speaker systems-- indeed.

If you search the forums again, you'll find comments by the Schiit co-founders about class D to the effect that current implementations are problematic, but an implementation with a much higher switching frequency may be worth pursuing. As a former owner a well-regarded class D amp (from Bel Canto) who switched to a beefy class AB (from Hegel), I can say that the liveness of analog amplification over even upper-tier class D is very real. I suspect that something about how class D dumps high frequencies downstream makes a hash out of microdetails and fast transients, even though test bench measurements look wonderful. OTOH, if the switching frequencies were much higher, they'd be damped much more strongly by downstream LC characteristics and magic would happen. Who knows.

 

[earnmyturns]

I estimate REAL hi-res media available less than 5% of the total, redbook shall outnumber it by far in almost every genre of music

OTOH, > 50% of new music I buy/stream from Qobuz is hi-res.

 

[rkw]

a long time ago someone discovered that CDs made from tape originals sounded better than CDs made via an all digital path. That's how dithering was discovered, or so I've heard.

Dithering has other applications besides digital audio, e.g. imaging. Dithering been in use since World War II.

 

[Derrick Swart]

OTOH, > 50% of new music I buy/stream from Qobuz is hi-res.

Marketing is a science and works