[ScubaMan2017]

He is talking about the output transistors.

If I understand it, all those clicking noises were the internal switches inside the unit. Damn! That is a hell of a machine to assemble with lots of fussing, poking, and prodding. And yet it assembles into an elegantly-fitted-fanless-system. Amazing.

Yes.

This is in a whole other league from the Magni/Modi family (I have all of them). I don't remember the Asgard's knobs being so warm at RMAF when they were shown, and certainly Raggy and Mjolnir didn't get toasty there. (The Asgard 2 wasn't at the show this year. Read into that what you will.)

If I had a FLIR camera, I'd take a picture of it. The case getting that hot was expected. The manual makes a point of mentioning it. The knob, though? I wasn't expecting that.

I’m enjoying the hell out of my little toaster (Vali 2). And you’re right, these little brushed-aluminum boxes are their own little ecosystem. I have a big hangup about warm-hot electronics. I suspect its a carry-over from my (mis)understanding of Ohm’s Law, and computer assemblies. Too hot? Put cooling fins on it. Still too hot? Install umpteen-PC-box-fans. Overclocking? Water cooling. That’s my preconception - not Schiit Audio. I’ll take Mr. Stoddard’s advice and educate myself.

There has been a ton of discussion here about setting up a network music system, so I though I'd share some info about how to make it easy. Please note I have no interest in the products I am about to mention except that I have used them both.


Let's assume you want to set up a music server in your home. You want to stream audio from the Internet and/or from a service like Tidal, and you have music files on a hard drive or NAS that you'd like to play. You have decided that you want to use Roon to control your system. Here are two solutions that are as close to plug and play as possible, and which require no computer knowledge or special skills. They only require a little money.


The two devices I have in mind are the Roon Nucleus and the Elac Discovery. Both are music server computers in nice compact cases. Both are silent with no fans or rotating hard drives so they can be placed right in your rack as part of a music-oriented system. Both come pre-loaded with a version of Roon but only the Discovery allows you to avoid subscription fees. And both are readily available for just over a $1000 investment (as of this writing the Discovery is $1100 and the Nucleus is $1400 on Amazon.) With Nucleus you’ll have to also pay the $500 lifetime Roon license so consider that.


Here's how you use them: You plug them in to power and the Internet as part of an Ethernet network (neither offers wireless.) You connect them to your music system (more on that in a bit.) You either plug in a USB hard drive or NAS holding your music (or you direct them to the folder containing your music elsewhere on your home network.) You download a control app to your PC, Mac, tablet or phone, or all of these, log into your Tidal account if you choose to go that way or select the local track you want to hear, and you begin playing music. No Pi DIY, no special computer knowledge required, no difficult setup (although there is a little bit of setup, but even a novice should be able to do it.) That's it. Except for the cost nothing could be easier.


What is the difference between the two?


The Nucleus is a Roon server with one USB or HDMI digital output so it must be used with a receiver/preamp or external DAC that accepts one of these. The Discovery is a Roon server with USB and S/PDIF digital outputs but it also has dual analog outputs, meaning it has two (decent sounding but not great) DACs built in so it can be connected to an analog input of a music system making it more flexible. Also, the three outputs on the Discovery (digital, analog 1 and analog 2) appear as different "endpoints" (Roon-speak for player) in the Roon app and can be controlled separately, meaning you actually have three different players available. You could connect the digital out to your main music system and one of the analogs to a second zone and use them both at the same time, playing the same or different content. The digital outputs on both sound pretty much the same and the quality you hear will be dependent on what you connect them to. The analog outs on the Discovery sound to me as good as a mid-level CD player. Acceptable and listenable but can be improved upon. Nucleus comes with a full version of Roon and Discovery with Roon Essentials. The notable difference between the two is Essentials has a max local library size limit of 100,000 tracks and does not support DSD nor multichannel audio via HDMI.


Both devices are Roon servers, so if you have other endpoints in your home they can all be "seen" and controlled from the app and can all access whatever music is connected to the server.


There are many other solutions, and many that can be cheaper. But in my opinion if you want to get into the network music game as easily as possible, one of these is a good solution.

I was hoping to go simple and cheap. I suspect I’d be a penny-wise, and dollar-fool. I appreciate the suggestions, eh.

I think their next company should be called "Unicorn Tears, Inc."

+1 Heh.

The problem is, people still freak out about "warm," thinking OMG HEAT IS THE ENEMY OF ELECTRONICS ARGH ARGH GONNA DIE HOLY CRAP! because they read it somewhere on the intartubes. This, despite the fact that the heat from their Surface Pro means they don't use it on their lap and their phone heats up in their hand when they're running some GPS-based stuff in the boonies.

I've written about this before, but learn a bit about capacitor temperature derating before you freak out. Also, the temperatures at which semiconductor junctions start spontaneously degrading are far, far above what any sane manufacturer will run--they would literally be out of business from service demands in a couple of years if they ran stuff that close to the edge.

If you want something that runs damn near cold, there's always Modi 3 and Fulla 2.

Unfortunately, I might be adding to the hysteria about heat and electronics. I teach Ohm’s Law to my grade 9 students and factors that affect R. In grade 11 physics (here in Ontario) we then go into the nuances of Ohm’s Law. And then the IT teacher gets her claws on their minds with respect to breadboard building and trouble-shooting. I suspect we’re pumping out cohorts of freshly-minted grads that indeed believe OMG HEAT IS THE ENEMY OF ELECTRONICS... DROP THE DILITHIUM CORE... INITIATE SAUCER-SEPARATION... EJECT... EJECT. No @Jason Stoddard ... the instigators might be “us”. I think I’m going to take your advice and read up about “capacity temperature derating” before I teach that chapter.

 

[ScubaMan2017]

Since You asked, I doubt many know this one:

Unfortunately, this disc is out of print. Raga Yaman is considered one of the simplest Ragas and this performance has a stately enough pace that even a novice can follow the fractal progressions as they slowly expand and then contract during the performance.

Raga Yaman is an evening Raga and historically is not played before the disc of sun has begun to touch the horizon. So settle down, preferably where you can watch the sunset and enjoy.

Haunting. Sampling it while the sun rises here in the big smoke. Whoah. Cheers, eh.

 

[ScubaMan2017]

I have one of Anoushka Shankar’s discs which I love, so this sounds great. The game is afoot!

...and just like that, I went online to borrow a CD of a London Philharmonic Orchestra & Shankar collaboration. I just felt my worldview expand a notch. Nice.

 

[sam6550a]

So my b stock box o schiit arrived around 12:30 today. Sadly it took until almost midnight to get it unboxed, hooked up, and turned on.

Sounds good, but man that transformer in Vidar sure does hum. Or is loud, not sure if the two are the same. I should clarify, I can hear transformer with nothing else on in the room, and hear it with the sounds of traffic or flying geese coming through the walls. As Soon as i start playing music the transformer sound disappears, even with saga at 0 volume. I wont be using it as just a heater anyway.

Also my speakers hum too, fairly loudly. I did a search on Google and found a link about identifying and eliminating hum (from ps audio). They even have an audio clip identifying two common types of hum. Ground loop at 120hz and hum caused by equipment interference at 60hz.

Sounds like I have equipment interference hum through my speakers, which makes sense since it's all stacked together on my workbench, with a rats nest of cables behind it.



So I'll live with it until I move into my living room, buy better interconnects, and get the rig separated. I'm not going to worry about it right now.

I noticed the speakers pop a bit after the startup sequence has finished, and after Vidar has been powered down. Is that caused by the hum? Should I be worried about it?

SQ wise I'm very happy, a half hour in. Have definitely heard some things I've not caught before. Started with Hotel California, (I'm my fathers son), and had a smile on my face after about two minutes (only two beers in). Soundstage, imaging, bass, treble, mids all great. Glad I kept my speakers to see what a good system could do with them. Noticibly better then my old jvc. Vidar is heavy, which I like, fins are sharp, them binding posts are awesome.

Two things i was surprised about, both regarding Saga. Volume all the way down and I can still hear music. I also got an old style remote #bstocklife. For whatever reason I assumed I was going to get a new style remote (I have no idea when the new remotes were introduced).

Jason mentioned earlier today that Asgard 2 is very very reliable. I'd be interested in hearing a chapter about QC, warranty claim rate vs actual failure rate, third parties raising cane about SQ & build quality, (whether illegitimate or not), perception vs reality, etc. I'm sure he's got multiple chapters of material on those fronts. Trials and tribulations.

All in all a good hour with schiit. Sad I need to be up in 6 hours, otherwise I'd stay up and enjoy this schiit more.

May I suggest that you NOT place anything on top of Vidar---it impedes the heatsink and chassis convection airflow, and also enables magnetic field coupling between Vidar's big transformer ans whatever you stack on Vidar--like Saga. Separate them, and see if the results are the same.

 

[Robert Padgett]

[QUOTE="ScubaMan2017, post: 14556999, member: 474344"
No Pi DIY, no special computer knowledge required, no difficult setup (although there is a little bit of setup, even a novice should be able to do it.) That's it. Except for the cost, nothing could be easier.
[/QUOTE]

Assuming you have over $2,000 to invest in Roon based System.

My Raspberry Pi system is so very simple that you can do it without extensive computer knowledge. RaspberryPi by itself can be a USB end-point at a cost $35 (plus a plastic case if you want.) If you want SPDIF output, you need an Allo DigiOne HAT which attaches directly to the RasPi. The extent of the computer ability requires you to edit a single line in the Config.txt file which directs the signal to the Allo. If you choose to attach a DAC (Boss), that will cost $65. Again, the addition of one line in the config.txt file.

I use OpenSSH - server which is open source, and the only requirement is that you sign in, from the end-points to access the server files. I will be happy yo walk you through this, it is a simple yet elegant solution to the deep dark world of networking your music system, and leaves over $2,000 in your pocket to buy better Schiit.

 

[quimbo]

Nice MMW with Nels Cline disc - https://www.allmusic.com/album/woodstock-sessions-vol-2-mw0002641240

 

[Rensek]

I dont have personal experience on the Vidar but I remember thecomputeraidiophile switch to a different speaker cable to remove the loudspeaker hum. Read the section on his test with the Focal Sopra

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/ca/reviews/schiit-audio-reference-system-review-part-2-r690/

Yeah I read about that too, believe Jason even talked about it on this thread at one point. I believe that guy was using cables that cost thousands of dollars. I'm using stranded ofc copper from Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0758CSSF2?psc=1&ref=yo_pop_mb_pd_title

May I suggest that you NOT place anything on top of Vidar---it impedes the heatsink and chassis convection airflow, and also enables magnetic field coupling between Vidar's big transformer and whatever you stack on Vidar--like Saga. Separate them, and see if the results are the same.

Thanks, yeah I was thinking the same thing. I wanted a photo with the stack altogether. I'll try separating components tonight.

 

[Ableza]

One more comment about heat and consumer electronics - or at least consumer audio products. All good designers will include some sort of thermal shutdown in gear that might overheat while in use. If your gear is not shutting down, then it is operating within its design parameters and you are fine, it is not getting 'too hot."

 

[bagwell359]

I've had two Schiit questions for some time, but before I invoke JS, I'll ask here of everyone else.

1. If you have a circa early 2015 Ragnarok that is well ventilated in a room that's mostly 68F. Is is more likely to get to 2025 working well if I:

* turn it on/off about 5 times a week and run it 2-3 hrs per use
or
* leave it on all the time, except when electrical storms are nearby (~12/yr), and rewiring (< 4/yr)

It's basically current coming in on a cold amp, and changes in temp (<>) of the items in the amp vs a steady state temp wise

2. What is done to change betweeb the 3 gain stages in the Ragnarok? I Understand it puts out 4 wpc Class A in all stages. Gain 1->2 sure sounds like a pre-amp toggling passive/active output stage. Gain 2->3 seems like perhaps strapping, or changing bias of some sort. I love #1, but the bass impact isn't there, like a passive, #2 seems to be the workhorse for most situations and #3 for speakers that need more juice than #2 can provide.

Thanks for any responses.

 

[judson_w]

Hi Guys Just one question,

Theres no B stock in European schiit dealers?

This is a stab in the dark in my part. If the dealers have their own stock that they ship from in order to help cut shipping and customs costs for the customers, Schiit probably does not ship B Stock out to the distributors.

 

[audio philestine]

Nice MMW with Nels Cline disc - https://www.allmusic.com/album/woodstock-sessions-vol-2-mw0002641240

Thanks for the recommendation, I wasn't aware of that one and it sounds interesting. Time to go grab a copy and give it a listen.

 

[33na3rd]

I noticed the speakers pop a bit after the startup sequence has finished, and after Vidar has been powered down. Is that caused by the hum? Should I be worried about it?

That's a normal sound. That's the protection relay engaging after a brief warm up, and disengaging when powering down.

I realize that you only stacked everything for the photo, but as others have said, Vidar needs room to breath. Vidar's large transformer can induce noise into sensitive components if placed too closely.

Enjoy your new gear!

 

[Pedro Janeiro]

This is a stab in the dark in my part. If the dealers have their own stock that they ship from in order to help cut shipping and customs costs for the customers, Schiit probably does not ship B Stock out to the distributors.

Just asking cause i saw 2 B-stock 230V Ragnarok at www.schiit.com, at almost half price schiit europe asks for a new one. so probably would be nice that 230V stock be available here too

What do you recomend guys, Modi MB or wait for Modi MB with new schiit usb (will be a long waiting?)

cheers

 

[Ableza]

I've had two Schiit questions for some time, but before I invoke JS, I'll ask here of everyone else.

1. If you have a circa early 2015 Ragnarok that is well ventilated in a room that's mostly 68F. Is is more likely to get to 2025 working well if I:

* turn it on/off about 5 times a week and run it 2-3 hrs per use
or
* leave it on all the time, except when electrical storms are nearby (~12/yr), and rewiring (< 4/yr)

It's basically current coming in on a cold amp, and changes in temp (<>) of the items in the amp vs a steady state temp wise

2. What is done to change betweeb the 3 gain stages in the Ragnarok? I Understand it puts out 4 wpc Class A in all stages. Gain 1->2 sure sounds like a pre-amp toggling passive/active output stage. Gain 2->3 seems like perhaps strapping, or changing bias of some sort. I love #1, but the bass impact isn't there, like a passive, #2 seems to be the workhorse for most situations and #3 for speakers that need more juice than #2 can provide.

Thanks for any responses.

In my opinion, turn your amplifier on and off as needed without issue. Not being a Ragnarok owner I can't speak to the gain question.

 

[artur9]

I will be happy yo walk you through this, it is a simple yet elegant solution to the deep dark world of networking your music system, and leaves over $2,000 in your pocket to buy better Schiit.

I've done that. It's nowhere near as easy as you make out.