[David Aldrich]

I'd like to see a Wyrd that integrated better with other lines than the $99 line, some fancy power supply/weird box for BiFrost/Amp sized boxes, don't know about he Mjolnir/Gungnir, they already have dedicated power, maybe a pass through box with a 1-2 IEC wye and a USB cleaner.

 

[superjawes]

I have two ideas on how Wyrd might make a USB DAC sound "better":

1. Noise. I could see a "normal" USB setup carrying noise from the port into a DAC, and the analog stage picks up that noise, passing it to the amp. While the information is the same from a digital perspective, a "dirty" signal might add more noise to the signal path than a clean one. Clean the signal with Wyrd, get a cleaner analog out. (Of course, I have no measurements to back this up...)

2. It lowers the number of bit errors. Yes, this is kind of related to noise (noise is what causes a bit to be read incorrectly because it crosses the threshold), but in this case it is a digital problem instead of an analog one. While the packet might be received, if a bit gets flipped, then the end result isn't what was intended. It might be one bit out of thousands, but they can add up. Eliminate the bit errors and the audio is "more correct" on the output.

Although now that I think out it, #2 doesn't seem right because USB uses differential keying. In order to get a true bit error, both the + and - signal would have to be getting completely different noise. That isn't impossible, but it's very unlikely...in fact, that's why you use twisted-pair differential keying to begin with.

Wyrd, indeed.

 

[jlemoine2]

Does the optical MODI (or other optical input DACs) equal in perceived sound quality as the USB MODI + WYRD? I realize this is subjective.
 
Jason mentioned there seems to be a lower noise floor and more depth to the tracks with WYRD. Is optical input the same? I would imagine so if WYRD is only fixing problems that are native to USB.

 

[Jason Stoddard]

   
Jason, do you feel like this sort of pain is just a teething pain that goes away, or is there a higher-than-anticipated cost that needs to be integrated into the product? I understand this might be the sort of question you aren't interested in answering, but my gut when I read this is (in my imaginary Jason voice) you saying something like "crap, we need to charge more for this."

It's a little of both: teething pain (getting the processes right, so errors don't "stack" at the end, plus some reallocation of what's done at the board house and what's done in-house.) I think we're at the point of getting the processes right, and we have a plan to streamline production by having the PCB assembly house take on some of the tedious wiring stuff, so things are getting better. No plan to increase the price.

 

[RickB]

Count me as one of those who hears a difference (for the better) with Wyrd in my system. It's noticeable with Asgard 2, but the Vali sounds really sweet with it. Both using Modi as DAC.

 

[Jones Bob]

Glad I purchased a Wyrd yesterday from Schiit and got my shipping notice today.

 

[atubbs]

...

2. It lowers the number of bit errors. Yes, this is kind of related to noise (noise is what causes a bit to be read incorrectly because it crosses the threshold), but in this case it is a digital problem instead of an analog one. While the packet might be received, if a bit gets flipped, then the end result isn't what was intended. It might be one bit out of thousands, but they can add up. Eliminate the bit errors and the audio is "more correct" on the output.

Although now that I think out it, #2 doesn't seem right because USB uses differential keying. In order to get a true bit error, both the + and - signal would have to be getting completely different noise. That isn't impossible, but it's very unlikely...in fact, that's why you use twisted-pair differential keying to begin with.
...

 
Not to spend too much time on the "objective" side of this debate, but I'm pretty sure any of the relevant USB packets carry a CRC block. In theory, the bits are being sent along perfectly or they are not. If a bit was flipped, the CRC would indicate this. The odds of a bunch of random bit failures that would also pass a similarly randomly failed CRC get into the statistically irrelevant range (I haven't checked the math on this, but feel pretty confident about it). Essentially, there should not be a scenario where the bits being pulled from a USB packet and put into some chip are wrong.

 

[BackToAnalogue]

I am really enjoying reading this stuff and it has answered many previously unanswered questions. I think it is quite amazing that you are so open with your technical and manufacturing process innovations. That is unheard of these days. You either know that you are so far ahead of the competition that they can never catch up, or you are stashing away money to prosecute a bucket load of IPR infringement law suites in a couple of years time :>).

For anyone that is interested in USB 2.0 ASync I have posted a couple of explanations in this thread.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/457844/does-the-usb-cable-matter-usb-dacs/90

Along with some tips on testing your setup and how to troubleshoot the more common problems. But in short, stop worrying about it. It either works or it doesn't and it will eliminate the jitter which was almost entirely caused by SPDIF. Read Jason's explanation about Jitter and SPDIF, get rid of SPDIF and you can forget about jitter to all intents and purposes.


Schiit do not claim that the Wyrd makes anything sound better, just that it may eliminate some of the gliches which can happen with directly powered USB. BTW to a software engineer, a gliche and data corruption are not the same thing. Data corruption doesn't happen because there are engineering solutions which detect it and correct it. Gliches do happen because software engineers always leave a few bugs in their code for the next guy to fix.

 

[johnjen]

Using my PSA PWD mk-II with both usb and cat7 data path connections I could easily switch between these 2 inputs and compare the acoustic presentation on the same tracks back to back.
 
cat7 was always clearly superior to the 'straight' usb data path.
Then I added an AudioQuest coffee usb cable and it helped close the gap.
Then I added Wyrd and the gap closed up even more.
Enough so that it was really close and hard to tell which was 'better'.
 
Then I cooked the usb cables and that pushed it over the top.
usb was now a contendah…  
And for the first time I could use a 'real' player with full features (dsp, and gapless etc.) and have the same (or better!) SQ from usb.
 
This has opened up yet further experiments which have also borne fruit, a DIY'rs dream come true…

 
Bottom line is, usb is now clearly 'better' than the cat7 when used as a data path to the dac.
 
But an interesting observation is the differences between the strictly digital data paths of cat7 vs. usb, sound like analog coloration, like tube rolling, or cables or…
 
Which is NOT something I would have expected, to be able to tailor the sound to suit my preferences all based upon tweaking the digital data path from the computer to the dac.
 
Who'd a thunk it?
 
JJ
ps the Wyrd is a GREAT solution to help with usb 'issues', and when coupled with other tweaks can really help clean things up!  AND it’s a MAJOR BARGAIN to boot.
And youze guys solved a problem you didn't even know existed…  :thumb  :thumb

 

[jexby]

So.... would Wyrd become part of USB Gen 3 upgrade sometime in a future?

Dang well better!
Ha!
I asked Jason for this at RMAF. "No Comment."

 

[drez]

  *And a final big aside, for everyone: If insanity is defined by the ability to hold two completely contradictory ideas in your head and accept both of them, then me, Mike, and Dave are all completely bonkers. Because we run into this same objective/subjective thing all the time.
 

 
"[T]he test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function."
 
F. Scott Fitzgerald

 

[nbrowser]

hrm it would appear to me that Wyrd is a product of...
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/2700#post_10888508
 
R&D, play time, this product makes sense on that account.

 

[catspaw]

   
"[T]he test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function."
 
F. Scott Fitzgerald

And the definition of Insanity is repeating the same action and expecting a different result .
 
Yet let us not remmber the talk between Jack Sparrow and.. Legolas:
 
-This is either madness or brilliance.
-Its remarkable how often those two terms coincide.

 

[gikigill]

Also known as Cognitive Dissonance.

 

[tonykaz]

A Philosophical Shift at Schiit , 
 Previously , all these little Cabling type things amounted to Black Magic , Magic Dusts and Carnival Pitch-men selling dubious solutions to the confused and hopeful .  Now , Cable interface technology moves the performance needle for our loved and admired Guru . This brings to mind the Age Old Maxim : "A wise man will change his mind but a fool never will"  .  
  This "P&A" ( parts and accessories ) is an established path to profitability , no company I'm aware of ever regretted taking it , do it right and it will pay all Overheads + .
  In for a Penny - In for a Pound 
 Tony in Michigan