[514077]

 
Hello JonnyCanuk ,
 
No DSD and good riddance .   
 
Did you happen to notice any of coverage of the recent AES show in LA ?  
 
You'll get a nice Show Report from Mark Waldrips Site ,
 
DSD was covered in Depth ( if you don't mind the quip ) .  
 
An interesting tid-bit is that Cookie Morenco of Blue Coast is actually recording on Tape ! she then converts to DSD directly .   She is the only Player in DSD that isn't originating in PCM and converting to  DSD .    
 
So I'm considering all this DSD to be nonsense from the Sizzle Sellers .   The Big Guys , RCA etc. aren't playing the DSD Scam ! , they don't seem to have the time to fool around with this nonsense .  IMO
 
Thanks for Writing ,
 
Tony in Mich

Hi Tony:
Would you happen to have a link to that report?  I'll try to google it and see....

 

[tonykaz]

Hello Again Mr. AManand88keys ,
 
You seem to have owned a wide range of electronics , as have I .    One of the main reasons I'm pining for a Super DAC is to hear Piano reproduced .   I have a Gene Harris collection for that wonderful playing of that Steinway ( itself a mega $ Super Expensive instrument ) , other Steinway Artists I also love and collect , maybe even some of your recordings , I love the music from the Piano !    Have you a DAC that does justice to the Piano , something you might recommend ? 
  I now own a few Consumer DACs that are ok but not as outstanding as the Big MSB unit I heard ( $$,$$$ ) ouch .   I have some Michael Jones Piano recordings ( he plays a Yamaha ) that are not easy to listen to , tons of Reverb , however the MSB does clear that up somehow , so I'm figuring I have a DAC limitation to enjoying of Piano and Drum Kits ( which don't quite come across properly thru a modest DAC ) .
  The really good stuff like the Steinway does in fact cost a Fortune , too bad but thats the reality , I don't like it but I accept it .   
   For now , I'm a Schiit / Sennheiser man 
  Tony in Michigan 

 

[tonykaz]

Hello ,
 
Mark Waldrip is Professor in the California University System , he also is AIX Records and does a bunch of other things , he's on the Board for AES , he's Professor of Recording Sciences at UCLA and writes a Blog called HDtracks I think .  
  The Professional side of music recording has mostly straight shooters and truth tellers , sizzle doesn't get far in Pro-Audio ( like it does in Consumer Stuff ) .  NwAvGuy was from the Pro segment .  
 
Tony in Michigan 

 

[judmarc]

 
She is the only Player in DSD that isn't originating in PCM and converting to  DSD .
 
Tony in Mich

 
A little overly sweeping.
 
- Nothing these days "originates in PCM."  Even boutique labels like Norway's 2L use ADCs with SDM that can be converted to PCM at the user's option (and is converted for the vast majority).
 
- However, even those folks like Cookie, or Jared Sacks of Channel Classics, and others who take the SDM result and put out DSD recordings *usually* must do the types of editing/mixing that currently require the DSD bitstream to be converted to PCM.  So most "DSD" recordings even from these boutique labels go through a conversion from DSD (or SD modulated) to PCM for editing/mixing, then conversion back to DSD.  Cookie sometimes uses editing in the analog domain (tape) instead of conversion between SDM and PCM.
 
- A very few recordings from the boutique labels need only the rudimentary mixing that can currently be done in SDM workstations, so these recordings remain SDM all the way through the process.
 
- For older stuff, as long as remastering isn't needed, analog tape to DSD is a route some people are using.

 

[Nersh7]

THANK YOU JASON,
 
I've been lurking here for months now (since the toilet paper dac chapter) and love coming back every week to read the latest chapter.  I love your philosophy, your products, your marketing, in all honesty pretty much everything about the company.  I even bough a Valhalla 2 last night!  I think the manufacturers of the world have a lot to learn here and hopefully more will end up adapting to the business practices that are done at Schiit.  
 
Just to say it as simply as possible:  Thank you.

 

[tonykaz]

Well , ok , thank you for the detail and for trying to help us understand .   I hope there won't be a test in the morning .  
 
You are correct in realizing the "Overly Sweeping" in my summary , somehow a generalization helps in grasping for understanding when very little is actually understood or understandable .  A person needs to work in the Recording Industry in order to properly reason on all that's going on there and how it affects us who only try to enjoy the resulting work .  
  In Summary , from what I can understand , DSD is not a product the marketplace is being directed to , it may become a niche or it may fade into history as a memory of something possible .  
  The larger reality is that Apple and iTunes consider the Consumer to be quite happy with the lower resolutions , no need to do better , just yet .   
  Maybe the Movie Industry will continue doing big sounds but only us Audiophiles are pursuing great music reproduction , as we always seemed to have been .   
 The Studios are capable and do deliver outstanding results , we hobbyists will reproduce their musical work "on a budget" , a small budget , a budget that Schiit seems to resonate with .  
   Thank you again,
  Tony in Michigan 
 
ps. on this Schiit pricing level :
   The Sound System in my Wife's car costs more than the Combined cost of both Schiit's newest Big Offerings , how can it not be thought of as good value for money ? 

 

[AManAnd88Keys]

 
Hello Again Mr. AManand88keys ,
 
You seem to have owned a wide range of electronics , as have I .    One of the main reasons I'm pining for a Super DAC is to hear Piano reproduced .   I have a Gene Harris collection for that wonderful playing of that Steinway ( itself a mega $ Super Expensive instrument ) , other Steinway Artists I also love and collect , maybe even some of your recordings , I love the music from the Piano !    Have you a DAC that does justice to the Piano , something you might recommend ? 
  I now own a few Consumer DACs that are ok but not as outstanding as the Big MSB unit I heard ( $$,$$$ ) ouch .   I have some Michael Jones Piano recordings ( he plays a Yamaha ) that are not easy to listen to , tons of Reverb , however the MSB does clear that up somehow , so I'm figuring I have a DAC limitation to enjoying of Piano and Drum Kits ( which don't quite come across properly thru a modest DAC ) .
  The really good stuff like the Steinway does in fact cost a Fortune , too bad but thats the reality , I don't like it but I accept it .   
   For now , I'm a Schiit / Sennheiser man 
  Tony in Michigan 

Hey Tony,
 
nice coincidence, I am a hobby pianist and for some time I studied jazz piano at a conservatory in Vienna.
Piano is important for me too, as you might guess

and it's not so easy to reproduce correctly. But in all honesty, I think that it's less about the DAC and much much more about the rest of your audio chain and the quality of the recording. 
 
A few weeks ago I visited a horn speaker manufacturer, a great guy and total speaker maniac. I had plenty of time to listen to his beauties, some of them worth 25k or even more. Now guess what the cost of the other components was... a Cayin DAC 11, some Dynavox amplifiers and not much more. Nothing truly expensive! What I heard though was absolutely beautiful to plain jawdropping at times. Great recordings on a setup with good synergy, that's what it's about imho.

 

[tonykaz]

Yes , thank you .   I have worked with horns , I've built a few , they are quite handy and easy on amplification but need Wife approval , which is not so easy , I do love the flowingness from Horns , I once built a quick pair out of appliance boxes and heat glue gun , simple drivers from anything can work wonders .   
  You're man that makes those beautiful wooden Horns does put on quite a demo .  That Cayin stuff is pricy , as pricy or a bit more than the Best Schiit stuff and no distribution here in the States .   
  On the whole , the Europeans seem to justify buying nice music stuff , I don't know why that is .   I imported Meridian , back in the day , it was beautiful but the USA buyers tended to the much lesser Bose box speakers .  I see many European Audio products that seem to perform as a person would expect from Pro equipment , Electrocompaniet being another that comes to mind .  
  If you are based in Europe you are probably safe investing in Cayin or any of the other Bright offerings you will find but here in the USA the Importers have a hard time staying in business and finding outlets for superb Audio , sadly .  
  There is one Cayin DAC 11 for sale , on ebay , $695 USDollars , New , from China !!!   China ? , is it real or clone ? oh-dear .  From Europe one will cost about 1,200 Euro + shipping + 19% tax of some kind .   See ? there are barriers to exploring these products on a hunch , payoff could be good or maybe not .  
  Quality of recording is what I'm trying to discover , which is why I'm hunting for a Pro Level DAC .   I consider the DAC to be a Phono Cartridge type of transducer , turning bits into analog , AC , music .  I've heard a superb DAC and now I can't live without one .  
  I just heard Allan Toussaint the other day , there are more wonderful musicians everywhere , just popping up out of nowhere , I need their musics .  
 
Tony in Michigan

 

[Don Hills]

 ...  writes a Blog called HDtracks I think .  ...

 
http://www.realhd-audio.com/

 

[AManAnd88Keys]

 
Yes , thank you .   I have worked with horns , I've built a few , they are quite handy and easy on amplification but need Wife approval , which is not so easy , I do love the flowingness from Horns , I once built a quick pair out of appliance boxes and heat glue gun , simple drivers from anything can work wonders .   
  You're man that makes those beautiful wooden Horns does put on quite a demo .  That Cayin stuff is pricy , as pricy or a bit more than the Best Schiit stuff and no distribution here in the States .   
  On the whole , the Europeans seem to justify buying nice music stuff , I don't know why that is .   I imported Meridian , back in the day , it was beautiful but the USA buyers tended to the much lesser Bose box speakers .  I see many European Audio products that seem to perform as a person would expect from Pro equipment , Electrocompaniet being another that comes to mind .  
  If you are based in Europe you are probably safe investing in Cayin or any of the other Bright offerings you will find but here in the USA the Importers have a hard time staying in business and finding outlets for superb Audio , sadly .  
  There is one Cayin DAC 11 for sale , on ebay , $695 USDollars , New , from China !!!   China ? , is it real or clone ? oh-dear .  From Europe one will cost about 1,200 Euro + shipping + 19% tax of some kind .   See ? there are barriers to exploring these products on a hunch , payoff could be good or maybe not .  
  Quality of recording is what I'm trying to discover , which is why I'm hunting for a Pro Level DAC .   I consider the DAC to be a Phono Cartridge type of transducer , turning bits into analog , AC , music .  I've heard a superb DAC and now I can't live without one .  
  I just heard Allan Toussaint the other day , there are more wonderful musicians everywhere , just popping up out of nowhere , I need their musics .  
 
Tony in Michigan

What I meant to say was that a Cayin DAC11 is not a high-end DAC, and a far cry from the MSB stuff. The Dynavox amps are entry-level stuff. It was a whole different situation than what many people would recommend for speakers of this level ("at least half as much for the amp" or whatever...).
Cayin (Spark) is a chinese brand by the way, one of the better ones. They don't make copies.
Forgot to mention, Schiit stuff here is not that cheap either. It's basically a direct 1:1 $ to € conversion ... But I am sure that a Gungnir would have been very nice with those horns

 

 

[tonykaz]

Oh , I somehow thought it was German .  
anyway , thanks . 
   Tony

 

[tonykaz]

Good , you found him , he's a good read .
 
Tony

 

[AManAnd88Keys]

 
Oh , I somehow thought it was German .  
anyway , thanks . 
   Tony

Looks like I have to correct myself. Seems they are a german company manufacturing in China or the german branch of a chinese company, selling products designed for the european market

it's a bit confusing to me. Anyway, enough off-topic chatter!

 

[Ableza]

"Zhuhai Spark Electronic Equipment Co., LTD has been established since 1993 under the investment of AVIC INTERNATIONAL ZHUHAI CO., LTD for designing and manufacturing professional HI-FI audio equipments. We are devoted to design and research of hi-end level of audio equipments under our own brandname Cayin with our intellectual property rights."  http://en.cayin.cn/index.asp
 
In any case, they ain't Schiit.

 

[tonykaz]

It's not that far off topic .   
Sennheiser as an example :    Sennheiser commits to support for LIFETIME  ! 
 
We in the States have outfits that source in China who's products are not at all supportable , we call these products "throw aways" , meaning you throw them away when they don't work .   China sourced products are price driven not long term ownership driven . 
 
Has anyone ever shipped anything back to China for service ? .  Please , anyone , pitch in here , can China stuff be serviced ?
  Apple will support their China made stuff , for a time but for how long ? Who else does this ?  Canon ?  Usually these outfits just replace with a new fresh item and let it go at that  .   
 
Can anyone think that they could even locate the China outfit that actually made the item ?  
 
This is one of the KEY basis points behind the Schiit outfit proving that traditional local manufacturing can compete with the Chinese products and why so many little people are proud to own Schiit .  The headphone club meets are filled with Schiit stuff and people planning to buy more ( including me )  and why I want a T-shirt with the Schiit logo on it ( no slogans or product name )  just "Made in USA" in small letters !  It's not just Patriotism it's us little people being able , it's us little people being successful , it's us little people proving to the world that : "we are in fact good enough to do quality work" .   
  
Schiit is our way of giving the finger to those outfits that sent our work overseas ,  so , I suppose , "i'm mad as Hell and I'm doing something about it" .   
 
On top of all that , I want Schiit Headphones , Schiit Clothes , Schiit tires for my Bicycle and a Schiit bicycle and everything else the Corporations make overseas . 
 
Sorry , but not quite , for the RANT 
 
Tony in Michigan