[jeremy205100]

Very impressive. A few questions though, if you feel like answering them:
 
1) How the hell do you do this for only $1699? This appears to be more complicated (but better) than a lot of the NAD amplifiers that are $4,000, plus the usual Schiit that it looks way better and is better built. Plus you guys said you're making these to order (makes sense, although apparently a ton of people want one), so you're not getting the bulk manufacturing savings.
 
2) Whenever you add in more software, as you said, you open up the product to more potential issues. Do you guys have any plans of fixing shipped Ragnaroks (not the beta ones) if you guys find a bug months or years down the road? 
 
3) When a prototype goes bad does smoke literally come out of it? I'm assuming you have fire extinguishers to put out the fires?
 
I'm glad to see that Schiit considers endgame $1699 and not $1000000000000000 like some other brands. That way serious audiophiles who have space for this can actually get their hands on it.

 

[jeremy205100]

   
Speak for yourself!
 
I'm sure many international customers find this very useful.

I didn't say there shouldn't be a 230V version. But most competing products have a switch on the product itself, which I find a waste. I guess if you move around a lot that'd be worthwhile, but as a pretty stationary American I guess it's just useless to me. 

 

[Matias]

I didn't say there shouldn't be a 230V version. But most competing products have a switch on the product itself, which I find a waste. I guess if you move around a lot that'd be worthwhile, but as a pretty stationary American I guess it's just useless to me. 

Having voltage switches makes one less model version to control in inventory (SKU) in order to meet all countries. Plus the resale value (and sale value consequentially) go up because people can buy used from other countries. The company is bigger than US only.

 

[superjawes]

Having voltage switches makes one less model version to control in inventory (SKU) in order to meet all countries. Plus the resale value (and sale value consequentially) go up because people can buy used from other countries. The company is bigger than US only.

First off, you wouldn't entirely avoid a second SKU since the plugs are different as well. Different power cords might seem minor, but they still have to be packaged with the amp, so you still have the complexity in the warehouse.

More importantly, I'm pretty sure you have to have a different transformer to step down from 230V than you would for 115V, and that means more stuff in the chassis and more weight to a product that already weighs over 30 lbs.

Just because it makes sense from a market service perspective does not mean that it makes sense from a design perspective.

 

[Yethal]

After reading all this I can't wait for the Yggdrassil chapter

 

[Matias]

The amps use IEC input connector, so only the included cheap cable is country specific. Still easier to stock those than separate amps.

As for the design, AFAIK the transformers have 2 primary windings: one for 125V another for 220V. Secondary winding is the same, as well as all the rest of the amp. So the back switch only connects the IEC to one winding or the other of the transformer (which this switch is also a current bottleneck if the designer chooses any model). So still 1 transformer and same weight.

 

[Alex Martin]

Other Ragnarok Facts:
 
The Bill of Materials is over five pages long.  The BOM is the list of parts that go in to a unit.  For comparison, Magni is around 3/4 of a page.  Bifrost is two pages.  In an earlier post I mentioned that Bifrost has 19 suppliers.  Ragnarok has about 35.
 
At 38 pounds shipping weight, Ragnarok is by far our heaviest product.  The next closest is Mjolnir with a 14-pound shipping weight.
 
The main transformer is bolted to the bottom chassis and weighs 10 pounds.  Jason handed me the first prototype Ragnarok transformer in March of 2012.  At the time, our heaviest product was Lyr (7-pound shipping weight).   I had no idea how I was going to ship the item this 10-pound weight was going to be attached to.  A second smaller transformer sits on a PCB and the PCB is attached to the chassis with standoffs.
 
The Ragnarok ships in two double wall boxes (outer and inner shipping box) and sits inside of two soft, crush resistant foam trays.  The inner box is big enough to fit four completely packed Valhallas.  I am a big fan of packaging overkill.  I know that your package is going to be thrown, dropped, possibly even kicked. It can fall out of a plane, truck, or off of a conveyer belt.  We design our packaging with that in mind.  We get maybe 6 - 10 complaints about items damaged in shipping each year.  I don't put fragile stickers on boxes.  I also don't put "kick me" signs on my son's back when I send him to school.  The two are roughly equivalent. 

 

[Jason Stoddard]

I can imagine how much money was invested in R&D hours and burned components.....

 
Probably about 2000 hours of my own time, plus an equivalent amount for Dave and Mike, and probably getting to about that amount on production ramp-up. It was a much bigger project than anything we've ever done--and Yggdrasil, arguably, is bigger.
 
To be clear--we are mass-producing these, but our 2-3 week "qualifier" is so we can take into account initial demand and have the time for burn-in and test. I'm hoping eventually to have them on shelves, but let's see how the first run goes...

 

[Jason Stoddard]

   
Just to clarify, you aren't regretting this project, are you?  While it is clear you would have managed the project differently (notably, the publicity) if you could do it over, would you still have embarked on the Ragnarok journey if you knew what you know now? This chapter has a dark ending considering that it tells the story of and coincides with the official announcement of your statement amplifier.
 
Cheers
 

 
I would still have done it, but I wouldn't have announced...that's where the pain comes in. To talk about something that isn't fully worked out yet, and to make assumptions about what it will be when you have a half-done product...not bright.
 
We have a ton of new projects running at this time that nobody knows about...some even crazier than Ragnarok and Yggdrasil (but not more expensive.) And, now that Ragnarok is in the pipeline and Yggy is well along, they're going to start moving a lot faster now.
 
As Mike says, "more will be revealed..."

 

[jacal01]

Will there be an accompanying Yggdrasil chapter?  Written by Mike?  Yourself?  Coauthored?
 
That's got to be an adventure in itself, as well, between the DSP programming of the bitperfect interpolation filter algorithm, and the cost effective sourcing for perfectly matched discrete conversion ladder resistors.  Maybe the perfect soulmate for the Ragnarok on several levels in its own right.  Some technical insights on that front would be greatly appreciated here, too, I'm sure.

 

[Jason Stoddard]

  Very impressive. A few questions though, if you feel like answering them:
 
1) How the hell do you do this for only $1699? This appears to be more complicated (but better) than a lot of the NAD amplifiers that are $4,000, plus the usual Schiit that it looks way better and is better built. Plus you guys said you're making these to order (makes sense, although apparently a ton of people want one), so you're not getting the bulk manufacturing savings.
 
2) Whenever you add in more software, as you said, you open up the product to more potential issues. Do you guys have any plans of fixing shipped Ragnaroks (not the beta ones) if you guys find a bug months or years down the road? 
 
3) When a prototype goes bad does smoke literally come out of it? I'm assuming you have fire extinguishers to put out the fires?
 
I'm glad to see that Schiit considers endgame $1699 and not $1000000000000000 like some other brands. That way serious audiophiles who have space for this can actually get their hands on it.

 
Okay, a couple more answers. As noted, Ragnaroks are mass-produced, so we do have some benefit there. However, I think the difference in pricing comes down to two things:
 
1. We're priced for direct sale. That gives us about a 2X advantage in cost relative to what is sold through dealers. Ragnarok, through a standard dealer channel, would be at least $3K, probably $3500.
 
2. Once prices reach a certain point in audio (or, well, anything), they become decoupled from reality. This is what I call the "You Can't Sell it That Cheap, They Won't Take You Seriously," assertion. We've been told tons of times that our stuff should sell for lots more. This is entirely BS as far as we're concerned. Do you really think a $13,500 HDMI cable costs $3375 to make, and is worth handing a dealer $6750 in profit (using the old gross margin minimums from the dealer days?) No. Of course not. At that point, it's about shock and bragging rights. Same as the $4750 flannel jacket in Robb Report--it doesn't cost $1200 to make. It's about looking like a 70-year-old guy who shops at Sears for a whole lot more money. Or something. I never figured that one out.

 

[daerron]

I trust you guys have thorough plans on testing the firmware for this amplifier as it seems pretty critical to the operation of the product? What impact does the firmware have on the amp if it fails or misbehaves?
Firmware development just opens an entire new can of worms in terms of development from lifecycle to config management, unit and acceptance testing etc. It was a brave decision to head in this direction! Guess we all have to start somewhere, mistakes are an opportunity to learn and gain plenty of experience! Kudos to Dave for the way he handled it. I've had my fair share of muck-ups over the years and most of my firmware is up flying in the air.. 

 

 

[jacal01]

   
It's about looking like a 70-year-old guy who shops at Sears for a whole lot more money.

 
Gentrified grunge look, or the landed lumberjack.

 

[JohnnyCanuck]

The amps use IEC input connector, so only the included cheap cable is country specific. Still easier to stock those than separate amps.

As for the design, AFAIK the transformers have 2 primary windings: one for 125V another for 220V. Secondary winding is the same, as well as all the rest of the amp. So the back switch only connects the IEC to one winding or the other of the transformer (which this switch is also a current bottleneck if the designer chooses any model). So still 1 transformer and same weight.

 
It's even easier than that.  The transformer has two primary windings; the switch connects them in series for 230V or in parallel for 115V.

 

[Jones Bob]

Can we expect the tube hybrid Ragnarok to ship soon and will it do Dolby? -joking

Working as an R&D Engineer at a large computer maker, your trials seem quite livable in comparison. You build locally and do not have the nightmare of interfacing with manufacturing in China. To paraphrase Bismarck for the laymen: NPI is like sausage, one should not see it being made.

Great job Jason. On the Rag and the writeup. It's ALIVE!