Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up
Jun 28, 2017 at 11:51 AM Post #21,376 of 151,046
Totally rewiring everthing and changing the wallsocket made it acceptable again.
But I now see how one contracts audio nervosa. You spend x-amount hoping it will be good.
Than something like this happens and you mentally start preparing yourself to spend more to save your previous splurge from being pointless.
Before you now it you own a 4000 euro powerstrip and 3000 euro powercables.

(Emotiva is a cool brand btw...numerous times I have been wanting to be able to buy their stuff)
 
Jun 28, 2017 at 11:55 AM Post #21,377 of 151,046
@HumanFly

On a side note, how have you like the pairing of the Saga with Jot?
Excellent! Makes for a much more versatile set-up(with a remote).
Soundwise there is not much of a difference (depending on wether you use Saga passively or not ofcourse, using the tube makes a little difference, very little) so when they dont hum it sounds great!
 
Jun 28, 2017 at 11:59 AM Post #21,378 of 151,046
Waiting eagerly to the debut of the Vidar. I am not a technician and have a few questions with regards to the Vidar not being 4 ohm rated. I currently use a Parasound A23 running 2 Monitor Audio Pl200 speakers. I always wanted to try a Mono Block configuration without breaking the bank. The Vidar for a non tech seem to fit the bill. I know that the PL200's have been measured (not by me) and will drop down 3.6 ohms at 150Hz.

Will I be safe using 2 Vidars in a mono block configuration or wait in hopes that the Schiit gods come out with a 4 ohm rated amplifier in the Future?
 
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Jun 28, 2017 at 12:11 PM Post #21,379 of 151,046
Excellent! Makes for a much more versatile set-up(with a remote).
Soundwise there is not much of a difference (depending on wether you use Saga passively or not ofcourse, using the tube makes a little difference, very little) so when they dont hum it sounds great!

So for you, running the Saga didn't change the sound much for the Jot, just provided a level of convenience with the remote?

I've been very happy with the Jot, but have continued looking at either a Lyr2 or Val2 for variety. I've heard very good things of the Val2 pairing with the HD650 and will probably end up going that route.

... a remote would be nice though.
 
Jun 28, 2017 at 12:27 PM Post #21,380 of 151,046
Waiting eagerly to the debut of the Vidar. I am not a technician and have a few questions with regards to the Vidar not being 4 ohm rated. I currently use a Parasound A23 running 2 Monitor Audio Pl200 speakers. I always wanted to try a Mono Block configuration without breaking the bank. The Vidar for a non tech seem to fit the bill. I know that the PL200's have been measured (not by me) and will drop down 3.6 ohms at 150Hz.

Will I be safe using 2 Vidars in a mono block configuration or wait in hopes that the Schiit gods come out with a 4 ohm rated amplifier in the Future?

So I can't speak for Jason or Schiit, but a low of 3.6 ohm doesn't sound bad to me. I know from other forums that the concern with a 4ohm nominal speaker is that it may dip to 2ohm or below. I would bet that is the concern not something slightly below 4ohm.
 
Jun 28, 2017 at 12:32 PM Post #21,381 of 151,046
So for you, running the Saga didn't change the sound much for the Jot, just provided a level of convenience with the remote?

I've been very happy with the Jot, but have continued looking at either a Lyr2 or Val2 for variety. I've heard very good things of the Val2 pairing with the HD650 and will probably end up going that route.

... a remote would be nice though.
Not just the remote. You get more inputs too. You can also output to 2 amps (jot and vidar) or powered speakers and a sub. On top of that you also get a remote.
But if you are looking for tubesound it might not be the way to go.
 
Jun 28, 2017 at 12:34 PM Post #21,382 of 151,046
So I can't speak for Jason or Schiit, but a low of 3.6 ohm doesn't sound bad to me. I know from other forums that the concern with a 4ohm nominal speaker is that it may dip to 2ohm or below. I would bet that is the concern not something slightly below 4ohm.
Thanks Brubacca,

I hope your assumption is correct. I never drive my speakers to crazy levels but I certainly don't want to be scared If I ever did.
 
Jun 28, 2017 at 12:47 PM Post #21,384 of 151,046
Waiting eagerly to the debut of the Vidar. I am not a technician and have a few questions with regards to the Vidar not being 4 ohm rated. I currently use a Parasound A23 running 2 Monitor Audio Pl200 speakers. I always wanted to try a Mono Block configuration without breaking the bank. The Vidar for a non tech seem to fit the bill. I know that the PL200's have been measured (not by me) and will drop down 3.6 ohms at 150Hz.

Will I be safe using 2 Vidars in a mono block configuration or wait in hopes that the Schiit gods come out with a 4 ohm rated amplifier in the Future?

Since I haven't had time to write a chapter in a while, this will serve as a good kickoff to what could be called the "being too honest doesn't get you far in marketing" theory.

Here's the bottom line: sometimes we're too straightforward.

Examples:

1. We don't cherry-pick measurements, and, indeed, our published measurements are usually much worse than our actual measurements, just to be safe. So meter-readers write us off, because our THD and noise (or crosstalk, or whatever) are 0.001% worse than some other published measurements.

2. We discuss the use of circuitry such as summers in balanced amps, and call out when we're using them. As a result, some people automatically think single-ended output on some of our products is "compromised." The reality is that everyone uses summing circuitry in the same application--they just don't mention it. The same people that have a problem with our summers don't have a problem with them in other applications--even if the entire "balanced" components sums to single-ended at the input, then re-converts to balanced output at the end. Which, in our opinion, is not a balanced component.

3. And finally, we tell you, honestly, when you'll hit the protection system in our amps. Here's the reality: no Class AB amp anywhere near Vidar's price will be rated for 4 ohm continuous RMS operation when run as a monoblock. None. Zero. Nada. Remember, we're talking 400W into 8 ohms mono here. Sure, we could be like everyone else, and say, "Yeah, it'll work," because, you know what? For most people it'll work fine. If you're not going to be running headbanging volume levels, it'll be fine. But if you turn it wayyyyyyyyy up, you will hit our protection system at some point. The amp will go "click," the lights will flash, and you'll have to turn it on and off again to reset it. This is, by definition, "safe." Whether or not you'll run into the protection enough to be irritating is something we can't predict.. So we won't rate continuous power into 4 ohms in monoblock mode.

However, there is a simple solution to this problem (if you have 4 ohm speakers): Just get ONE Vidar, which is fine with 4 ohm loads. One Vidar is MASSIVELY underrated in terms of power. It is STUPID how much power one Vidar has. For everyone considering two Vidars, here's a hint: start with one.

(Oh, and by the way, whenever a manufacturer makes a recommendation that actually reduces their sales potential, it's probably honest.)

"Oh, but then I can't use balanced input, boo hoo!" you cry. Well, you know what? Balanced ain't all that. Balanced does not make or break a system. Balanced is one part of the equation. And all of our DACs that have both balanced and single-ended outputs do SE right--as in, they sum the SE from balanced, thus preserving most of the benefits of balanced (using a single phase without summing is not as good, period.) And all of our products have single-ended outputs. So there's no problem hooking up any of our gear to Vidar.

And, another recommendation: Saga and one Vidar are an amazing combo. That's what I'll be using.
 
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Jun 28, 2017 at 1:01 PM Post #21,385 of 151,046
Since I haven't had time to write a chapter in a while, this will serve as a good kickoff to what could be called the "being too honest doesn't get you far in marketing" theory.

Here's the bottom line: sometimes we're too straightforward.

Examples:

1. We don't cherry-pick measurements, and, indeed, our published measurements are usually much worse than our actual measurements, just to be safe. So meter-readers write us off, because our THD and noise (or crosstalk, or whatever) are 0.001% worse than some other published measurements.

2. We discuss the use of circuitry such as summers in balanced amps, and call out when we're using them. As a result, some people automatically think single-ended output on some of our products is "compromised." The reality is that everyone uses summing circuitry in the same application--they just don't mention it. The same people that have a problem with our summers don't have a problem with them in other applications--even if the entire "balanced" components sums to single-ended at the input, then re-converts to balanced output at the end. Which, in our opinion, is not a balanced component.

3. And finally, we tell you, honestly, when you'll hit the protection system in our amps. Here's the reality: no Class AB amp anywhere near Vidar's price will be rated for 4 ohm continuous RMS operation when run as a monoblock. None. Zero. Nada. Remember, we're talking 400W into 8 ohms mono here. Sure, we could be like everyone else, and say, "Yeah, it'll work," because, you know what? For most people it'll work fine. If you're not going to be running headbanging volume levels, it'll be fine. But if you turn it wayyyyyyyyy up, you will hit our protection system at some point. The amp will go "click," the lights will flash, and you'll have to turn it on and off again to reset it. This is, by definition, "safe." Whether or not you'll run into the protection enough to be irritating is something we can't predict.. So we won't rate continuous power into 4 ohms in monoblock mode.

However, there is a simple solution to this problem (if you have 4 ohm speakers): Just get ONE Vidar, which is fine with 4 ohm loads. One Vidar is MASSIVELY underrated in terms of power. It is STUPID how much power one Vidar has. For everyone considering two Vidars, here's a hint: start with one.

(Oh, and by the way, whenever a manufacturer makes a recommendation that actually reduces their sales potential, it's probably honest.)

"Oh, but then I can't use balanced input, boo hoo!" you cry. Well, you know what? Balanced ain't all that. Balanced does not make or break a system. Balanced is one part of the equation. And all of our DACs that have both balanced and single-ended outputs do SE right--as in, they sum the SE from balanced, thus preserving most of the benefits of balanced (using a single phase without summing is not as good, period.) And all of our products have single-ended outputs. So there's no problem hooking up any of our gear to Vidar.

And, another recommendation: Saga and one Vidar are an amazing combo. That's what I'll be using.



Thanks for the info Jason about Balanced and Single ended. i have a Freya, so i guess i`ll start with one Vidar to drive my Vandersteen 2ce Signatures, should be plenty of juice form me.
 
Jun 28, 2017 at 1:16 PM Post #21,387 of 151,046
Since I haven't had time to write a chapter in a while, this will serve as a good kickoff to what could be called the "being too honest doesn't get you far in marketing" theory.

Here's the bottom line: sometimes we're too straightforward.

Examples:

1. We don't cherry-pick measurements, and, indeed, our published measurements are usually much worse than our actual measurements, just to be safe. So meter-readers write us off, because our THD and noise (or crosstalk, or whatever) are 0.001% worse than some other published measurements.

2. We discuss the use of circuitry such as summers in balanced amps, and call out when we're using them. As a result, some people automatically think single-ended output on some of our products is "compromised." The reality is that everyone uses summing circuitry in the same application--they just don't mention it. The same people that have a problem with our summers don't have a problem with them in other applications--even if the entire "balanced" components sums to single-ended at the input, then re-converts to balanced output at the end. Which, in our opinion, is not a balanced component.

3. And finally, we tell you, honestly, when you'll hit the protection system in our amps. Here's the reality: no Class AB amp anywhere near Vidar's price will be rated for 4 ohm continuous RMS operation when run as a monoblock. None. Zero. Nada. Remember, we're talking 400W into 8 ohms mono here. Sure, we could be like everyone else, and say, "Yeah, it'll work," because, you know what? For most people it'll work fine. If you're not going to be running headbanging volume levels, it'll be fine. But if you turn it wayyyyyyyyy up, you will hit our protection system at some point. The amp will go "click," the lights will flash, and you'll have to turn it on and off again to reset it. This is, by definition, "safe." Whether or not you'll run into the protection enough to be irritating is something we can't predict.. So we won't rate continuous power into 4 ohms in monoblock mode.

However, there is a simple solution to this problem (if you have 4 ohm speakers): Just get ONE Vidar, which is fine with 4 ohm loads. One Vidar is MASSIVELY underrated in terms of power. It is STUPID how much power one Vidar has. For everyone considering two Vidars, here's a hint: start with one.

(Oh, and by the way, whenever a manufacturer makes a recommendation that actually reduces their sales potential, it's probably honest.)

"Oh, but then I can't use balanced input, boo hoo!" you cry. Well, you know what? Balanced ain't all that. Balanced does not make or break a system. Balanced is one part of the equation. And all of our DACs that have both balanced and single-ended outputs do SE right--as in, they sum the SE from balanced, thus preserving most of the benefits of balanced (using a single phase without summing is not as good, period.) And all of our products have single-ended outputs. So there's no problem hooking up any of our gear to Vidar.

And, another recommendation: Saga and one Vidar are an amazing combo. That's what I'll be using.

This should be reposted every month at least.:darthsmile: ....we will need a smiley listening to speakers emoticon!
 
Jun 28, 2017 at 1:56 PM Post #21,388 of 151,046
Whether or not you'll run into the protection enough to be irritating is something we can't predict.. So we won't rate continuous power into 4 ohms in monoblock mode.

...or before blowing the voice coil out of the speaker...
 
Jun 28, 2017 at 2:03 PM Post #21,389 of 151,046
(Oh, and by the way, whenever a manufacturer makes a recommendation that actually reduces their sales potential, it's probably honest.)

THIS is one reason why I am a customer, and even a fan-boi. If the wild and wooly audio rabble out there cannot recognize how rare this is, then it's their loss. Thank you.
 
Jun 28, 2017 at 2:07 PM Post #21,390 of 151,046
I have a question unrelated to Vidar (for a change) that maybe the creators can comment on as well: Why are all the amps so god damned loud? I received a pair of 300ohm headphones today and even the tiny 1st gen Fulla can blow 'em up to the moon when cranked to the max. Sure, it doesn't drive them as well as, say, a Vali, but that's even more preposterous - the drivers sound like they'd blow up half-way the Vali's dial!
Is it like a sports car thing? "My volume is really fast but your headphones' the speed limit."
 

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