Schiit Freya Impressions and Tube Rolling Thread
Sep 29, 2018 at 4:31 AM Post #1,651 of 3,233
HI, I've just acquired a new Freya and have gotten new TungSol 6SN7 GTB matched tubes. Good sound but there is a very audible hum which is more obvious than the stock tubes. It is also louder when I placed my hand on the Freya. The hum goes away in JFET mode.
My source is Bluesound Node 2 into Yggdrasil- Freya- Teddy Pardo MB100 power amp monoblocks and into Harbeth SHL5+ speakers. Balanced interconnect into the Freya but SE into the Teddy Pardo.
Does anyone know how to resolve this? Is it just a matter of faulty tubes or a ground loop problem? I'm new to this tube rolling hobby and any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
 
Sep 29, 2018 at 5:36 AM Post #1,652 of 3,233
^ I had similar experience with Freya and ended up returning it.

Whole amp was (in tube mode) super sensitive to, well, anything. Even touching cables caused loud noise through speakers like tapped faulty tube. In JFET-mode it still had audible noise floor.
Shame that, visually and as an amp it was really cool but these short comings with sensitivity and noise floor made me return it. Same tube sets used with another tube pre amp caused zero noise or problems...

I'm afraid that Freya production has some issues with quality control (or other problems related to design, i don't know about that).
But if there ever will be improved Freya i'm definitely interested at least trying it out.

cheers :smile_phones:
 
Sep 29, 2018 at 5:47 AM Post #1,653 of 3,233
I'd be interested to know what the actual percentage is that has this issue. If mine had noise issues I would have said something in this forum, for sure. But my Freya is dead silent and has ZERO microphonics. I looove the reality it injects. My only issue is customer service. It seems that if you ask a question they think is stupid they ignore you. I keep buying the Schiit though because I really like it. And Freya...I would have sex with you if I could.
 
Sep 29, 2018 at 9:11 AM Post #1,655 of 3,233
I'd be interested to know what the actual percentage is that has this issue. If mine had noise issues I would have said something in this forum, for sure. But my Freya is dead silent and has ZERO microphonics. I looove the reality it injects. My only issue is customer service. It seems that if you ask a question they think is stupid they ignore you. I keep buying the Schiit though because I really like it. And Freya...I would have sex with you if I could.
My Freya, bought mid 2017, is dead quiet in all modes. The original 6SN7 tubes were somewhat microphonic,but the Tung Sol tubes do not exhibit that problem. Freya is sensitive to ground loops, and cables/grounding schemes need to be well understood to diagnose the problems, i. e., do the signal cables have the shield terminated on both ends? What other equipment is connected? What if I disconnect xxxx, does it change? Noise and hum in audio gear is almost always installation specific.
 
Sep 29, 2018 at 10:39 AM Post #1,656 of 3,233
@TheSnafu and others.

I'm located in Finland, and bought a 230v Freya (and a Vidar) from the Dutch importer, schiit-europe.com. It took quite a while for first Freya to come into stock in early summer, and I waited for the Vidar for a couple of months more. Other related gear is listed in my profile, but the speakers are 91dB Tannoy XT 8F's. (I was wondering about getting two Vidars.., but read on.)

Basically I bought the unit for my first foray into tubes, and to get into tube rolling, but I've been trying to tackle a noise problem. I've got a ~50hz (transformer/tube?) hum which doesn't change with the volume control/mute relay on.
The passive mode and JFET's are completely silent, although with your ear directly by the speakers' driver, you can hear the noise floor rise with JFET even so slightly. With tubes, the noise floor rises quite audibly, but the hiss isn't heard from the listening position - the hum is.

The thing is, all the tubes I've acquired (dozens of pairs from various vendors), including the stock tubes has this issue, and all of them with varying degrees of the before mentioned hum. Some (matched) pairs are almost undetectable (but they are producing the hum - when you switch the modes you do notice, especially in a corner of the room where the frequency is naturally amplified), and some are quite vehemently producing this hum.
This hum is continuous 50hz hum, (I did a tone generator test). It isn't buzz, it isn't random tube artifacts appearing and disappearing, it isn't crackle, and it's not hiss. The hum doesn't change with touching Freya's chassis, holding it tighter to the surface it's resting on (tested various surfaces and places), nor does it change if I lift/tap the chassis or tubes (microphonic tubes convey clanks, thuds and thumps etc. to the speakers), and no weight above Freya's chassis help with the hum either. I've tested various electric sockets, and various ground combinations. I've even tested various socket savers. This has led to a conclusion that tube dampeners won't help with my issue.

I lent an isolation transformer for this weekend, only connecting the Freya into Vidar (with RCA to work in stereo mode) and obviously the speakers with cables, if I could tackle the problem but to no avail. I tested the isolation transformer in between the units and before them, with different ground combinations. No help. (Perhaps I could bring down the hum a slight notch when grounding the extension cord after the isolation transformer as the grid after the transformer isn't grounded.)

I can produce a ground loop with Freya (touching the chassis raises the same hum), as I can lift the ground easily. (Take note @Koobre , if that's your only problem, you're in luck I guess?)

The only thing still to test is which I can think of is a Jensen isolator (@cskippy mentioned Radial Engineerings DI-box) in between Freya and Vidar? Any other suggestions?

I haven't reached Sonority or Schiit yet; and it's a miracle I've found time to even do some minor testing in the past couple of days. On a sick leave due a flu, but otherwise the year has had to offer a death in the family, water damage in our normal flat (we've been living in another flat during the renovation since Midsummer, just got the OK this week to move back), 1- and 3-year olds running around in the house and SO starting to study again. I feel a bit overwhelmed. The 14 -day return periods have long since gone, but I guess warranty is still an option.

TL;DR is this even tube hum, does it exist, and if so, should I hear it with my speakers?
Could either Freyas or Vidars transformers be the source of problems, where either the isolator, or even a line attenuator might help?
 
Sep 29, 2018 at 11:00 AM Post #1,657 of 3,233
@TheSnafu and others.

I'm located in Finland, and bought a 230v Freya (and a Vidar) from the Dutch importer, schiit-europe.com. It took quite a while for first Freya to come into stock in early summer, and I waited for the Vidar for a couple of months more. Other related gear is listed in my profile, but the speakers are 91dB Tannoy XT 8F's. (I was wondering about getting two Vidars.., but read on.)

Basically I bought the unit for my first foray into tubes, and to get into tube rolling, but I've been trying to tackle a noise problem. I've got a ~50hz (transformer/tube?) hum which doesn't change with the volume control/mute relay on.
The passive mode and JFET's are completely silent, although with your ear directly by the speakers' driver, you can hear the noise floor rise with JFET even so slightly. With tubes, the noise floor rises quite audibly, but the hiss isn't heard from the listening position - the hum is.

The thing is, all the tubes I've acquired (dozens of pairs from various vendors), including the stock tubes has this issue, and all of them with varying degrees of the before mentioned hum. Some (matched) pairs are almost undetectable (but they are producing the hum - when you switch the modes you do notice, especially in a corner of the room where the frequency is naturally amplified), and some are quite vehemently producing this hum.
This hum is continuous 50hz hum, (I did a tone generator test). It isn't buzz, it isn't random tube artifacts appearing and disappearing, it isn't crackle, and it's not hiss. The hum doesn't change with touching Freya's chassis, holding it tighter to the surface it's resting on (tested various surfaces and places), nor does it change if I lift/tap the chassis or tubes (microphonic tubes convey clanks, thuds and thumps etc. to the speakers), and no weight above Freya's chassis help with the hum either. I've tested various electric sockets, and various ground combinations. I've even tested various socket savers. This has led to a conclusion that tube dampeners won't help with my issue.

I lent an isolation transformer for this weekend, only connecting the Freya into Vidar (with RCA to work in stereo mode) and obviously the speakers with cables, if I could tackle the problem but to no avail. I tested the isolation transformer in between the units and before them, with different ground combinations. No help. (Perhaps I could bring down the hum a slight notch when grounding the extension cord after the isolation transformer as the grid after the transformer isn't grounded.)

I can produce a ground loop with Freya (touching the chassis raises the same hum), as I can lift the ground easily. (Take note @Koobre , if that's your only problem, you're in luck I guess?)

The only thing still to test is which I can think of is a Jensen isolator (@cskippy mentioned Radial Engineerings DI-box) in between Freya and Vidar? Any other suggestions?

I haven't reached Sonority or Schiit yet; and it's a miracle I've found time to even do some minor testing in the past couple of days. On a sick leave due a flu, but otherwise the year has had to offer a death in the family, water damage in our normal flat (we've been living in another flat during the renovation since Midsummer, just got the OK this week to move back), 1- and 3-year olds running around in the house and SO starting to study again. I feel a bit overwhelmed. The 14 -day return periods have long since gone, but I guess warranty is still an option.

TL;DR is this even tube hum, does it exist, and if so, should I hear it with my speakers?
Could either Freyas or Vidars transformers be the source of problems, where either the isolator, or even a line attenuator might help?
Try a simple experiment---ground the top plate of Freya to mains ground, then try it to signal ground. Outside of that experiment, it sounds like Freya has a problem with heater-cathode leakage that affects all of the tubes that you try.
 
Sep 29, 2018 at 1:20 PM Post #1,659 of 3,233
Try a simple experiment---ground the top plate of Freya to mains ground, then try it to signal ground. Outside of that experiment, it sounds like Freya has a problem with heater-cathode leakage that affects all of the tubes that you try.

Tried both grounding options, no help. "Mains" hum still audible with the tubes, and different tubes give varied results. I guess a friend comes over with an oscilloscope, hopefully next weekend, so we can produce screenshots to Sonority/Schiit? Or should I try that isolator/attenuator?
 
Sep 29, 2018 at 1:27 PM Post #1,660 of 3,233
I'm also in the "Freya with zero issues" camp as since acquiring mine late last year it's been humless, zero tube hiss, and the original stock Russian tubes sounded fine, although I've been rolling tubes for fun since I bought the thing (have gained a pile of 6SN7GTBs, NOS Sylvania "chrome domes" and RCAs are my current faves…I have Amperex USAs and new version Tung Sols also, and my SE Dennnis Had amp uses one so there's that). My rig has a couple of bespoke noise fighting power supplies, a Humbuster III for the amps, a power conditioner, etc., but a noisy Freya would have bugged me big time and likely would have been returned, after my exhausting any remedies anyway. It's maybe the fact that a forum will likely report more issues than non issues, but it's interesting and it clearly sucks for people who wind up with noisy preamps. I've become a Schiit fan (no pun intended) with other things including an amazing Loki, and a Magni 3 headphone amp and they're also well done. The only flaw in the Freya are the brighter than I prefer LEDs that I somewhat cured by taking the thing apart to paint the LEDs. Not recommended by the way as it's a task to get the LEDs back in their places when re-assembling the thing. Otherwise this preamp sounds and performs flawlessly.
 
Oct 7, 2018 at 6:02 AM Post #1,662 of 3,233
I haven't tried my Freya with my AN15 speakers, but with lower efficiency non full range drivers I had no hum. The Freya is on loan as Scott Winders talked me into a Don Sachs DS2 preamp, and there is no looking back. When it's returned I'll try it out, though mine is the US 120VAC version, and this somehow looks as if it may be unique to the European version. Wish I could be more help.
 
Oct 13, 2018 at 12:34 PM Post #1,663 of 3,233
I started to get some whirring and occasional static in one of my Psvane TII last night -- had the Psvanes in gain stage and Sophia 6SN7 in follower stage. I thought about switching out for Lisst but decided to sleep on it. Today I went digging through some spare tubes and ended up putting Tung Sol BG square plate 6F8Gs in to gain stage and Tung Sol 6SU7 GTY in follower. Wow, guitar stuff sounds great now -- spent some time listening to Zeppelin, Pearl Jam, and Nirvana today. Physical Graffiti especially sounds fantastic with this combo.

Before I put the 6F8Gs in, I tried using TS BGRP 6C8Gs. They sounded great as well but I had a tube die after about 2 hours. Started as a hum in one channel, then some static, then put the power amp in to protection on that channel. I powered off Freya and then turned it back on and the tube didn't heat up. Power cycled again and it came back but wasn't amplifying and gave static on each click of the volume relays. Could be coincidence as these weren't new when I got them and I used them for a few years in a WA6. YMMV.

For reference, the system is currently Gungir MB > Freya > 2x Vidar > Ascend Acoustics RAAL towers.
 
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Oct 13, 2018 at 1:22 PM Post #1,664 of 3,233
Very interesting to me as we have similar systems. I am surprised that you aren't experiencing excessive gain. It has been over a year, but my memory is when I tried 6C8Gs in the gain position they created a low level hum. For me, they work great in the output buffer (follower) position, so there they stay. Most of mine are Ken-Rad. I will have to try them in the gain position again.
 
Oct 17, 2018 at 1:58 PM Post #1,665 of 3,233
I think I need service for my Freya...

1st thing, after going from 83 to 93 dB efficient speakers, the background noise when in tube mode is really loud. Even when volume turned off, there is a lot of noise coming from the speakers. So much so, I have gone to not using tube mode... Same issue with multiple different tubes. That noise has always been there, it just wasn't as noticeable with 83 dB efficient spks, and I figured it was normal. It doesn't vary with the volume level.

2nd I tried using XLR cables, and there was a clicking coming from the speakers as I adjusted the volume (not just the clicking that comes from the Freya), and the bass driver was moving out, like someone was pushing on it from behind, as I adjusted the volume. I think that means DC current somehow making it through. That scared me a lot, I didn't want to damage my speakers or amp. I went back to RCA and no problems.

I thought I would check here to see if any of these issues are "normal" before contacting Schiit for service.

Thanks
 
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