Scared... just ordered Sennheiser 600s... should I have gotten 650s?

[Covenant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max F /img/forum/go_quote.gif When you receive your 600s and feel that they just need a little more bass, then you'll have your answer.

The answer being... better amplification?

 

[rhythmdevils]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Covenant /img/forum/go_quote.gif No. HD600 tends to sound better and clearer than the HD650 out of less than stellar amps. With top notch gear (particularly balanced gear) the nod goes to HD650 - out of anything less, the HD600.

yes! Unless you're going to spend top dollar, I think the HD600 wins. It sounds pretty dam good out of my iphone

 

[pp312]

This thread is something of a mess in terms of advising the OP. Phrases like the 650's "suck" certainly don't help, but the real issue is some saying the 650 is much harder to drive and others saying the 600 is harder when it seems clear from the figures that the latter is the case. Can no one clear this up definitively?

 

[BryanP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pp312 /img/forum/go_quote.gif This thread is something of a mess in terms of advising the OP. Phrases like the 650's "suck" certainly don't help, but the real issue is some saying the 650 is much harder to drive and others saying the 600 is harder when it seems clear from the figures that the latter is the case. Can no one clear this up definitively?

If money is not an issue (which would be the case in an ideal world lol), then the solution is just to make sure the amp used to power the phones is within the range of the impedances (of course we have to factor in certain amp characteristics to optimize the efficiency of the power use, but thats beyond the scope of this). We have to remember that the headphone's sensitivity is also important because it plays a factor in how "easily" the phones can be driven.

Point is, headphones will sound different depending on what is linked to them. The only control here is that the mechanics of the headphone /itself/ will never change, only the equipment connected to it will change the sound.

Therefore, by design, just by looking at the figures, if powered properly by an amp that colors the sound as minimal as possible, the HD650 "should" have more impactful bass because of the area under curve between the HD600 and 650 in the bass range. However, because the HD650 is more /sensitive/ than the HD600, it may be more easily driven by a source compared to the HD600 in certain frequency ranges (NOT necessarily in general).

If you want a /true/ definitive answer of what will sound better, the only real way is to put them side-by-side with the same equipment (or better yet, whatever application you're going to use them for), and listen to them. Listen to them with a properly powered setup to be able to distinguish... try them out.

There's more than just numbers and figures because sound is different for everyone.

However, one could read the hundreds of posts about the HD650 (from users who were also HD600 owners/users) sounding more powerful with the bass compared to the HD600. The graphs can give a partial explanation to that because of the design. Clamping pressure due to a person's head (which could increase the effect of bass) and all those things on the other hand aren't useful metrics if you're making a product cause they vary too much.

 

[Silenced]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanP /img/forum/go_quote.gif This also hints to the issue that some people complain about having "weaker" bass in the HD600s compared to the HD650. If both properly powered, the bass on the HD600 should be refined and tight compared to being "flabby" as some report. The HD600s appears to have regions in the frequency response chart (compared to the HD650) that have similar slopes (the bass and mids), but with the HD650 boosting this range a bit. If anyone even looks at area under the curve with the HD600 as a reference, the bass of the HD650 appears to follow similar slopes as you move towards 30-40Hz. But the dB difference is roughly /5/ dB. This is why the HD650 probably sounds "stronger in bass," (and don't disregard the fact it's more sensitive as well). Once you reach the 30Hz-500Hz range, we can see that the HD650 is actually roughly 2.5-3 dB above the HD600 with somewhat similar slopes. Ideally, natural sound requires around 3 dB above flat in the bass region (~30Hz - 500Hz) to give simulation of "bass impact." This is where the HD650s obviously excel because their bass is already above flat in the bass region, where the HD600s hasn't even reached zero yet. Without coloring the signal, the HD650s should reproduce a more "natural" bass sound with impact compared to the HD600s with everything else equal. This is probably because when the HD600s peak in bass (roughly 100Hz), this peak is met when the HD650 is roughly around 30Hz... That is why the HD600s are more like reference/neutral headphones when compared side-by-side. Even though both are "nominally 300 ohm" headphones with somewhat similar sensitivities, the HD600 is a bit harder to drive based off the metrics as well. but the bass for sure won't tighten up unless that area was powered.The slope of the impedance curve is /steep/ in driving the bass in the HD600 compared to the HD650. Because this slope is steep the rate of change of impedance is high; this is the area that requires the most attention when it comes to properly powering the entire headphone. Everything else might sound good, This might account for the reason why people agree that as you amp the phones more, they get better. In reality, they may not been properly powering them to begin with. To the OP, it boils down to your musical taste. Both will shine if you properly power them, but they're somewhat different headphones (and can be radically different if you use tubes to color the signal).

This is somewhat misleading at least for most modern recordings. Recording people know about "realistic bass" and they EQ it in (aka. the music itself already has the +3db in the bass), so with HD650 it actually will sound bloated (unless you are a bass head).

 

[gurubhai]

The quoted sensitivity differences are actually due to use of different units, dB/mW vs DB/V. Otherwise both HD600 & HD650 have same sensitivity at 1k Hz.
They do differ in their impedance curves which suggests that HD650 would require a higher voltage swing & thus more difficult to drive.


Quote:

Originally Posted by wali /img/forum/go_quote.gif HD600 was designed for accuracy and neutrality, while HD650 was inspired by HD600 but made to sound good... There is the difference and whether one likes HD600 or HD650 actually says a ot more about the taste of the listener than the quality of the headphones. ... And they're different despite people using them as slash products. HD600 is more demanding and harder to drive "properly" than HD650. (Check the sensitivity, also headroom spec charts.) HD650: # Response Bandwidth 10 - 39500 Hz # Sensitivity 103 dB # Impedance 300 Ohm HD600 # Response Bandwidth 12 - 39000 Hz # Sensitivity 97 dB # Impedance 300 Ohm

 

[GuruTech]

Do not worry, your choice was perfect because i have also ordered 600s

and i did that after quite a search so its never gnna waste

 

[tjumper78]

Dear OP,
once you receive your hd600 and listen to some music, you wont have anything to worry about.
hd600 is amazing! i keep selling it and purchase different headphones (including hd650) just to see if theyre better but i always go back to hd600.

 

[wali]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gurubhai /img/forum/go_quote.gif The quoted sensitivity differences are actually due to use of different units, dB/mW vs DB/V. Otherwise both HD600 & HD650 have same sensitivity at 1k Hz. They do differ in their impedance curves which suggests that HD650 would require a higher voltage swing & thus more difficult to drive.

I stand corrected on sensitivity numbers, but HD600 requires a lot more voltage since its midrange impedance is almost 80ohms higher than HD650:

 

[gurubhai]

^^ that's correct. I made a typo.
I have wondered about the same thing here http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/you...d-when-443180/

Never got a satisfactory answer though.

 

[wali]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gurubhai /img/forum/go_quote.gif ^^ that's correct. I made a typo. I have wondered about the same thing here http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/you...d-when-443180/ Never got a satisfactory answer though.

I think, with your knowledge of how those numbers work the answer should be clear to you.

HD600/HD580 (same driver) are harder to drive than HD650... A lot of information in such a huge website like head-fi is colored by opinions which get hold, so its better to find the facts for yourself.

For example with your stx, you should use 300-600ohms setting for your HD600/HD580 (connected straight to stx headphone out).

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wali /img/forum/go_quote.gif I stand corrected on sensitivity numbers, but HD600 requires a lot more voltage since its midrange impedance is almost 80 ohms higher than HD650:

That's not the midrange, but the mid-bass (100 Hz). And «a lot more voltage» is exactly 17% more. Moreover the difference could very well be due to sample variance (I've seen different HD-650 impedance curves with higher bass-resonance peaks). No, the HD 600 isn't harder to drive. Both headphones are an easy load. But their sonic characteristics demand different and specific electronics and cables for ideal synergy.

I own and like both, but prefer the HD 650 for its higher resolution and refinement. The HD 600 may be a bit more neutral.
.

 

[Max F]

Well the OP has a OTL tube amp so either phones (both high impedance) will be a sinch to drive.

In fact, I keep my LD MKIII at the lowest gain setting with my HD650.

It basically comes down to how much bass you want. KISS.

 

[IPodPJ]

I definitely prefer the HD600 to the 650.

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ /img/forum/go_quote.gif I own and like both, but prefer the HD 650 for its higher resolution and refinement. The HD 600 may be a bit more neutral. .

x2