[ClieOS]

No forgotten, just not notice it enough to feel annoyed.

 

[zyzyx]

Generally not a huge difference to my ears with RB on Fuze (v2), and the fact that it can't be used with a LOD is unfortunate, but I love the EQ and the ability to run crossfeed.

 

[Coop]

I agree with the people who say the difference between OF and RB is quite small. Until you start playing with the EQ. The EQ on the OF is horrible, any change to the user EQ profile will result in huge loss of SQ. When running RB, the EQ is actually very usable.
On the other hand, all the settings in RB make it a little more difficult to get the hang of it. The OF UI is so user friendly even a monkey could use it...
 
If you like tweaking your sound to prefection, go for Rockbox. If you prefer ease of use, stick with the original firmware.

 

[zyzyx]

Quote:

Generally not a huge difference to my ears with RB on Fuze (v2), and the fact that it can't be used with a LOD is unfortunate, but I love the EQ and the ability to run crossfeed.

Update: there's now a Rockbox build for the Fuze that allows line out! It made things a little wonky with my database the first time out, but I was able to update properly after a couple of minutes. 
 

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Update: there's now a Rockbox build for the Fuze that allows line out! It made things a little wonky with my database the first time out, but I was able to update properly after a couple of minutes. 
 

What's the build? I just installed the latest 3.9 build and as far as I can tell it's still a no go for the line out.

 

[zyzyx]

Quote:

What's the build? I just installed the latest 3.9 build and as far as I can tell it's still a no go for the line out.

It's a custom build by Progweed over at ABI.  I've only used it a couple of days now, but it's working great.
 
http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?p=565273#post565273
 
 

 

[elnero]

Quote:

It's a custom build by Progweed over at ABI.  I've only used it a couple of days now, but it's working great.
 
http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?p=565273#post565273
 
 

Thanks for that!
 
Next stupid question, how does this install? Do you just overwrite the existing .rockbox file on the fuze or is there a way to do it through the installer?

 

[zyzyx]

Quote:

Thanks for that!
 
Next stupid question, how does this install? Do you just overwrite the existing .rockbox file on the fuze or is there a way to do it through the installer?

I just do it at the file level myself, adding in what I want. Kind of sloppy tbh, as I don't even bother completely overwriting things, which is typically a safer approach.
 
The installer should work, in theory. Haven't used it in eons, though, so I can't give you advice on it.
 
Ed: This build sets the default output state as line out. To toggle between LO and headphone, -> Settings -> General Settings -> System -> Line Out (No / Yes ).
Kind of pita having to go so deep in the menu to make the change.

 

[thegr8brian]

I have built my own custom version for Fuze v2 which includes the same lineout as well as a high quality tweak for the headphone out which lowers THD a few db.  It also has USB semi working, at least in windows 7 it works but it does not appear to be working in OS X yet.  I can post this somewhere if people are interested.  
 
The lineout setting is buried in the menus, but you can set it as a quickscreen option which makes it very easy to access.  
 
On a side note I did some RMAA measurements comparing the lineout and the headphone out, and the headphone out performed marginally better in every way.  I then looked up the data sheet for the audio processor which the fuze v2 and clip+ use and sure enough, they spec the headphone out to have a higher SNR.  The lineout also suffers from greater low frequency roll off and phase shift due to the coupling caps required in the dock.  The headphone output of the fuze v2 and clip+ has no capacitors in the signal path but uses another method to remove dc from the output.  So after all of this I am just sticking with headphone out.    

 

[BoneJazz]

thegr8brian, I'm interested in Trying your custom build. Thanks

 

[ILikeHeadphones]

thegr8brain,
 
On the Sansa forums when people were trying to build LOD cables for the fuze, Sansafix (Sansa representative) states the Line out was slightly better...
 
Second to last post on this page:
http://sansa.lithium.com/t5/Fuze/DIY-Line-Out-Cable-Works/td-p/72477/highlight/true/page/4
 
and second post on this page:
http://sansa.lithium.com/t5/Fuze/DIY-Line-Out-Cable-Works/td-p/72477/highlight/true/page/8
 
He seemed to be referencing the data sheet. I don't really understand his explanation. Your explanation why the sound is better on the headphone output makes a lot of sense though. I'll probably just use the headphone out from now. I'll just use the Griffin dock for easy charging.
 
Anyways, I'd love to try out your Rockbox build for Fuze v2. I mostly want to try out the USB fix posted here:
http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11664
Are you using the last patch mentioned in the thread - called the "PIO-mode driver." The last comment says it works well with Windows 7. I really hope all these patches for Fuze v2 like USB Connection, Line-out capability, database fix?, improved sound output, improved fonts, etc can just be rolled into the official version one day.
 
Looking forward to trying your build for the Fuze v2.
Thanks.

 

[thegr8brian]

Quote:

thegr8brain,
 
On the Sansa forums when people were trying to build LOD cables for the fuze, Sansafix (Sansa representative) states the Line out was slightly better...
 
Second to last post on this page:
http://sansa.lithium.com/t5/Fuze/DIY-Line-Out-Cable-Works/td-p/72477/highlight/true/page/4
 
and second post on this page:
http://sansa.lithium.com/t5/Fuze/DIY-Line-Out-Cable-Works/td-p/72477/highlight/true/page/8
 
He seemed to be referencing the data sheet. I don't really understand his explanation. Your explanation why the sound is better on the headphone output makes a lot of sense though. I'll probably just use the headphone out from now. I'll just use the Griffin dock for easy charging.
 
Anyways, I'd love to try out your Rockbox build for Fuze v2. I mostly want to try out the USB fix posted here:
http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11664
Are you using the last patch mentioned in the thread - called the "PIO-mode driver." The last comment says it works well with Windows 7. I really hope all these patches for Fuze v2 like USB Connection, Line-out capability, database fix?, improved sound output, improved fonts, etc can just be rolled into the official version one day.
 
Looking forward to trying your build for the Fuze v2.
Thanks.

One would assume the lineout to be better if properly implemented.  I believe since this audio processor (AS3525) was intended mainly for mobile applications and headphone use they worried more about optimizing the headphone output rather than the line out, which most people will likely never use.  Take a look at the THD and SNR numbers in the datasheet here.  Also I would be very surprised if the Sansa rep on the forums was an actual EE who worked on the design.  Using rockbox, if you just set the volume to 0db you are effectively getting the same lineout level from the headphone output.  
 
Yes, I am using the PIO-mode patch in my build.  I should mention that the first time I attempted to connect the fuze froze, so I simply rebooted it and every time after (20+ times) usb worked great in Windows 7 x64.  
 
I'll post a link to download my build when I get home later today.  
 
 

 

[thegr8brian]

Here is a link to download my custom build
 
Enjoy!

 

[ILikeHeadphones]

I tried the build! It sure is nice to have working USB on the Fuze v2! With Win7 64bit it seemed to work right away.
 
A few experiments:
If I plug in with USB and pull the Fuze out without "ejecting", the fuze locks up and needs to be shut down. But that's my fault.
 
The lineout works well. There is one small problem with it for me though. I actually go lineout to a Focusrite Saffire DSP 24 and for some reason the line-out audio is too hot for the input into the amp and I get clipping on Hi Gain or it is really quiet on low gain. It seems about 6db too hot. Using line out on Rockbox for Fuze v1, the volume can be reduced when the volume is set below about -35. The line out on Rockbox Fuze v2 is either on or off so I can't reduce the volume enough to stop the clipping.
 
Just curious if you had any other patches in the build like the Fuze v2 database fix patch or the font improvement patch.
 
Thanks for making the build! I've been wanting to use Rockbox USB for such a long time - no more database refreshing when using Sansa OF with USB!
 

 

[thegr8brian]

Quote:

I tried the build! It sure is nice to have working USB on the Fuze v2! With Win7 64bit it seemed to work right away.
 
A few experiments:
If I plug in with USB and pull the Fuze out without "ejecting", the fuze locks up and needs to be shut down. But that's my fault.
 
The lineout works well. There is one small problem with it for me though. I actually go lineout to a Focusrite Saffire DSP 24 and for some reason the line-out audio is too hot for the input into the amp and I get clipping on Hi Gain or it is really quiet on low gain. It seems about 6db too hot. Using line out on Rockbox for Fuze v1, the volume can be reduced when the volume is set below about -35. The line out on Rockbox Fuze v2 is either on or off so I can't reduce the volume enough to stop the clipping.
 
Just curious if you had any other patches in the build like the Fuze v2 database fix patch or the font improvement patch.
 
Thanks for making the build! I've been wanting to use Rockbox USB for such a long time - no more database refreshing when using Sansa OF with USB!
 

The fuze won't clip until the volume is set above 0db so this sounds like an odd problem with the other device you are using.  I wasn't having any issues with the database, but I have not seen the patch so I may look into it, also never heard of a font improvement patch, not sure what they would improve.  If you could link me to the patches I would appreciate it. 
 
If I find anything else useful or if there are any useful updates I'll probably post my latest build here again.