[Ferbose]

Fewtch, have you heard K1000 in perosn?

I believe you have misunderstood the presentation of K1000.

When you listen to a speaker 8 ft away, it sounds like the instrument is 8 ft away. However, on a K1000, it sounds like it is less than a feet away, not much further than other headphones. K1000 listening experience is much closer to other headphones than speakers. K1000 actually kind of sounds like listening to binaural recordings on regular headphones.

Do you know that 99.999999% of CDs and LPs are mixed to sound natural on speakers, instead of headphones? To maximize heapdhone listening pleasure, albums should be recorded in a binaural manner (imcompatible with speakers). K1000 tries to solve this issue by offering natural crossfeed and partially using the listener's own outer-ear HRTF.

It is dangerous for anyone to read about K1000 and think one knows what is about. You can't use your past headphone/speaker listening experience to infer about its sound. It is unlike anything else out there. If you have driven a car and ridden a bicycle, can you say you know what it feels like to ride a motorcycle, especially a fine one like a Ducati? Sure, not everyone likes motorcycle, just like not everyone likes K1000. But how do you know before you test drive one?

 

[applebook]

Fewtch, I enjoy reading your posts and generally agree with what you have to say

Most headphones don't sound equivalent to or less than speakers in their same price range, though. $300 (street price) cans like the 650, 701, etc. absolutely destroy $600 speakers in terms of detail, resolution, and intimacy. I don't believe that any two speakers that cost a total of twice that of the K1000 sound anywhere near as good. In fact, from my experience, aside from the obvious benefits of speakers like soundstaging and PRaT, I would say that the HD650 and its equals far succeed speakers that don't cost well over a grand.

Akwok is right. The K1000 is every bit a headphone with some of the benefits of speakers and ALL of the upside of open headphones --pricing, headphone amplification, far less noise than speakers, transportability, etc. Whether or not you will like it is whole other issue, but I highly recommend that you don't dismiss it as a wannabe, impractical headphone

At a recent meet, I was quite shocked to hear the little noise that it leaked. Before that encounter, I never truly considered the K1000 as a possible alternative to other open cans.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferbose When you listen to a speaker 8 ft away, it sounds like the instrument is 8 ft away. However, on a K1000, it sounds like it is less than a feet away, not much further than other headphones. K1000 listening experience is much closer to other headphones than speakers. K1000 actually kind of sounds like listening to binaural recordings on regular headphones.

There you go... they have a built in major advantage that *no* other headphones have. So SQ comparisons to other cans are inherently unfair IMO.

If no other cans are able to even compete because they press against the head, how is it fair to compare them to the K1000? It's like saying that a baseball player who played a game is a better player than one who sat on the sidelines during the game, which would be a ridiculous statement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by applebook Akwok is right. The K1000 is every bit a headphone with some of the benefits of speakers

I rest my case. They are different than *any* other headphones, because no others have some of the benefits of speakers. So you just made my case for me that comparing them to other cans that have normal headphone design limitations is unfair.

Take a pair of K701s that have somehow been altered to work like the K1000, then maybe we'd have some basis for comparison.

 

[some1x]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch There you go... they have a built in major advantage that *no* other headphones have. So SQ comparisons to other cans are inherently unfair IMO. I rest my case. They are different than *any* other headphones, because no others have some of the benefits of speakers. So you just made my case for me that comparing them to other cans that have normal headphone design limitations is unfair.

We can't compare K1000s to headphones because they have an advantage over conventional headphones? Great!
Lets stop comparing them to normal headphones because its unfair.

 

[applebook]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch I rest my case. They are different than *any* other headphones, because no others have some of the benefits of speakers. So you just made my case for me that comparing them to other cans that have normal headphone design limitations is unfair.

So a piece of gear that has all of the benefits of headphones and also some of the benefits of speakers, yet costs far less than equivalent sounding speakers, doesn't have the downsides of speakers, and costs only about $500-800 is not worthy of consideration? Well, you have your priorities, and I have mine, but I'll choose a headphone that provides natural crossfeed like speakers, the detail and resolution of high-end cans, while maintaining the luxuries of a headphone (transportability, no need to worry about room acoustics, doesn't infuriate neighbors when turned up due to noise) for a bit more than prosumer cans like the HD650.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by applebook So a piece of gear that has all of the benefits of headphones and also some of the benefits of speakers, yet costs far less than equivalent sounding speakers, doesn't have the downsides of speakers, and costs only about $500-800 is not worthy of consideration?

DID I SAY THAT... dammit, I hate when people put words in my mouth. Consider yourself on mental "ignore" status here, and if you do it again I'll just drop you into my ignore list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by some1x Lets stop comparing them to normal headphones because its unfair.

Yes, why don't you stop comparing speaker/headphone hybrids to headphones. Compare apples to apples.

 

[some1x]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch Yes, why don't you stop comparing speaker/headphone hybrids to headphones, it would reflect better on you.

1. Didn't you rest your case already?

2. Oh no! I made a total of two short posts (ever) about how I thought of K1000s in relation to other headphones I've owned. Will you ever forgive me?

 

[applebook]

You're becoming extremely unreasonable, and it's plain to see why. All of the reasons that you listed for not considering the K1000 have already been exploded as based on ignorance: its needing a speaker amp, leaking far more noise than conventional cans, etc.

HAHA...darth has succeeded in his attempt to cause controversy. He outsmarted me this time, but it'll be the last.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by applebook You're becoming extremely unreasonable

Might as well continue the personal statements/attacks, now that I've proved my point eh? Anything to deflect attention from the actual point being made.

Quote:

and it's plain to see why. All of the reasons that you listed for not considering the K1000 have already been exploded as based on ignorance: its needing a speaker amp, leaking far more noise than conventional cans, etc.

And you seem to have completely missed my point -- that saying the K1000 sounds better than K701 doesn't make much more sense than saying your speakers sound better than K701. Of course it sounds better than the K701, it's just as much a pair of speakers as a pair of headphones.

The fact that I wouldn't want a pair of K1000s is beside the point, but is still true. I'd much rather have a pair of K701s that could be driven easily by a moderately priced, easy to find and general purpose headphone amp, is substantially cheaper, is in active production, and is a pair of true headphones rather than a hybrid.

 

[Ferbose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch There you go... they have a built in major advantage that *no* other headphones have. So SQ comparisons to other cans are inherently unfair IMO. If no other cans are able to even compete because they press against the head, how is it fair to compare them to the K1000? It's like saying that a baseball player who played a game is a better player than one who sat on the sidelines during the game, which would be a ridiculous statement.

From your answer, should I assume that you (Fewtch) has head K1000 yourself?

I am most interested in knowing whether or not you have heard it, since you seem to be quite vocal about K1000.

 

[applebook]

Well, this whole discussion has been about the relative weaknesses of the K1000, not its strengths because it's its SUPPOSED limitations that are holding some, myself included at one point, from trying it.

I wasn't trying to be offensive or pushy, only stating a few facts and throwing out a couple of subjective opinions.

Whether or not the K701 sounds as good as the K1000 was not what I was trying to get at because I've yet to hear the former.

If anyone reading these responses is against testing the K1000 based only on alleged amp needs, potentially loud noise leakage relative to other open cans, and other issues besides the $500-800 price tag, then I can safely say that you needn't worry about these perceived problems that don't exist.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferbose From your answer, should I assume that you (Fewtch) has head K1000 yourself? I am most interested in knowing whether or not you have heard it, since you seem to be quite vocal about K1000.

I have zero interest in hearing the K1000. I'm only vocal about comparisons to headphones, since K1000 are not headphones but speaker/headphone hybrids. I feel it's unfair to other headphones to compare apples to oranges. That has been my whole point all along, which clearly has been missed by just about everyone (what else is new around head-fi

).

BTW, I've only been vocal about K1000 on this thread, and only on a small portion of it. You won't hear me mentioning them anywhere else, because I have no interest in them at all.

 

[applebook]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch K701s that could be driven easily by a moderately priced, easy to find and general purpose headphone amp, is substantially cheaper, is in active production, and is a pair of true headphones rather than a hybrid.

First of all, I never once attacked you. Claiming that you were becoming unreasonable was perfectly reasonable because you stated that you'd mentally ignored me just because you misinterpreted what I had written one post ago.

Again, the much-maligned DAC1's $150 amp provides decent enough power to the K1000 that I personally, IMO, consider the K1000 to sound far superior to the HD650 hooked up to a Dynahi.

We all know that the K1000 is a hybrid, but what most audiophiles care about is SQ, and if the K1000 provides better SQ than its cheaper competitors without having the weaknesses that some claim that it has, then I don't see the rationale for rejecting it other than price and prejudice.

<end of preaching>

 

[donunus]

haaaaaaahay. The K1000s are still headphones not speakers. try spacing the k1k drivers 8ft apart and be 8ft away from them. see if you can get bass that way. I would be impressed if they could perform nearly as well as any decent bookshelf speaker.... dillweed

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by applebook We all know that the K1000 is a hybrid, but what most audiophiles care about is SQ, and if the K1000 provides better SQ than its cheaper competitors without having the weaknesses that some claim that it has, then I don't see the rationale for rejecting it other than price and prejudice.

How are they when you want to lie down in bed and relax... can you throw them on and take them off in 1/4 seconds like you can with most headphones... can you use them in a library or on the bus like you can with IEMs or closed cans... can you plug them into a CMOY or PCDP if your normal amp is being serviced or is elsewhere...

They are just as convenient and easy to use as a pair of Senn HD650s? Why don't I believe this? All it takes is a single picture of them on someone's head to know they require some adjustment, and could not reasonably be used at work in a cubicle or in a library (where HD650/K701 definitely could, as long as the volume is kept low).

I am far from convinced, but if your goal is to convince others then be my guest... I won't be getting a pair, but if others become interested based on what you say then more power to them/you.

We're way off topic BTW, but I guess it's better than talking about pretzels... at least it's about headphones.