[gsferrari]

Is anyone using the SA5000 with the M3 amplifier? The recent Rockhopper M3 amp thread piqued my curiosity because I spent a few minutes with the combo at the Maryland meet and liked it immensely.

I think this could be one of those cases of instant synergy...

or I could be completely off the mark here.


In any case - If you are using this combination -OR- if you can try this combo by borrowing from a friend - please post your observations.

THANKS!

 

[Pete7]

Don't know if this helps, but I'm using CD-3000's with an M3 that has a OPA627/637 combo. 627 in ground, 637 in L/R. I was using RS-1's with this amp, but I think the CD-3000's have even better synergy with it. I eq a little, but the M3 really seems to tame the brightness. I've only had the CD-3000's since yesterday, but to my ears it sounds pretty incredible.

 

[devwild]

I'm almost surprised to hear you ask this as I know you've posted on threads where I've bragged about the combination

They really do synergize well, I have yet to hear an amp that sounds nearly as well on all marks (speed, balance, power, and my favorite tweak, the exceptionally clean variable bass boost for some recordings) with the SA5000. Admittedly I haven't heard nearly as much high end gear as you have (including the dynahi), but I can at least say with some confidence that the M^3 seems to be the cheapest amp that can do the SA5000s proper justice.

Others seem to agree, as per comments from two of the local meets in the last year. Some people who don't like the SA5000 on other gear praise them on the M^3, largely because it fixes the sonic balance problems of the cans very well (takes the edge off the treble without damaging the extension, strengthens both quality and quantity of the bass). Which opamps work best depends on the source, which I have gone into in other posts, but the OPA627 is an obvious starting point.

Edit: FWIW, the current evolution of my setup is Onix XCD-88 OPA627 modded > M^3 w/ AD843 > SA5000. I find this notably more refined that the stock XCD-88 > M^3 w/ OPA627, which was my setup for the prior 6 months.

 

[Jigglybootch]

Out of curiosity, what kind of sound signature does the AD843 offer with the SA5000?

 

[devwild]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jigglybootch Out of curiosity, what kind of sound signature does the AD843 offer with the SA5000?

With the stock onix it was too bright and had a slightly recessed midrange, with the modded onix I'm getting very well balanced sound to my ears. The AD843 seems to have similar qualities of speed and stability to the OPA627, but has a different sound signature. Since I don't have two M^3s to compare the differences closely, I'm not sure I can quantify them all that well, so I'm not going to try to mislead anyone. Also I think the differences go beyond "warm" and "cold", to the effect that was made in specific frequencies the SA5000 is very sensitive to. Sufficed to say, they are so much cheaper than the OPA627s, and so close in technical quality, that they are at least worth a try.

Also probably worthy of note is which M^3 I have, it is also a Rockhopper, the first generation "Home" with internal steps psu, subtle variable bass boost, 2 switched inputs, and loop out. I painted the inside of the power button black, but otherwise it's as he built it. He definitely does a nice job with these amps:

 

[Jazper]

prolly a bit of a delayed response, but I've been using the M3/sa5k combo for a while now. I have found that the best opamps (after extensive testing) that suit the sa5ks are the ad8065s, closely followed by the AD843s. The AD843s are very "tubey/jazz" orientated, and the 8065s just have the right amount of everything.

The opa637/627 I find a bit too laid back and overly bassy
The ad8610s are too bright/cold
The THS4631 aren't bad, except for the compressed midrange
The THS4601 are dark and chocolatey - not the best for uber fast phones

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Jazper, I agree with you about the 8065, I have found it to be the most balanced sounding opamp around, albeit in other applications. It has all the detail of the other elite opamps, without the colorations.

Guru, I did a good bit of listening to the M3, as compared to the Dynahi, at the meet last weekend. I found the M3 performs very well for the price, though it does have weaknesses compared to the Dynahi. It doesn't have quite the ease of dynamics that the Dynahi does (which is more noticeable the less efficient the headphones used) and has a bit of a compressed soundstage by comparison. Granted, I think that is quite good for the cost of the M3, and/or the ease of build as far as DIYers are concerned. I didn't find the M3 any more synergistic with the SA5000 than the dynahi, which is to say that it didn't do anything to sound mis-synergistic. Just take the SA5K/Dynahi sound, which I know you know, and make the dynamics slightly muffled, and the soundstage a bit compressed both laterally and vertically, and you basically have the SA5K/M3. The M3 I heard is NeilPeart's, which had a STEPS, and the 8610 opamps (though it didn't sound bright or harsh).

 

[devwild]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer The M3 I heard is NeilPeart's, which had a STEPS, and the 8610 opamps (though it didn't sound bright or harsh).

Not to stomp on your words, but I think this should be listed before the impressions. When I first demoed the M^3 for a week before purchasing one, I felt the 8610 was by far the worst opamp for the SA5000 of those I had on hand (8065, 8610, 627, and I think one other I forget...). In all honesty it's been too long to say why aside from it being lean on bass, but I can say I don't feel that's a great demo of what the M^3 can do withe the 5000s.

Not to put down the dynahi... I recently heard a dynalo and thought it was pretty darn close to the M^3 (though bright with the 5K for my taste). I don't doubt the dynahi is pretty sweet.

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by devwild Not to stomp on your words, but I think this should be listed before the impressions. When I first demoed the M^3 for a week before purchasing one, I felt the 8610 was by far the worst opamp for the SA5000 of those I had on hand (8065, 8610, 843, 627, and I think one other I forget...). In all honesty it's been too long to say why aside from it being lean on bass, but I can say I don't feel that's a great demo of what the M^3 can do withe the 5000s. Not to put down the dynahi... I recently heard a dynalo and thought it was pretty darn close to the M^3 (though bright with the 5K for my taste). I don't doubt the dynahi is pretty sweet.

Hmm, interesting, the only problem I've noticed with the 8610 in other applications is a slight brightness, but I never found it too be quite inferior to its opamp brethren. Makes sense to me that the dynalo and M3 are on about the same footing, since the M3 had similar flaws as compared to the dynahi as does the Lavry's amp, which sounds pretty similar to a non-maxed-out dynalo to me.

 

[Jazper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by devwild Not to stomp on your words, but I think this should be listed before the impressions. When I first demoed the M^3 for a week before purchasing one, I felt the 8610 was by far the worst opamp for the SA5000 of those I had on hand (8065, 8610, 843, 627, and I think one other I forget...). In all honesty it's been too long to say why aside from it being lean on bass, but I can say I don't feel that's a great demo of what the M^3 can do withe the 5000s. .

What he said

Bright, cold, slow (in comparison to just about any other opamp I've used), uninviting.. Compressed - definately..forward - definately...

I would definately not try to judge the m3/s5k synergy with 8610s..

 

[NeilPeart]

You guys are forgetting that the op-amps in the M-cubed won't have the same impact as op-amps in fully op-amp-based design (such as a PPA or PIMETA). The op-amps in the M-cubed simply handle voltage gains while the MOSFETs handle the current gain. If anything you'd hear more differences by adjusting the MOSFETs bias. Also, I selected the AD8610 for this M-cubed because I use it at work with my K271S (it’s cheaper than the OPAs and the K271S synergize better with it than any other op-amp in my experiences with the PPA); when I'm ready for an M-cubed for home use (HD650/DT880/K701) I'll consider a fully-balanced M-cubed with a stepped attenuator and OPA627/637s (even though the difference would be minimal compared to the AD8610s). I thought the M-cubed and Dynahi sounded reasonably similar (excellent) but I didn't spend the time Peter did with the amplifiers – I could hear the soundstage differences he was describing. Also, I prefer the M-cube’s smaller footprint, cooler operation and cheaper (and simpler) build requirements. That said, IMO the M-cubed performs its best with Austrian/German designed cans (AKGs, Beyers and Senns) as opposed to the Japanese Sony and Audio-Technica. I really like the Dynahi with the Qualia and SA5000 (despite my distaste for either of these cans), the L3000 and W11R.

 

[devwild]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilPeart You guys are forgetting that the op-amps in the M-cubed won't have the same impact ...

My opinions at least are based entirely on observation. I spent a lot of time with the demo M^3, and aside from simply sounding better with the SA5000s, one of the reasons I started with the OPA627 was that it was the only op amp I had on hand that could provide adequate bass accuracy and detail (not quantity) - by a large margin. (I just remembered I didn't actually have the 843 for that demo, comment above revised)

Even if the impact isn't as great as with a PPA or the like, there is a very definite impact.

 

[grawk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by devwild

I love the knobs. Do you know where he sourced em?

 

[devwild]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk I love the knobs. Do you know where he sourced em?

I love them too, the large one in particular is nicer than most I've seen in that size. Sorry though, I don't know where he got them.

 

[amb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk I love the knobs. Do you know where he sourced em?

Looks like ones from THL Audio (look under "Tuning knobs", the ones are SZ2724 and SZ3825R).