sa5000 frequency response graph?

[xnor]

@MrGreen: there is nothing odd.

a) I wouldn't compare IEM graphs to full-size headphones.
b) Volume's perfectly matched at 1 kHz for all headphones.
d) Learning Center: About Headphone Measurements
c) Quote:

The HD201 is listed as 'terrifically well balanced'...

"for a headphone that costs ~28 bucks" (you seem to have missed that)

and btw, there are also measurements by other guys that show a similar roll-off for the sony

@donthuang: Yeah there are a lot of questions.

And the fact that people confuse bass with sub-bass doesn't help.

Just listen to the track Bass Mekanik - NightBass at low volume.
If you can hear "dumm dumm dumm" and feel "doo do" everything's fine.

If you don't feel the sub-bass your headphone probably have sudden bass roll-off, if you hear "tuck tuck tuck .." only there's no real bass at all.

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

a) I wouldn't compare IEM graphs to full-size headphones.

This. Actually I wouldnt really compare IEM graphs to other IEM either, atleast with Headroom graph. IEM graphs look very odd, they make no sense actually.

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

If you don't feel the sub-bass your headphone probably have sudden bass roll-off, if you hear "tuck tuck tuck .." only there's no real bass at all.

I decided to download that single track to check my SA5K out. With low volume I do sense the subbass when the bass line suddenly drops to very low frequencies on the core beat. It obviously is much more silent than higher notes, but it is easily audible. If there would be more stuff going on (like usually in music, more busy stuff than this simple beat), it would be mostly lost and inaudible I believe.

But the part that starts around 2:25, SA5K starts to struggle. It is there and detectable though, but it would definetly be lost if the music would be any busier. But to tell the truth, every open headphone would fail here.


*edit* And my reference headphone when it comesto bass extension, Ultrasone Proline 750, passes this song with flying colors. Every note to deepest tones is easily audible and almost in perfect balance with other frequencies. Though thinking about sensitivity of human ear when it comes to bass frequencies, this indicates that PL750 has bit boosted subbass.

*edit* HF2. A headphone which I consider much bassier than SA5K, has about same level of subbass as SA5K. It is detectable in both core bass beat and the part starting in 2:25. So HF2 only has stronger midbass, but subbass is roughly the same. Perhaps slightly stronger, but more likely it is just different in tone.

 

[MrGreen]

ah good to know ty for the info everyone

Since you advise me not to pay attention to IEM charts...
can anyone comment on the bass balance difference between ER4S and the SA5k?
I have the ER4S as a loan currently and love it to death (part of the reason why I want to get the SA5K).

I've got a nice speaker setup that i use for lucious presentation of music, and I want something that will let me hear everything when I close my eyes. So long as I can still hear the bass of course (as bass is an important part of music). The bass balance on the ER4S is great, i think... but I hate the feeling of canalphones

can any of the owners here comment on how it performs with classical and rock from your perspective? (particularly if the music is still enjoyable/gets your feet tapping for rock)

 

[xnor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif I decided to download that single track to check my SA5K out. With low volume I do sense the subbass when the bass line suddenly drops to very low frequencies on the core beat. It obviously is much more silent than higher notes, but it is easily audible. If there would be more stuff going on (like usually in music, more busy stuff than this simple beat), it would be mostly lost and inaudible I believe. But the part that starts around 2:25, SA5K starts to struggle. It is there and detectable though, but it would definetly be lost if the music would be any busier. But to tell the truth, every open headphone would fail here.

Hehe, listen to it with a PX 100 ($ 40) and you'll feel the lower beat stroking your eardrums (it's feels about equally loud as the core beat) but you're right about the 2:25 part, that's just too darn low for most headphones.

But depending on your music preferences this might not matter much, still it's an impudence that manufacturers provide specs like "Frequency response: 6 Hz - ..." (sa-5000) ... the graph on HeadRoom shows that it's already down to -30 dB at 10 Hz


Quote:

*edit* HF2. A headphone which I consider much bassier than SA5K, has about same level of subbass as SA5K. It is detectable in both core bass beat and the part starting in 2:25. So HF2 only has stronger midbass, but subbass is roughly the same. Perhaps slightly stronger, but more likely it is just different in tone.

It shows a similar roll-off on the graphs so this is plausible.

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Hehe, listen to it with a PX 100 ($ 40) and you'll feel the lower beat stroking your eardrums (it's feels about equally loud as the core beat) but you're right about the 2:25 part, that's just too darn low for most headphones.

*Starts frantically searching for PX100 which is hidden somewhere in the closet*

*edit* Damnit, I've lost them. I gave them once to my pops, but got them back some time later cuz he no longer found use for them. I guess I have given them to someone else. Time to call my sister tomorrow. I HAVE to check this out.

Umm, where can you see HF2s graph?

 

[xnor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif This. Actually I wouldnt really compare IEM graphs to other IEM either, atleast with Headroom graph. IEM graphs look very odd, they make no sense actually.

Well I'm not so sure about that. Haven't seen many other IEM graphs, but at least this one is pretty comparable:

(ER-4s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif Umm, where can you see HF2s graph?

Just pick a random Grado graph at HeadRoom.

Sorry.

 

[donthuang]

Q010 v.s. HD800, another "raw" measure form Japanese site "fuchinove"

SA5000 headroom "raw" measure

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donthuang /img/forum/go_quote.gif SA5000 headroom "raw" measure

Heh, that looks like what I am hearing when I wear SA5K wrong, headband directly towards up. Pads do not seal around your ears and drivers get angled wrong. Treble takes a complete dominance in the sound. Wearing them with the cloth part resting on the "bald spot", the sound changes quite dramatically in fact. On my head atleast.

 

[donthuang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif Heh, that looks like what I am hearing when I wear SA5K wrong, headband directly towards up. Pads do not seal around your ears and drivers get angled wrong. Treble takes a complete dominance in the sound. Wearing them with the cloth part resting on the "bald spot", the sound changes quite dramatically in fact. On my head atleast.

Very Possibly.

Pads do not seal around ears = lack bass extended.
Drivers get angled wrong = A Mess of treble response.

 

[MrGreen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif Heh, that looks like what I am hearing when I wear SA5K wrong, headband directly towards up. Pads do not seal around your ears and drivers get angled wrong. Treble takes a complete dominance in the sound. Wearing them with the cloth part resting on the "bald spot", the sound changes quite dramatically in fact. On my head atleast.

Wow thanks for the tip.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnor /img/forum/go_quote.gif @MrGreen: there is nothing odd. "for a headphone that costs ~28 bucks" (you seem to have missed that)

This is the first time that I've heard that price has anything to do with how "balanced" something can be. It is my general experience that how expensive something is will generally (generally) give you a representation of the quality of the things produced.
I think a lot of cheap headphones are very bass heavy because people who shop for headphones at that price are after huge bass, not because balancing a headphone to an "ok" proportion is super difficult.

 

[MrGreen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by miloxo /img/forum/go_quote.gif .

Here's another (with better horizontal resolution).
Similar sort of shape, seems a fair bit more balanced
source is Matsuba Ryu.
His graphs for various phones look similar to my experiences.


Quote:

Originally Posted by xnor /img/forum/go_quote.gif b) Volume's perfectly matched at 1 kHz for all headphones.

Why dont they do it so the overall sound output is the same dB in A weighting?
Doesnt make much sense to me

 

[xnor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGreen /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is the first time that I've heard that price has anything to do with how "balanced" something can be. It is my general experience that how expensive something is will generally (generally) give you a representation of the quality of the things produced.

Well I didn't write that. You quoted a fraction of a sentence found on HeadRoom and were puzzled... I just added the rest of the sentence, which you shouldn't have removed from the "quote" in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGreen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here's another (with better horizontal resolution). Similar sort of shape, seems a fair bit more balanced source is Matsuba Ryu. His graphs for various phones look similar to my experiences.

I'm sorry but it's far more imbalanced than the HeadRoom graph. Just take a look at the y-axis ..
If you ignore the suddenly rolled-off ends, on HeadRoom the difference between lowest and highest point is about 15dB, in Matsubas chart it's over 30dB!
Bass however looks a bit better than on HeadRoom, but still not very favorable compared to other headphones.


Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGreen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why dont they do it so the overall sound output is the same dB in A weighting? Doesnt make much sense to me

Because that's how headphone sensitivity is measured, I guess.

 

[MrGreen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnor /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm sorry but it's far more imbalanced than the HeadRoom graph. Just take a look at the y-axis .. If you ignore the suddenly rolled-off ends, on HeadRoom the difference between lowest and highest point is about 15dB, in Matsubas chart it's over 30dB!

Er, I'm pretty sure the headroom one is about 24 and the matsuba one is between 20 and 25.
Theyre pretty even except the peaks are in different places. Regardless, matsubas graphs generally represent what I hear for most phones I've heard more than headroom.

 

[xnor]

Afaik this guy uses an in ear microphone, so you cannot compare it with the raw HR measurements but with the corrected (normal) ones.
So it's ~15 dB on HR and ~30 on that guys graph. (-30 dB @ 2.8 kHz to -60 dB @ 7 kHz)
That's because HR smooths out all dips/peaks I guess.

But does it actually matter (to you)? You seem to really like this headphone so go ahead and buy it (too thick wallet?

), if it makes you happy.