[luvdunhill]

sigh ... I don't know what (I can | to) say... better not to say anything at all I suppose.

 

[smeggy]

Wait, $20,000 and no normal bias socket to run my beloved SR-X!
Pah! Not likely

 

[Capunk]

It's $14.000 usd not $20K
$6000 can make a huge different tho...

 

[PFKMan23]

$14000 is still a large amount of money and more expensive than the other mainstream competitors (KGBHSE, ES-1)

 

[Capunk]

I thought KGBHSE is on luxurious area, and a bit far from mainstream.

 

[leonid05]

This is really a very strange discussion.

Some here seem to have severe ego issues.

Yup, let`s judge the book by it`s cover, without reading it.
Yup, let`s critizise "reliability" and ignore the experiences of those who uses these amps day by day.

And yes, let`s make references "to the speaker world" and ignore that actually people use Rudistor-amps as pre-amps for their 10.000€ speaker rigs.

Like I do, with a RPX-33.
Fantastic sound, never having had any issues.

The problem is, most of us can`t judge about most of the technical details.
In that case, I tend to trust the one that goes along very well with my own experiences as a user, and I certainly distrust the one who repeatedly needs to argue by putting down other guy`s work.

In other words:
The "Gods" and their believers may continue to bust their egos with their bashing routines, while I`ll continue to simply enjoy my Rudistor amps, like I do for years now.

As for the Coriolan, I have no idea wether it`s worth it`s price or not, but unlike others I don`t pretend I could by simply looking at an announcement.
This is ridiculous beyond believe, and it will continue as long as Head-Fi exists, I`m afraid.

Sorry for my unperfect english (Kraut here), and knowing Rudi from several (very interesting and reliable) E-mail exchanges I know that he as an italian has the same problem of english not being his native language. Makes technical discussions more difficult, and I can perfectly understand that he`s not willing to go through that pain again and again just to deal with the egos of always the same know-it-alls.

 

[progo]

Certainly it looks fancy. No one forces you to buy one so...
Those who own Omega II or HE 90 will likely have more dough to actually buy these things if they want some variation.

 

[PFKMan23]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capunk /img/forum/go_quote.gif I thought KGBHSE is on luxurious area, and a bit far from mainstream.

The mainstream competitors phrase is meant to highlight the companies, not necessarily the product. I think we would all agree that the Coriolan is very much into the luxury based side of things and comparatively more affordable than the Coriolan.

 

[tourmaline]

re: cost of the amp:

some good transformers can easally cost you way over 600-1000 euro's alone for the transformer! And it has huge impact on the sound! Furthermore, my guess is that a large portion also goes into devellopment and research, testing the amp and different materials. All those costs have to be earned back!
in respect: as kevin said earlier, there were much more expensive amps around, like the original amp for the he90, this set was in europa 15.000 - 20.000 alone at that time!( amp + he90).

Hic sunt leones: litteral translation means: here there are lions, means in modern english: where no one has gone before!

Looking at the mega buck amps, the 9500 euro's isn't too much out of place.

They sell 50.000 and more expensive amps also.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L /img/forum/go_quote.gif Uh, am I reading Rudistor site different from everyone else? Why is everyone saying it's an EL34 amp when the site says: "The amp uses basically EL84 (x4) as power drivers and 12AX7 (x2) as signal amplifiers."

The way i look at it: it's is a tube rectified powersupply ( a seperate powersupply) and a pre-poweramp in the second chassis(most left chassis).

 

[Roam]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif re: cost of the amp: some good transformers can easally cost you way over 600-1000 euro's alone for the transformer! And it has huge impact on the sound!

Which is completely irrelevant as the Coriolan does NOT have a single audio transformer in it. The power transformer is the one and only transformer, and there is no way it costs anywhere near $600, let alone $1000. Even a high quality custom unit is around $200-300 at most.

Quote:

Looking at the mega buck amps, the 9500 euro's isn't too much out of place.

Given what one is getting for those 9500 Euros, it is big issue.

65dB of gain using a 12AX7 & triode wired EL34s is flat out impossible even with ideal tubes running at full gain unless there's an additional solidstate or transformer gain stage somewhere. Look up the 12AX7 and EL34 datasheets if you don't believe me, in an ideal case they can give 60dB of gain. Real world tubes plugged into an actual circuit will have around 50-57dB depending on the amount of negative feedback used, which means a solidstate gain stage is required to achieve the manufacturer's claimed gain of 65dB. So much for the claim of the use of triode topologies assure the right, coherent, and natural harmonic distortion pattern, that assisted by some solid state components (in order to control some auxiliary functions). Pure BS, unless by "auxiliary functions" he really means "in the direct signal path, providing gain".

Then there's the big fat lie, claiming a greater than 120dB signal to noise ratio with 65dB of gain. This is also flat out impossible due to Johnson noise unless the amplifier is sitting in a tub of liquid helium. 0.04% distortion from 12AX7 tubes also isn't happening without the liberal use of CCS loads, buffered output drive, and negative feedback.

I don't know about everyone else, but I refuse to support a manufacturer which makes bold faced lies and impossible claims about their products.

 

[yotacowboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by krmathis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Of course not! 1. I don't even cost $20,000 2. There are others costs involved in building an amplifier than parts costs. Such as man power for developing and building the amplifier, parts used during development, and more ... I don't question that it is a well build and probably great sounding amplifier. But €9500 is a lot of money, especially comparing to the other high-end amplifiers out there (KHBH, KGBH SE, ES-1, ES-2, Aristaeus, ...).

tongue was firmly pressed to cheek!

 

[Acoustic Chef]

Aww man! This thing looks so yummy.... Can I have one...?

I'll sell you my soal...

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roam /img/forum/go_quote.gif Which is completely irrelevant as the Coriolan does NOT have a single audio transformer in it. The power transformer is the one and only transformer, and there is no way it costs anywhere near $600, let alone $1000. Even a high quality custom unit is around $200-300 at most. Given what one is getting for those 9500 Euros, it is big issue. 65dB of gain using a 12AX7 & triode wired EL34s is flat out impossible even with ideal tubes running at full gain unless there's an additional solidstate or transformer gain stage somewhere. Look up the 12AX7 and EL34 datasheets if you don't believe me, in an ideal case they can give 60dB of gain. Real world tubes plugged into an actual circuit will have around 50-57dB depending on the amount of negative feedback used, which means a solidstate gain stage is required to achieve the manufacturer's claimed gain of 65dB. So much for the claim of the use of triode topologies assure the right, coherent, and natural harmonic distortion pattern, that assisted by some solid state components (in order to control some auxiliary functions). Pure BS, unless by "auxiliary functions" he really means "in the direct signal path, providing gain". Then there's the big fat lie, claiming a greater than 120dB signal to noise ratio with 65dB of gain. This is also flat out impossible due to Johnson noise unless the amplifier is sitting in a tub of liquid helium. 0.04% distortion from 12AX7 tubes also isn't happening without the liberal use of CCS loads, buffered output drive, and negative feedback. I don't know about everyone else, but I refuse to support a manufacturer which makes bold faced lies and impossible claims about their products.

Roam,

you still make me laugh!

iso tango power transformers:
545.00
515.00
422.00 euro's. So converted to the dollar that's about 545 x 1.4= 763, 515 x 1.4=721 and 422x 1.4= 590 dollars........more then double your estimate.

Not to mention audio note silver wire transformers etc.

Now you're not only putting down chinese amps, but you also put Italian amps and designers down now! you're making progress!

 

[Roam]

With regards to the Tango transformers, look up the applications and what they're used for. The expensive ones you've quoted are for 100-200W 6550/KT88 amplifiers, high voltage 211/845 amplifiers, and 300B amps which require extensive shielding to prevent noise from coupling into the filament supplies. The prices for their EL34 transformers are in the $200-300 range. Learn to read next time.

Trying to pull a fast one won't work, I've ordered many of these parts before, I know what they're worth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif I know it is an output transformer and not a tube driver transformer, roam!

People who don't know the difference between a power transformer and an audio signal transformer should put on their dunce caps and go stand in the corner. This means you.

Power transformers are a breeze to wind compared to audio transformers, that's why high-end units from Lundahl top out at around $200, and even custom orders from Magnequest, Tribute, Electra-Print and others top out at around $300-350 or so unless it's something like a 1kVA unit.

It's hard to believe you're dumb enough to claim that the power transformer in the Rudistor is worth at least 600 Euros based on the fact that Audionote sells audio transformers for over £1000.