rolled some fuses - this is what I heard

[slwiser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawnGnome /img/forum/go_quote.gif So your saying a standard fuse passes no current?

Of course not. If all depends on your definition of crimp. If in crimp as being closed then you have no circuit. The only way to fill a water pistol is to have some access to the water up stream of the crimp.

I am thinking you are saying crimp as in increased resistance as opposed to closed as I understood it.

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slwiser /img/forum/go_quote.gif Check out this link and think again. Hydraulic analogy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Are you saying that a fuse acts as a resistor?

See ya
Steve

 

[slwiser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif Are you saying that a fuse acts as a resistor? See ya Steve

That is what got me into trouble above, no I was not, it seem that someone else was. Crimped to me in this context is a closed circuit. How can you fill a water gun from a closed crimped hose is what I was questioning without access to the water when it is crimped. Seems like someone is attempting to keep on changing the context.

 

[Vul Kuolun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slwiser /img/forum/go_quote.gif Seems like someone is attempting to keep on changing the context.

That's absurd. "Acoustic Chef" tried to imply that a fuse may act like a crimp in a hose, meaning it is limiting the flow of electricity in the power line. That's all.
I cannot imagine he was meaning that a electrical device cannot work at all as long as a fuse is in the power line. Can you?

 

[slwiser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acoustic Chef /img/forum/go_quote.gif You crimp a hose how does that effect the water flow?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif Electrical current through wires and water through a hose are not at all similar, I'm afraid. See ya Steve

Quote:

Originally Posted by slwiser /img/forum/go_quote.gif Check out this link and think again. Hydraulic analogy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vul Kuolun /img/forum/go_quote.gif Check the relations. The error in reasoning is not that the water analogy is not applicable. It's just that if you crimp a major pipeline, you can still fill your water gun with what's left behind the bottleneck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vul Kuolun /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's absurd. "Acoustic Chef" tried to imply that a fuse may act like a crimp in a hose, meaning it is limiting the flow of electricity in the power line. That's all. I cannot imagine he was meaning that a electrical device cannot work at all as long as a fuse is in the power line. Can you?

Logic does not apply to this thread as it has deteriorated into confusion.

1. I was addressing in my first post the question of whether electrical circuits and water circuit were similar. The laws of symmetry applies to both fields as shown in the link. Bigshot first stated that they were not similar and I took issue with that strict statement by showing a link to the symmetry of hydraulic and current analysis. "Acoustic Chef" statement was not in my view as to what I was addressing in that first post.

2. Then Vul said something about filling water gun from a broken circuit or a closed circuit as I understood it. I took issue with that saying the only way to get water or current is if you had some access to the upstream source. Which of course with a crimped hose or broken fuse is not possible.

3. I did not address anything about what "Acoustic Chef" said. His post is being supported by everything that I have stated.

4. I don't know how the confusion about current going through a failed fuse can be taken from what I stated.

5. Vul, in item 2 it appears to me that it is you that was making some statement about a blown fuse passing current in this context.

I know this is not what you were saying but it lead to my confusion in later statements.

So now I am completely confused as to what context is supposed to be in the works right now.

Sorry if my contributions have led to this confusion.

 

[Vul Kuolun]

The last time i checked, the point was "standard" vs. "audiophile" fuse, not "broken" vs. "intact" fuse.

Maybe the point was that i was aiming more at Acoustic Chefs statement,not at bigshots.

If it was for broken vs. intact, i'm sure we can agree on the fact that broken fuses sound worse than intact ones. D'accord?

 

[slwiser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vul Kuolun /img/forum/go_quote.gif The last time i checked, the point was "standard" vs. "audiophile" fuse, not "broken" vs. "intact" fuse. If it was for broken vs. intact, i'm sure we can agree on the fact that broken fuses sound worse than intact ones. D'accord?

All I have been attempting to address is the similarity between how water and current flows and provided a link to suggest that there are similarities which was an issue in Bigshot's post. And it got to here....

Sorry, again for introducing some engineering relationships with that link.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acoustic Chef /img/forum/go_quote.gif You crimp a hose how does that effect the water flow?

All depends on how the waterflow will be used, if you need the full flow it has an impact, now if the flow will be used to feed a dropper or an small little tiny hose, it doesn't matter, as there has to be a place for storage of the water first, indeed it will help as will make the reservoir smaller, as it will take more time to get full....

I have some degree in hydraulics, if you want a debate let me know...Bernoulli to the rescue!!!! BTW a fuse is not a restriction on the flow of the current, it is a restriction for the excess that may result in a short circuit and overheating as a result, that is completelly different, in normal conditions the fuse will act the same as if you have a gauge 2 cooper wire there...otherwise change the fuses on the mains home!!!

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slwiser /img/forum/go_quote.gif That is what got me into trouble above, no I was not, it seem that someone else was.

The wikipedia link you posted cited the analogy of a "smaller pipe" (which I'm assuming as being like a crimped hose) being the same as a resistor. Perhaps the waterworks analogy isn't so good after all.

See ya
Steve

 

[slwiser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif The wikipedia link you posted cited the analogy of a "smaller pipe" (which I'm assuming as being like a crimped hose) being the same as a resistor. Perhaps the waterworks analogy isn't so good after all. See ya Steve

Maybe not, but I know I should not have brought it up now.

 

[stevenkelby]

There may be more to it than that. 2 cables, or pipes, with exactly the same diameter, pressure and flow can still perform differently due to internal or exit turbulence. Just a thought.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenkelby /img/forum/go_quote.gif There may be more to it than that. 2 cables, or pipes, with exactly the same diameter, pressure and flow can still perform differently due to internal or exit turbulence. Just a thought.

But again it is very important to define how much of that total flow you actually need, or are going ot use, if you are using a 10% or less, the rest is just waste ...

 

[Vul Kuolun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenkelby /img/forum/go_quote.gif There may be more to it than that. 2 cables, or pipes, with exactly the same diameter, pressure and flow can still perform differently due to internal or exit turbulence. Just a thought.

There you go, introducing the "maybe we do not know everything about cables or electricity"-hypothesis.

Doesn't make sense. As long as you can match the characteristics of the water you put in the tube with what's coming out of it, it doesn't matter what turbulences may happen inside or at the ends of it. You could always see a difference, if there was any.

The point is, the "water" we're sending through it may have an infinite number of characteristics; but we're only interested in the attributes we're trying to put through it.

You don't have to worry about all the wicked stuff that may happen inside the tube. It's totally redundant. As long as the information you're appliyng at one end of the tube appears on the other side without distortion, the tube did it's job. We're using it for a specific purpose, not for a process that has to be perfect in all attributes per se.

If we put green water in, and blue water comes out is totaly redundant when all that we're trying to bring across is how many gallons per minute pass through it in a specific number of cycles of changing the flow direction.

 

[stevenkelby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif But again it is very important to define how much of that total flow you actually need, or are going ot use, if you are using a 10% or less, the rest is just waste ...

Maybe using 10% of smoothly flowing water is better than using 10% of messy, turbulent water?

 

[stevenkelby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vul Kuolun /img/forum/go_quote.gif There you go, introducing the "maybe we do not know everything about cables or electricity"-hypothesis. Doesn't make sense.

Come on, really, are you serious?

I don't want to insult you but are you honestly saying from the bottom of your heart, with everything that know as a man that:

"We know all there is to know" about anything?

If so I have no response for you.

I know very little about cables but I know enough about the world to know that no-one knows everything about anything.

My comment:

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenkelby /img/forum/go_quote.gif There may be more to it than that.

or even your mis-quoting of it:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vul Kuolun /img/forum/go_quote.gif "maybe we do not know everything about cables or electricity"

are not just philosophies or ideas, they are facts!

I don't know if power cords or fuses make a difference, I think they probably can, I've never heard a difference, but I understand why it's logically possible (I'll explain if you want). I;m also aware of placebo, DBTs and the difficulty in proving these things. I'm open to either possibility, maybe they do, maybe they don't. I don't know and neither do you. We all have our thoughts and beliefs, but no-one knows for sure, at least they can't prove it to my satisfaction. Maybe one day they will, maybe not.

The truth of the matter is:

"There is more to it than we know, and we do not know everything about cables or electricity, or anything else."

I defy any intelligent person to believe otherwise!