Riviera AIC-10 headphones & speakers amplifier
Jul 10, 2020 at 7:45 PM Post #61 of 1,873
So my friend ended up selling me the amp, he loved it a lot, but he decided to stick with his HPA4.

I was not able to get it as "used" price as I originally hoped for but he did offer me a deferred payment option which was great.

Anyone else find the swapping of tubes a little scary?

Despite removing the tube as carefully as possible, it still seems a little scary with the white base with the amount of force needed to wiggle out the tube.
 
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Jul 10, 2020 at 11:52 PM Post #62 of 1,873
All the testing was done with my Abyss TC 1266; it was the headphone that made me upgrade my whole chain as it kept scaling up. It is also the headphone that completely decimated my wallet as I upgraded my whole chain.

I will start off by comparing the WA33 Elite to the AIC-10 with the pros and cons listed below with an ending summary at the end. Below that will be the tube comparisons used with the AIC-10.

WA33 Elite Pros:

I like how it has its base as a separate power supply; I also like the look of the “all out tube” amp.

I like how despite using so many tubes, it can still maintain a superb “SS” sound overall with certain tubes. It is very transparent for a tube amp.

WA33 Elite Cons:

The tubes for this when upgraded are very expensive, especially for the power tubes and the rectifier. Tubes always have limited lives and the thought of replacing multiple different tubes sometimes is a little annoying. With that said if you own the WA33 Elite, you will gladly replace the tubes when needed.

The large foot print sometimes can be a nuisance but I understand that for an amp of this sort, compacting it into a smaller footprint will be hard as the tube layout already takes up much of the space.

AIC-10 Pros:

I love how the amp having this subtle European look to it that words can’t really describe, the photos of the item online do it no justice.

I love how it only requires one tube to be rolled, and that specific tube type is not as costly as the WA33 options.

I was introduced to the remote volume controller with the Benchmark HPA4, and am a huge fan of this feature. The AIC-10 does this feature well, and it is very satisfying to use the volume remote and watch the volume knob spin on its own from a far.

With the right single tube matched to your tastes, this amp can really shine for you. The single tube changes the sound by quite a bit.

AIC-10 Cons:

I would imagine it to be a little difficult (US Customers) to send unit in for warranty/repair as the manufacturer is not US based.

Tube rolling requires one to take off the top lid of the amp, may be a deal breaker for some, changing out the tubes for me was not natural and a bit daunting due to how the tube holder is positioned inside the case.

Summary AIC-10 VS WA33 Elite /w Upgraded Tubes:

They both sound fantastic and both have tube options for you to adjust to your personal tastes. You want a more tubey sound with either amp? Done. You want a more SS sound with either amp? Done.

I can imagine each amp being able to adjust their tubes to a point where it is hard to tell which amp you are listening to. For me personally, I have these unjustified fears of needing to worry for multiple tubes so I would lean towards the AIC-10 ever so slightly if I had to choose. I would be extremely happy with either amp as they are both amazing. I know most would want a definite answer as to which is “better” but despite wanting to answer that for myself, I really can’t.

Tube Comparisons for the AIC-10:


Stock JJ Electronic ECC802-S tube sounded pretty good to me despite it not being NOS. Reading and seeing that many people liking the Mullard NOS tubes, it was the next tube I swapped to. I found that I actually preferred the stock tube over the Mullard. This came at a big surprise to me because the popular majority vote for this amp definitely sways towards the Mullard tubes. The Mullard NOS (Specifically the CV491) has this warm, smooth, heavier bass with a larger 3d sound, but at the expense of losing a little transparency. It also brought the bass of the Abyss to levels where I felt it was a tad bit too much. I am pretty sure most people will not mind the slight loss of transparency but for me, I prefer the neutral/boring/transparent sound.

I recognize I am in the minority camp here as even the owners of the company recommend the Mullard NOS tubes. I feel like the unpopular kid voicing his opinion here, as all the cool kids are rocking with the M like how Jay-Z rocks his triangle.

Now to the next tube, the RadioTechnique that Simorag/BPED put me on…

They told me that this tube has that all-rounder, neutral, balanced sound. I was foaming at the mouth behind my computer screen when receiving these messages. I found this tube to be the one for me as it is the closest sound to being direct out of the DAVE with similar high transparency along with a slight touch of more weight to the mids. Too bad DAVE by itself just does not have enough power for the Abyss, otherwise I may have skipped the amp altogether.

Of course, these tube/tastes preferences are just my own, and I listen primarily to Pop/Hip Hop/EDM/Modern Classical (2cellos, Piano Guys) so my “priorities” may be different. A reputable member here loves his Mullard and is his top #1 tube so it's just a matter of tastes.

For the stock tube being compared to the RadioTechnique, I prefer the RadioTechnique as it has a bit more extension in the highs without ever coming across as harsh. I can probably live with the JJ Electronic stock tube though as it is a great offering especially given as stock.

NOS Mullard Tube AIC-10 vs WA33 Elite /w Upgraded Tubes: I compare the AIC-10 + Mullard Tube to the WA33 Elite /w Upgraded Tubes as this comparison gave them both the closest sound together, in that both have a more tubey sound with emphasis on the mids. Between the two, I would choose the WA33 due to slightly more transparency but this could be just the tubes doing its work. Tubes for the WA33 Elite once again were the KR Rectifier, KR Power Tubes HP, and the EH Gold Pins.

Radiotechnique Tube AIC-10 vs WA33 Elite /w Upgraded Tubes: I preferred the AIC-10 over the WA33 in this case. The all-rounder Radio Technique with the AIC-10 just sounds balanced and “correct” for my own personal tastes. Combine that with the preference of 1 tube vs 9 tubes, AIC-10 takes the cake for me. I want to re-emphasize though, the WA33 is fantastic and I am not taking anything away from it at all.

AIC-10 vs Benchmark HPA4: Having owned the HPA4, the value of that amp is just immense. It is a wonderful amp and is a transparent beast. Of course, weighing cost into the equation, the HPA4 is a STRONG choice. Despite liking the AIC-10 more, it is also around 5 times more expensive and no where 5 times better. Make no mistake, I do love the HPA4 dearly. Matter fact, my friend who initially bought this amp is keeping his HPA4 and sold this amp to me. =) =( at the same time for me.

These are just my first impressions. If impressions change, I will update to this thread.

With that said, fellow head-fi fam, hope some of you got some value out of this.

“He who is not contented with what he has would not be contented with what he would like to have.” -Socrates
 
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Jul 11, 2020 at 12:46 AM Post #63 of 1,873
Jul 11, 2020 at 6:48 AM Post #64 of 1,873
@Swisshead: thank you very much.

I would be happy to share my experiences on various topics with several HeadFi-members in the future. And of course I don't have any business relations to producers or distributors, but run my website without commercial interests.

But I only write in German language, so unfortunately most here have to use Google translator to read my reviews. By the way, it's much better with DeepL...:wink:

Fidelio
 
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Jul 11, 2020 at 8:31 AM Post #65 of 1,873
Thanks for your report Frank and congratulations!! Let us know how things evolve once the tubes get burned in.

And yes, I did find changing the tube quite scary the first time. I think the RT had been in place for a couple of years and I was in a cold sweat once I finally managed to get it out. Now I find it very easy, just a question of knowing your new toy
Have fun :)
 
Jul 11, 2020 at 11:19 AM Post #66 of 1,873
Riviera AIC-10 sound tests

My equipment for the tests


  • Qobuz Hi-Res – Roon
  • Innuos Zenith mkIII streamer
  • Chord MScaler + Dave DAC
  • Abyss TC with superconductor cable
  • Focal Utopia with Danacable Lazuli Reference cable
  • Various other cables which I will spare you this time…

Going bananas

Apparently, this is one of those things you shouldn’t try at home and certainly not without parental supervision… however, curiosity was too strong and I did a little experiment which was already mentioned here by the always resourceful @simorag

Connecting the Abyss TC to the Riviera speakers’ output with banana connectors is a sure way to get to heaven! BUT BE CAREFUL NOT TO BLOW UP YOUR HEADSET BY KEEPING VOLUME DOWN.

Speakers output basically gives a larger and deeper soundstage without fundamentally impacting the transparency and overall tonal balance.


Remember that I am talking here about shades, small details and differences, and I that I need somehow to magnify my perceptions in order to describe them (that’s what hi-fi is all about right?). There are no “night and day”, earth shattering experiences in my world!

All the tests below have been done through speakers output for the Abyss TC and through 6.35 headset output for the Utopia comparing each to the Dave output, which for me is a reference of transparency and fidelity to the source.



Mullard ECC82: long plate, D getter, Blackburn, 1958

A much sought after, UK manufactured tube. This is the most euphonic tube I have.

Abyss

The Riviera paints a very big, 3D sonic landscape, with a sweet, involving, relaxing, slightly warm sound signature. But make no mistake, it remains very dynamic and impactful.

Compared to the Dave output, the Riviera has a good dynamic range, it puts a bit of emphasis on mids and lows, highs are a bit rolled off. It is a bit less transparent but still doing very well and it has more “body". The soundstage is amazing, much larger, taller and deeper.

Perfect for orchestral music, with effective, “tactile” reproduction of the different sections of instruments.

On small jazz groups or chamber music, instruments are larger, with fuller bass and more impact. The tonal balance is a touch darker. The loss of transparency is slightly more noticeable on direct comparison. Spatial clues are much better. I just love how it reproduces the tone of a bass clarinet, or the low keys of a closely mic’ed piano. Female voices are gorgeous, not hyper detailed but very engaging.

In short, if you want to be seduced by the music and forget about the rest, this is your tube.

Utopia (Lazuli reference)

The Riviera/Utopia combo is fun and decidedly tilted towards a mids-lows. Strong impactful bass, larger scene and instruments.

In short: not very accurate for acoustic music but great for pop, rock, bass heavy music types.



La Radiotechnique 12AU7WA: O getter, 14 mm plate, military use, 1950s


This is a well-balanced tube by the French subsidiary of Philips.

Abyss

The Riviera is airy, punchy, precise but never shrill, with instruments clearly placed in a large scene.

The reproduction of acoustic double bass is fantastic: I feel the vibration and slap of a big tensed string. Bass go very deep if needed, remaining structured, defined. Percussions are equally impressive, fast when appropriate, resonant. I can easily imagine the leather being hit.

Voices are very precise, less sweet than with the Mullard, more realistic (which can be good or bad depending on the recording). Strings and in particular violins are pleasantly reproduced with detailed but controlled highs.

Compared to the Dave output, the Riviera has a very similar tonality, transparency is almost on par, but it sounds more effortless, more impactful, instruments are less edgy and better defined (double bass for example). Highs are very, very slightly rolled off: I can detect that only with a careful comparison and it results in a less fatiguing listening experience. The scene is larger, taller, deeper but less than with the Mullard.

In short: if you want a pleasantly dynamic and realistic listening experience, this is your tube.

Utopia (Lazuli reference)

As many have reported here, the Utopia-Lazuli-Mscaler-Dave setup is hard to beat, which is way I was very curious to hear how the Riviera would do. And the Dave has certainly more than enough power to drive the Utopia.

Compared to the Dave, the Riviera sounds very very similar, same tonality and almost same transparency (which is rather amazing), slightly better and larger 3D effect, slightly bigger instruments, more weight to the notes and better controlled highs.

Conclusion: the Riviera in low gain makes the Dave output redundant. I would never buy it alone for the Focal but it is amazing to see how it matches and improves over this setup.


Dario / Radiotechnique 12AU7, 1956


This is the tube I am using these days and I love it. It’s another RT model, built differently. I was surprised to see how it flares up for second when turning on the amp!

It is very close to the RT above. In my notes I wrote vivid, detailed, dynamic, impactful. I think is adds a touch to the mid-range in a nice way. The Utopia benefits even more, along the lines of what I wrote above.

Conclusions: even less famed, very affordable tubes can be great finds!


NEW! Mullard CV491 k61, Blackburn, 1956


This looks identical to the Mullard ECC82 reviewed above, I cannot see the getter though. It was built for use by the UK military. I wonder whether it has different construction features, or it simply passed a more thorough quality test compared to the ECC82.

They sound the same and have the same impressive 3D scene, a great tube!



NEW! Fivre 12AU7 “412”, 1954


These two Fivre (see below) are a mystery to me and unfortunately there is very little information about codes, years, production sites etc. Their construction share many similarities (plate structure, micas, style of codes printed and etched on the bottom) but also some differences (grey and black plates, connection of the getter to the mica). Sound wise they are opposite!

The “412” is warm and dynamic, not dissimilar from a Mullard. There some small differences especially in the spatial representation but I am not able to pin them down. I would put them in the same basket. Recommended.


NEW! Fivre 12AU7 “575” 1950s

The “575” is a katana 😉, by far the most transparent and detailed tube I own.

Abyss TC

The Riviera is transformed in a super Dave: fast, detailed, transparent. Scene is a bit wider and larger via speakers line, the Dave alone seems a bit flatter. I do not notice any roll off of highs, violins are detailed, female voices are very realistic and they can present some hiss if that’s in the recording. Bass is not more present compared to the Dave but more controlled and very well defined. The overall presentation perhaps lacks a touch of “weight” that balanced tubes like the RT provide.

Conclusions: a very peculiar tube that requires careful choice of albums to be enjoyed with the TC. On well recorded, warm tracks it shines; a few times I had the weird feeling that the Riviera was more transparent than the Dave (is it actually possible?).

Utopia Danacable LR

That’s an easier pairing due to the warmer tone of the Utopia. The tonal balance is very similar to the one with the Dave, the transparency is on par. The Riviera is better especially with a slightly larger and deeper scene and bigger instruments.


More tube fun in the future 😉

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Fantastic write up on the tubes, thank you!

"Conclusions: a very peculiar tube that requires careful choice of albums to be enjoyed with the TC. On well recorded, warm tracks it shines; a few times I had the weird feeling that the Riviera was more transparent than the Dave (is it actually possible?)."

^Is this segment for the 2nd Fivre Tube only?
 
Jul 11, 2020 at 5:07 PM Post #67 of 1,873
Thanks. Yes it refers to the Fivre “575”, btw I have two tubes with this code and they sound the same. It is definitely not an all rounder, excellent for transparency but sometimes challenging.
 
Jul 11, 2020 at 7:30 PM Post #68 of 1,873
My head be boppin' all day today on this weekend with a smirk.

I respect the CV491 Mullard. I love the Radiotechnique, and the stock tube sounds mighty fine. The RT is my fave thus far, the all rounder weapon of choice!
 
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Jul 11, 2020 at 7:56 PM Post #69 of 1,873
A reputable member here loves his Mullard and is his top #1 tube so it's just a matter of tastes.
For the stock tube being compared to the RadioTechnique, I prefer the RadioTechnique as it has a bit more extension in the highs without ever coming across as harsh. I can probably live with the JJ Electronic stock tube though as it is a great offering especially given as stock.

Generally I see two different camps of tube lovers, those who simply love the Mullard sound signature and those who prefer their tubes to sound as close to solid state as possible with just a bit of enhanced palpability and texture. I am in the latter camp as well.

IMO the great thing about 12AU7 tube type is the fact you can roll in 5814 tube types! If you like the Radiotechnique sound, considering the price category the Riviera plays in, keep an eye out for Siemens 5814A triple mica tube :dt880smile:

5814ATM.jpg
 
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Jul 11, 2020 at 7:58 PM Post #70 of 1,873
How does the Siemens compare to the RT if you were to attempt with words? Upon quickly researching price, they seem to be in the same price range (roughly $90 USD) am I looking at the wrong tube? Thanks for the heads up.
 
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Jul 11, 2020 at 11:40 PM Post #71 of 1,873
That's because 5814 is still relatively under-recognized by the masses and Radiotechnique prices have gone up way faster. When I bought RT, they were MUCH cheaper compared to Siemens 5814a. Before you buy the Siemens, make sure to ask if they are early 1960's (e.g. 1962).
Siemens 5814a will have overall similar balance/presentation as RT but have more German detail and speed, less soft/forgiving.
 
Jul 12, 2020 at 1:00 AM Post #72 of 1,873
Awesome, thank you for sharing that.
 
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Jul 12, 2020 at 5:41 AM Post #73 of 1,873
Well, I pulled the trigger - traded up from Formula S / Powerman to the AIC-10!
...
I tried it with my Avantgarde speakers, which are very efficient. It drove them beautifully, and the 10 watts per channel were more than sufficient to drive them as loud as I wanted. The combination of being able to drive my speakers as well as the musicality with the AB1266s is what put me over the edge.

Hi Mike, two spectacular setups indeed, and you clearly have a wonderful aesthetic taste as well :) How did the AIC-10 compare with your Air Tight ATM300R when driving the Avantgarde? Differences, similarities?

Hello,
for my review of the AIC10 I primarily used a Philips Miniwatt ECC82 in combination with the Susvara, but specially the AB1266 TC played a bit more balanced with the Mullard M8136.
Greetings
Fidelio

Welcome to head-fi, Fidelio! Your review of the AIC-10 was one that raised my interest on this amp when I was researching, so thank you for pointing me in the right direction :nerd:.

As for the pairing with the RAAL of which I read your most interesting review as well, I wish the resistor box of the RAAL SR1a was less voracious ... the AIC-10 is such a great timbre companion but runs out of steam too fast to be considered a truly satisfactory combo for my tastes.

Generally I see two different camps of tube lovers, those who simply love the Mullard sound signature and those who prefer their tubes to sound as close to solid state as possible with just a bit of enhanced palpability and texture. I am in the latter camp as well.

I find myself in both camps :beyersmile: depending on the mood, music genres, headphones/loudspeakers signature etc.

It is a great option to have only a single, not too expensive, tube to roll for tuning the balance of the AIC-10, also as a handy antidote against the 'addiction disease' which strikes many of us audiophiles (as in when you get used to your system, how good it may be, and you need to change something in the sound just to renew it to your ears, which sometimes brings to inopinate $$$ splurge).

Mullard Listening of the weekend (great showcase for the SR1a):

paganini.png


Fivre non-classical listening of the weekend (AB-1266 TC all the way)

gogo.png
 
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Jul 12, 2020 at 12:17 PM Post #74 of 1,873
Been enjoying the CV491 Mullard a bit more (still prefer the RadioTechnique overall) but the Mullard is slowly winning my heart, like the not so physically attractive girl with a great personality winning your heart type of deal.

When I wrote my break down above a few posts ago, I was trying to single out a solo tube so I do not have to keep tube rolling, but sometimes you are just in the mood for a different flavor, and can appreciate/understand why some other people love tube rolling so much.

Also this quote is so spot on the money:
" It is a great option to have only a single, not too expensive, tube to roll for tuning the balance of the AIC-10, also as a handy antidote against the 'addiction disease' which strikes many of us audiophiles (as in when you get used to your system, how good it may be, and you need to change something in the sound just to renew it to your ears, which sometimes brings to inopinate $$$ splurge)." -Simorag
 
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Jul 13, 2020 at 1:05 AM Post #75 of 1,873
Damn, sorry to repeat myself guys but I am starting to love the Mullard quite a bit. I think I will be keeping my Mullard and Radiotechnique as my "1 and 2" at the moment.

Kind of curious about the Telefunken ECC802S, I have a feeling it will be too bright for me though as the RadioTechnique highs are already reaching to levels where it is ALMOST too bright.
 

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