[TDHEAD]

I use a zynsonix speaker tap to hp adaptor box for a bit of peace of mind. not saying it'll totally prevent any mishaps from using speaker outs to headphones, but the box is designed to reduce such incidents. of course, due care with the volume knob is always good.

Is the performance sound difference really significant enough to warrant taking a chance not to mention the additional expense?

 

[Roasty]

Is the performance sound difference really significant enough to warrant taking a chance not to mention the additional expense?

with the aic10, yes. it sounds good thru the normal hp out, but it's very obviously better thru the speaker taps.

 

[TDHEAD]

with the aic10, yes. it sounds good thru the normal hp out, but it's very obviously better thru the speaker taps.

I will apologize for my ignorance but I am missing the whole speaker tap thing. Exactly how are the headphones connected to the amp? I am not understanding the cable configuration. Susvara out to...................(connections)? Basically what plugs into what cable wise?

 

[Roasty]

I will apologize for my ignorance but I am missing the whole speaker tap thing. Exactly how are the headphones connected to the amp? I am not understanding the cable configuration. Susvara out to...................(connections)? Basically what plugs into what cable wise?

The way I'm doing it is..
riviera
Speaker cables
Zynsonix adaptor box
headphone cable
headphone

another option is to skip the adaptor box. u can get a speaker tap to 4pin female xlr adaptor cable, and then plug in your hp cable into that 4pin female xlr end.

 

[eskamobob1]

I think a well powered Susvara does edge out the Aperio just slightly bass wise and is a bit more open and actually more e-stat like (traditionally) than the Aperio even is. I do also agree that the Aperio is absolutely excellent.

agreed here. my TD -> Stock aperio vs aic + sus isnt really a competition as sus looses only very minorly in detail and is a much more well rounded experience overall. It would be fun to see a better tuned aperio and how that stacks up, but who knows if we will ever get one.

 

[eskamobob1]

Is the performance sound difference really significant enough to warrant taking a chance not to mention the additional expense?

FWIW, I dont think there is any greater risk of damage or anything. I do personally feel its worth the expense, yes, but some here disagree (@number1sixerfan and @goldwerger are two with tons of experience that feel the opposite of what I do on the topic for example). I would say dont worry about it for now if it is stressing you out, but that it is worth playing around with if you get a chance later.

 

[simorag]

A question on speaker taps...I don't own a Riviera yet, but wondering about set up.

I'd be streaming from Mac Mini > Holo May > Riviera

I have Peter at DHC making me an adapter for speaker taps. Am I right in saying that the only thing to be mindful of when connecting to speaker taps is to turn the volume pot of the Riviera right down to start with?

I'm a little confused because Simone in much earlier posts seem to be suggesting his volume pot was at pretty similar levels regardless of headphone out or speaker taps connection.

Pretty scared of connecting either Sus or 1266 this way, but am surely just being a wimp. I'd rather be a careful wimp though

Just to clarify: if you set the volume pot at a certain position, the speaker out will indeed sound louder than the front headphones jack, even when the HIGH setting is chosen from the front knob. Not crazy louder, say h10 volume pot on speaker taps sounds roughly as loud as h12 on headphones out.

What I meant in my earlier post was that the sound quality on headphones like the 1266 and Susvara, after having adjusted the volume to compensate the loudness variation, was overall better to my ears. More clarity, dynamics, snappier transient response, bass impact, larger soundstage. This was especially true for the Susvara, which sounded a bit dull and veiled on the headphones out in direct comparison vs. the speaker taps.

As for the risk of damaging the headphones, I would not recommend a resistor box to the AIC-10 speaker taps. If your headphones are very efficient, there is no point on using the speaker outputs (my Valkyria for example are better served by the front plugs because of audible noise floor and volume pot usable range). With harder cans like the 1266 and even more the Susvara, noise is a non-issue, and the only thing to take care of is not going too loud with the sound by mistake, and even in this case you would need to be playing loud music close to max volume to blow the driver.

As for the amp itself, the AIC-10 has solid state output stage so it is not sensitive to zero load as some tube amps are, which again negates the need for a resistor box.

 

[goldwerger]

FWIW, I dont think there is any greater risk of damage or anything. I do personally feel its worth the expense, yes, but some here disagree (@number1sixerfan and @goldwerger are two with tons of experience that feel the opposite of what I do on the topic for example). I would say dont worry about it for now if it is stressing you out, but that it is worth playing around with if you get a chance later.

I’m actually comfortable plugging headphones directly to speaker amps. I’ve done it with more sensitive headphones with more powerful amps. Key, as mentioned before, is to turn the volume to zero.

As for the AIC10 - the interesting thing is this - the difference between the speaker out, headphone high gain out, and headphone low gain out is that the last two have resistors (at different levels) to where the speaker taps do not. So on one end, one would presume less in the path of the signal path, the more pure and better (generally a good assumption). On the other hand, I know that the amp designer has built it primarily as a headphone amp (with secondary speaker use; vs. the Levante that was built as speaker amp with headphone as secondary use case) - and in doing so has tuned the AIC around optimizing the sound from the headphone out.

So which is right? Both… I’m a big believer in experimenting. No right or wrong. I have both set up. For myself, I haven’t been able to make a strong determination that I prefer one over the other (though I do hear a very slight difference). At the moment, I mostly use the headphone out due to convenience, but I have both set up to play with.

 

[TDHEAD]

I’m actually comfortable plugging headphones directly to speaker amps. I’ve done it with more sensitive headphones with more powerful amps. Key, as mentioned before, is to turn the volume to zero.

As for the AIC10 - the interesting thing is this - the difference between the speaker out, headphone high gain out, and headphone low gain out is that the last two have resistors (at different levels) to where the speaker taps do not. So on one end, one would presume less in the path of the signal path, the more pure and better (generally a good assumption). On the other hand, I know that the amp designer has built it primarily as a headphone amp (with secondary speaker use; vs. the Levante that was built as speaker amp with headphone as secondary use case) - and in doing so has tuned the AIC around optimizing the sound from the headphone out.

So which is right? Both… I’m a big believer in experimenting. No right or wrong. I have both set up. For myself, I haven’t been able to make a strong determination that I prefer one over the other (though I do hear a very slight difference). At the moment, I mostly use the headphone out due to convenience, but I have both set up to play with.

Makes sense

 

[number1sixerfan]

FWIW, I dont think there is any greater risk of damage or anything. I do personally feel its worth the expense, yes, but some here disagree (@number1sixerfan and @goldwerger are two with tons of experience that feel the opposite of what I do on the topic for example). I would say dont worry about it for now if it is stressing you out, but that it is worth playing around with if you get a chance later.

On my end, I never did in-depth A/B testing. I just switched to the speaker outs once you mentioned it. I didn't notice a major difference just in switching, but I'm sure I'd be able to speak more to differences if I did in-depth testing. But for things like this, if the differences aren't major and apparent pretty quickly I just don't lose much sleep over it.

Although if I owned the AIC, I'd probably do some testing and land on one or the other, which I'd assume probably would be the speaker outs.

Also.. I need to stay out of this thread.. so tempting lol

 

[eskamobob1]

Also.. I need to stay out of this thread.. so tempting lol

You weren't supose to realize the real reason I tagged you

 

[number1sixerfan]

You weren't supose to realize the real reason I tagged you

 

[Malcyg]

So which is right? Both… I’m a big believer in experimenting. No right or wrong. I have both set up. For myself, I haven’t been able to make a strong determination that I prefer one over the other (though I do hear a very slight difference). At the moment, I mostly use the headphone out due to convenience, but I have both set up to play with.

Spot on. There are differences, but not such that one is definitively better than the other since there are variables relating to the phones, DAC and the source as well as the tube used in AIC which all come into play. With the right tube, source and DAC, the AIC is a perfect match with 1266 Phi TC imo and, in my setup, I actually slightly prefer the XLR headphone out with 1266. We cannot really speak in absolute terms about things where there are variables involved. As ever, it is a case of YMMV. Trust your own ears is always the best advice. Nothing else matters.

 

[TDHEAD]

On my end, I never did in-depth A/B testing. I just switched to the speaker outs once you mentioned it. I didn't notice a major difference just in switching, but I'm sure I'd be able to speak more to differences if I did in-depth testing. But for things like this, if the differences aren't major and apparent pretty quickly I just don't lose much sleep over it.

Although if I owned the AIC, I'd probably do some testing and land on one or the other, which I'd assume probably would be the speaker outs.

Also.. I need to stay out of this thread.. so tempting lol

Thanks I appreciate your comment. In the end I feel the same as to its an extra expense and maybe an issue just in being careful you don't forget and blow out you headphones. Riveria design and manufacture was focused around Headphones with the ability to also handle speakers a bonus. So I am going to just stay focused on that. I f I want to make any additional investment I focus on tube rolling options and cables. My dealer just told me yesterday that the AIC-10 price increased just this week so spending $$ on speaker Tap cables just does not seem a good investment at least for me . Thanks

 

[TDHEAD]

Here Here!!!!!!!!