[cel4145]

Nice info! I'm actually learning more about ampage than I thought I would. Also as far as not AB testing because we don't have a science labs worth of equipment to do it properly.. Wouldn't trying be better than nothing?

Anytime you can reduce the factors that bias a decision (audio or otherwise), you can have increased confidence in that decision. But without properly running the DBT, you aren't proving anything definitively.

 

[pctazhp]

Anytime you can reduce the factors that bias a decision (audio or otherwise), you can have increased confidence in that decision. But without properly running the DBT, you aren't proving anything definitively.

This may be the most succinct and profound post to date on this thread.

 

[mulder01]

I see the concerns about blind testing when people think they have passed - have they passed due to the test not being conducted properly? Fairly likely yes.

But failing a blind test (even a simple one done at home with a friend) can be the most eye opening experience - I think a lot of people WOULD fail - especially when testing things like DACs and it may open their minds a bit more to the fact that maybe their sighted listening tests and other people's impressions online may be fairly inaccurate. For me, opportunities to blind test are few and far between but one day I went to a mini meet with some other audio guys with my gear. My dac is a Violectric v800 (retails for about $1.5k) and another guy's DAC was a Matrix something-or-other and cost about $400. Both were sabre dacs, similar features, similar IO options, similar... size? Anyway, 'other guy' listened to his DAC vs mine and said he liked his better. I was surprised that someone could hear a difference between 2 dacs that were so similar. He insisted that he could and confidently and with plenty of self belief described in detail exactly what the differences were that he heard. I said to him I don't suppose you'd be willing to do an ABX test? Because if you can hear what you say you hear, then that's awesome for you because you know that you can cross any future DAC upgrade off your list and be confident that what you have is probably either just as good or better than DACs several times the price... I was keen to run the test because for me, if I could see someone describe these differences and back that up, I would perhaps believe a bit more that people actually can tell the differences between dacs (because I sure couldn't). He went on to do the test, thought he preferred, say, DAC 'B' in the blind test (which was actually mine) and went on to get 2/10 correct in his blind test... wot? For me that proved that even though someone can be so confident about a product and describe in such detail the improvements they are hearing, they really may in fact, have no idea what they are talking about, and for him, I think now he questions what he's hearing a bit more and realises just how much your mind can play tricks on you. If everyone could have an experience like that I think it would be a significant step in the right direction. However if their volume matching is off (in favour of the more expensive product) that may fill them with a false confidence that only makes the problem worse...

 

[U-3C]

I see the concerns about blind testing when people think they have passed - have they passed due to the test not being conducted properly? Fairly likely yes.

But failing a blind test (even a simple one done at home with a friend) can be the most eye opening experience - I think a lot of people WOULD fail - especially when testing things like DACs and it may open their minds a bit more to the fact that maybe their sighted listening tests and other people's impressions online may be fairly inaccurate. For me, opportunities to blind test are few and far between but one day I went to a mini meet with some other audio guys with my gear. My dac is a Violectric v800 (retails for about $1.5k) and another guy's DAC was a Matrix something-or-other and cost about $400. Both were sabre dacs, similar features, similar IO options, similar... size? Anyway, 'other guy' listened to his DAC vs mine and said he liked his better. I was surprised that someone could hear a difference between 2 dacs that were so similar. He insisted that he could and confidently and with plenty of self belief described in detail exactly what the differences were that he heard. I said to him I don't suppose you'd be willing to do an ABX test? Because if you can hear what you say you hear, then that's awesome for you because you know that you can cross any future DAC upgrade off your list and be confident that what you have is probably either just as good or better than DACs several times the price... I was keen to run the test because for me, if I could see someone describe these differences and back that up, I would perhaps believe a bit more that people actually can tell the differences between dacs (because I sure couldn't). He went on to do the test, thought he preferred, say, DAC 'B' in the blind test (which was actually mine) and went on to get 2/10 correct in his blind test... wot? For me that proved that even though someone can be so confident about a product and describe in such detail the improvements they are hearing, they really may in fact, have no idea what they are talking about, and for him, I think now he questions what he's hearing a bit more and realises just how much your mind can play tricks on you. If everyone could have an experience like that I think it would be a significant step in the right direction. However if their volume matching is off (in favour of the more expensive product) that may fill them with a false confidence that only makes the problem worse...

Well, I've gotten a fair amount of blame towards my ears as well as how careful I listen to music, that I just have poor taste, etc. because I claim I can't hear a difference between my laptop, my phone and my PC's integrated audio compared to the AKM AK4490. Funny though, as the more I try to put myself into a quiet, isolated room, the more careful I compare back and forth, and double check, and triple check...and the more I try to listen to "audiophile grade music," the more certain I am about my previous claims.

If I do it quickly, in haste, I always think I hear a difference. I'm just so certain it's there and I'm happy as I paid for it. Then I have to be a party pooper by switching back to whatever cheap source I have to check. Nah, just an illusion. Back to being sad about I wasted all that money and being screamed at.



I did a small test with my friends regarding low quality to high quality audio files. The ones who recognized my setup immediately always claimed to hear a difference, where as those who don't give a cr*p about expensive audio equipment were more concerned about why I payed so much money for these devices that doesn't sound any different from just plugging headphones into a smart phone and tried to offer me advice as they think I was tricked into a scam. Oh, and I recorded the results of that simple "blind" test. The one who was most confident scored 4/10, which is pretty close to random guessing. She was so surprised by it as she swore she heard a difference, and she even ended up recommending my test to her boyfriend.

This test wasn't designed to prove or disprove any anything major. It was more of a sanity check because I friggin' can't hear anything special and I was seriously convinced that I was deaf or something.

 

[RRod]

Also something about you using a fulla with the HD800 makes me happy.

 
I'm sure happy to have the extra desk space back. You really don't need to dedicate a hectare to power these things, I swear!

 

[cel4145]

I'm sure happy to have the extra desk space back. You really don't need to dedicate a hectare to power these things, I swear!

Surely, though, one can stack a larger headphone amp on top of the Yggy, which one must have in order get the best sound out of the HD800

 

[RRod]

Surely, though, one can stack a larger headphone amp on top of the Yggy, which one must have in order get the best sound out of the HD800

 
The funny thing is that I don't need the music louder; I need the environment softer! So much like in speaker-land, I'd get more by treating the room than by buying an amp that can weaponize my transducers.

 

[U-3C]

Speaking of the rising cost of audio equipment...these are now dropped on Massdrop.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ortofon-ec7s

I know cables are usually the last to be recommended as an upgrade to anything, but I also know that cables can change the sound, even if it's subtle.

I'm curious of everyone's opinions. I really am. In some rare cases, I have read (in the SS subforum) that cables can in fact cause changes in audio and it's not hard to alter the sound of things like headphones or iems with cables if one really wants to, especially in the rare case that original cables are already doing something to the sound. However...what about spending some time to investigate changes that one finds pleasing, and then applying those changes via EQ? Any specific disadvantages/limitations with that?

 

[lawlbear]

I personally wish they would list more technical things on their equipment, like frequency responses.

 

[james444]

Speaking of the rising cost of audio equipment...these are now dropped on Massdrop.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ortofon-ec7s

I know cables are usually the last to be recommended as an upgrade to anything, but I also know that cables can change the sound, even if it's subtle.

I'm curious of everyone's opinions. I really am. In some rare cases, I have read (in the SS subforum) that cables can in fact cause changes in audio and it's not hard to alter the sound of things like headphones or iems with cables if one really wants to, especially in the rare case that original cables are already doing something to the sound. However...what about spending some time to investigate changes that one finds pleasing, and then applying those changes via EQ? Any specific disadvantages/limitations with that?

 
Why not just skip the cable rolling and investigate changes directly via EQ?

 

[U-3C]

Why not just skip the cable rolling and investigate changes directly via EQ?

Sorry, I might have worded that incorrectly. I just meant...what's wrong with playing with eq until you are happy?

0_0???

If something is wrong, try to figure out what it is and try to solve that via EQ. Say if one isn't happy with the sound, find the reasons why. If it's because the highs are trying to murder the poor person with knives, make a metal note, open the EQ settings and kill them back. That's what I meant by "investigate."

;w;

 

[james444]

Sorry, I might have worded that incorrectly. I just meant...what's wrong with playing with eq until you are happy?

0_0???

If something is wrong, try to figure out what it is and try to solve that via EQ. Say if one isn't happy with the sound, find the reasons why. If it's because the highs are trying to murder the poor person with knives, make a metal note, open the EQ settings and kill them back. That's what I meant by "investigate."

;w;

 
Absolutely nothing wrong with that... and Master-EQer @Joe Bloggs even provides a great tutorial:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/794467/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-2016-update
 
Btw, here's the story of one of Joe's equalized budget IEMs going up against some of my $$$$ ones:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/726569/review-tour-somic-mh412-viper4android-the-put-up-or-shut-up-review-and-tour

 

[Koolpep]

Hi Guys,
 
I want to add my experience here as well.
 
EQ:
 
- if you use different headphones (I do all the time) that need different EQ it's a bit of a hassle to change it
- some DAPs don't have EQ like my HM-901
- some EQ implementations are pretty poor
 
Of course these are not universal arguments against EQ - these are just my reasons why I am not so comfortable using EQ. I have the FLC8S IEMs with 36 tuning options via filter combinations. I somehow prefer that to EQ-ing. Maybe someone can make a study about why people (me included) dislike EQ - event though it's a good and easy way to alter the sound exactly the way you like it? I really wonder why I am like that. Now I slowly warm up to the idea - with the old vintage "treble" and "bass" dials. 
 
Blind testing:
I have an input switcher - it saved me from so many silly purchases. And showed me how many redundant ones I have made. But when testing some things, where I cannot hear a difference to save my life, on one friend of mine - and he gets it right every single time, then I also understand that:
 
- I am lucky, since I don't hear the difference of the expensive one vs inexpensive, I can use the less expensive things and be happy and content
- I am missing out on some of the better sound quality - as I am not able to distinguish it (in some areas)
 
I should always say: they sound the same to ME (very very subjective).
 
That's why I am totally in "between the chairs" (in english I think it's "between the camps"), as for me, a lot of things are snake oil, sound the same, etc. etc. but the exact same test, others can actually hear a difference. 
 
But one huge benefit of switching live is that you get a reality check about the differences and how small they actually are (contrary to what I remembered the differences to be) - even when doing it sighted.
 
Cables:
Steve Eddy (formerly Q-Audio) and Brian Goto (BTG-Audio, Q-Audio) both sell custom cables and had/have a similar stance on their effects . Here is their point of view: http://www.btg-audio.com/cable-facts 
 
Cheers.

 

[Ruben123]

If youre into EQ'ing check this link!! http://www.head-fi.org/t/672375/great-news-for-rooted-android-users-viper4android
 
I have to make profiles for my headphones still.... but it promises to actually improve the music quality by extremes --> http://www.head-fi.org/t/726569/review-tour-somic-mh412-viper4android-the-put-up-or-shut-up-review-and-tour

 

[mulder01]

Speaking of the rising cost of audio equipment...these are now dropped on Massdrop.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ortofon-ec7s

I know cables are usually the last to be recommended as an upgrade to anything, but I also know that cables can change the sound, even if it's subtle.

I'm curious of everyone's opinions. I really am. In some rare cases, I have read (in the SS subforum) that cables can in fact cause changes in audio and it's not hard to alter the sound of things like headphones or iems with cables if one really wants to, especially in the rare case that original cables are already doing something to the sound. However...what about spending some time to investigate changes that one finds pleasing, and then applying those changes via EQ? Any specific disadvantages/limitations with that?

 
...did you just post a link to a mass buy of audiophile cables in the sound science section to try and gather interest?  Now I am confused.