[appar111]

Well, I finally sold the Pink MZ-E700 I had listed on here. I used Ebay as the auction place. The guy sent the money via Paypal on 2/18/03. I sent the unit out on 2/20/03 with delivery confirmation (USPS) and according to the US Postal Service, it was delivered on 2/22/03. On Monday he files a complaint with Paypal and now the money has been yanked back. He claims that the unit never arrived, even though the del. conf # says the opposite. I sent it to the address specified in the Paypal payment. Turns out its not a confirmed address with Paypal.. and according to their policies, there's nothing they can do if its an unconfirmed address.

So it looks like this guy now has the E700 and will end up getting his money back. Anyone else have a similar situation happen? I'm hoping that he's not lying, and maybe the package got hung up at his local post office (sometimes they leave delivery notice at the person's house, telling them to pick it up at the post office).

Any advice? Cause otherwise, it looks like I'm screwed....

thanks in advance,
appar111

 

[guzzler]

i'm gonna have to say tough break! Its harsh but you should have read the small print, especially when selling anything to people you don't know!

sorry!

g

 

[Andrew Pielet]

Read the small print? What a kind thing to say to someone who just got screwed. Hopefully it wasn't you who did it.

 

[guzzler]

i know its a harsh thing to say, but morals do not stand in the courts of law (not that its worth it!). I'm sure appar is a very nice person and sent it on trust, but unfortunately that counts for nothing in this world! there's no point in going round saying you're sorry for people when you know there's nothing that can be done!

g

 

[scrypt]

Lessons aside, perhaps we should try to help.

Appar111:

If he's doing it to you, he's got to be doing it to others. Does anyone have the link to a year-old news story about a guy who had his Mac stolen and used Mac bulletin boards in tandem with police to track the thief down? Fairly inspirational story, that. The offender turned out to be running a long-term scam that landed him lots of cash at peoples' expense before he was stopped.

I wouldn't stop with paypal. I'd check with eBay, call law enforcement people in the area of the addressee, tell them you've been defrauded, ask what you can do. Asking on bulletin boards like this one was a good idea -- do it often.

If it helps, realize that you're probably fighting for other rooked sellers as well.

 

[ssblood]

The reasons I demand a money order when someone buys something from me but am happy to buy with paypal

Really though, in 99% of instances it is much better to wait an extra 3 days for that money order then to get ripped. If people don't like it tuff cookies

I personally think PayPal could care less when people get ripped off.

 

[chadbang]

Exactly, Scrypt is right. This sounds like a deliberately thought out and executed scam. You should devote as much time as you have to making this guy pay! It's would be a crime (his SUCESSFUL crime) to let him get away with it. Paypal is notoriously LAZY about these things. Keep bugging them (you can't expect jack until about four letters/email to them) and by all means go to ebay (although they don't make scam reporting a peice of cake either). Don't let him get away with it, even if Paypal's "cover our ass" policy pleads dumb. You were robbed, you have your rights. As Scrypt says, a guy like this may be bilking a bunch of people, you'd be doing the right thing to seek justice for all of them and yourself.

What is his ebay ID? I'd like to check his record out myself.

 

[Duncan]

That sucks appar111

That puts people like me in a bad light... I had my credit card stolen 6 months ago, and you yourself will know from our recent transaction, that my address, as a result of cancelling the credit card is now showing as unconfirmed...

Sorry to hear you got ripped off, and I hope that someone somewhere helps you to get things sorted

Duncan

 

[Gergor]

I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience, appar111.

What's the fine print of paypal? Does it mean that the seller will be protected if the address is verified with paypal before the shippment is sent? I never use paypal to sell stuff, so I don't know the process at all. Could someone enlight me please?

 

[braillediver]

How was it shipped? Mail Fraud is a felony?

Don't let it go if you think you were screwed.

 

[vwap]

Quote:

Originally posted by braillediver How was it shipped? Mail Fraud is a felony? Don't let it go if you think you were screwed.

"I sent the unit out on 2/20/03 with delivery confirmation (USPS) and according to the US Postal Service, it was delivered on 2/22/03."

 

[redshifter]

before you go after him, get your ducks in a row.

did he sign for it? can you get that delivery info? if he did not sign for it, did usps leave it at his door?

once you have confirmed the worst, do you have his home address? that may be useful too.

sorry someone tried to rip you off. confirm your suspicions and go after him.

 

[martioz]

This is an extract from one of my e-mails

"Due to increasing incidents of credit card fraud, we have had to join the
growing number of companies who make it a policy not to ship to unconfirmed
Paypal addresses. If you would like to have your address confirmed through
Paypal, simply go into your Paypal account and follow the
instructions. Once your address is confirmed, we will be happy to fill
your order. In the meantime, I have returned your Paypal payment to your
account.

If we may be of further service, please let us know."

I advise to stick to that, sorry for your loss.

 

[Hirsch]

You can either let it go, or go after the guy...or Paypal. Their action is rather surprising. Once the guy has paid, that's it. The only time they will act is in cases of non-delivery...yet you have proof of delivery. Further, Paypal has (or had) a policy of not acting on a complaint until 30 days has passed from the time of a transaction...how did he get them to act so fast? He probably threatened them with a credit card chargeback. However, your proof of delivery from USPS should be good grounds for his credit card company to deny the chargeback, if Paypal exerted the energy to get a copy.

I'd write Paypal a polite note asking them to review their decision. I'd point out that you have proof of delivery from USPS. If the buyer chooses to allege non-delivery, ask them to have him send a copy of the complaint to you, for filing at the Post Office. If you insured the package, non-delivery is covered, so you'll need to file.

If USPS affirms that the parcel was delivered as claimed, then notify Paypal that since you received payment and delivered the item, that removing funds from your account without authorization from you is theft. State that you are filing a complaint for mail fraud against the seller (and do so), and also filing a complaint for mail fraud against Paypal (and so do). By removing money from your account, they are now party to the fraud.

There are situations where you can get stuck. If the package was actually left at the door, and really stolen, the buyer could be genuine. However, how did the complaint get filed so fast? Sometimes mail delivery is slow...the only way he could know when to file is if he was holding the package in his hand. The fast complaint stinks. How did the buyer get Paypal to act so fast? How did he know to file a non-delivery claim so fast?

File a claim for mail fraud and take it to court. If the buyer is in your state, you can use small claims court. Otherwise, find the court that has jurisdiction in your state and file there. It may be easier to file against Paypal than against the buyer. Some types of businesses must maintain a resident agent in a state in order to do business in that state. Paypal may or may not have one. If they do, you'd just need to find out Paypal's resident agent in your state to file a small claims action. Ask them who their resident agent is if you get to the point of threatening them. In MD the information is available through the Department of Assessments and Taxation. You'll have to look at small claims procedures in your state to figure out who to ask.

I'm not a lawyer. Hopefully someone here is, and can correct anything I've said that's wrong.

 

[guzzler]

the problem is that PayPal's UA specifically says that alleged fraud at an unconfirmed address is not their beef! Even if you have the USPS delivery note, the guy you sold to can just say that's not his address, and his complaint would be upheld. PayPal, USPS and yourself have no jurisdiction (sp?) to go to the address you sent to and DEMAND the package returned. So yes, go ahead and speak to all parties involved, but in the end I'm afraid if the worst comes to the worst, you probably won't have a leg to stand on...

edit: agreed though, the speed of reaction to complaint is a lil fishy!

regards

g