[Jeb Listens]

 
Thought I'd post a quick update to my tube journey with the WA7tp and LCD-Xs.......

 
 
Kyle - outstanding write-up    

 
Very thorough and detailed and some really interesting perspectives on all those great tubes.   
 
Also interesting to hear a preference for the Sovteks over the EH-Gold-pins - I think you are in a great position given the price-difference.  I can see where you're coming from with them offering a slightly juicier presentation.   If you ever find yourself wanting a spare-pair you could always give the NOS-Reflektor 6C45s a go too.  There are some varying opinions on whether they are different from the Sovteks but you can often get them as cheaply if not cheaper than the Sovteks as long as you don't mind a bit of a wait since most stock is in Russia or Ukraine.   
 
Definitely do pop back in and update us with your thoughts on the CBS Hytron 5814 - I hope they are everything you want them to be!  If you can post a pic or two of them with your impressions that would be excellent as there are some variations in the construction and labelling of these - though all the ones I have listened to were very good

 

[HiFiGuy528]

Gotcha. I'll definitely use the foam and boxes.

Yeah I keep hearing that. Have you tried any tube rolls with the LCD-Xs? Why exactly is it such a good pairing? @money4me247 mentioned the bass quality and quantity is top notch out of all the LCD series, but is it a smooth and musical sound as well? I'm looking for killer bass but also smoothness in the upper mids and highs. That's why I was thinking LCD-3s over the Xs. What are you guys' impressions of the LCD-X and WA7tp combo? With or without tube rolls? (Hopefully with since now I have 2 sets of upgrade tubes just hanging around in their little boxes)

 
LCD headphones likes POWER, WA7 delivers with ease.  Even on stock tubes, the listening experience is beyond other amps in its class.  We use LCDx pairing in our marketing materials and at trade shows.
 

 

[kyle1010]

LCD headphones likes POWER, WA7 delivers with ease.  Even on stock tubes, the listening experience is beyond other amps in its class.  We use LCDx pairing in our marketing materials and at trade shows.

Lol way ahead from that post dude. I already bought the LCD-Xs and like six sets of upgrade tubes for the WA7tp. I'm having a blast. You were right, this pairing is nuts! I'm ALMOST at ideal SQ for my music type through tube rolls. All that's left is waiting til my CBS Hytrons arrive and possibly grabbing an upgrade cable for the last bit of low end weight and taming of the highs and I'll be set!

 

[money4me247]

great job on the impression write-up kyle!! interesting read

 

[HiFiGuy528]

Lol way ahead from that post dude. I already bought the LCD-Xs and like six sets of upgrade tubes for the WA7tp. I'm having a blast. You were right, this pairing is nuts! I'm ALMOST at ideal SQ for my music type through tube rolls. All that's left is waiting til my CBS Hytrons arrive and possibly grabbing an upgrade cable for the last bit of low end weight and taming of the highs and I'll be set!

 
We recommend the Nordost Heimdall2 Audeze upgrade cable.  Email us if you're interested.  info@wooaudio.com
 
http://www.nordost.com/norse2/heimdall2/heimdall2-headphone-cable.php

 

[kyle1010]

Kyle - outstanding write-up    

Very thorough and detailed and some really interesting perspectives on all those great tubes.   

Also interesting to hear a preference for the Sovteks over the EH-Gold-pins - I think you are in a great position given the price-difference.  I can see where you're coming from with them offering a slightly juicier presentation.   If you ever find yourself wanting a spare-pair you could always give the NOS-Reflektor 6C45s a go too.  There are some varying opinions on whether they are different from the Sovteks but you can often get them as cheaply if not cheaper than the Sovteks as long as you don't mind a bit of a wait since most stock is in Russia or Ukraine.   

Definitely do pop back in and update us with your thoughts on the CBS Hytron 5814 - I hope they are everything you want them to be!  If you can post a pic or two of them with your impressions that would be excellent as there are some variations in the construction and labelling of these - though all the ones I have listened to were very good

I'm back! Ok so it took me a while to reply to this because I had a heart stopping accident with my WA7. I was listening in bed in the dark as usual, and when I tried to adjust the blankets a bit the LCD-Xs cable got caught somewhere and pulled the WA7 off my nightstand onto the floor!! I was in shock and disbelief for at least 10min after it happened. It was late at night so I hoped it was a nightmare, but it was reality. LUCKILY, the 1ft power supply umbilical cord caught the amp a little and softened the hit on the floor. The only damage was the amp cover glass chipped, both Sovtek tubes shattered, and the umbilical cord prongs were bent badly out of shape with their plastic retainer rings cracked. THE HORROR. I called the guys at Woo the next day, prayed, and ordered replacement parts asap. Funny but not funny that this happened the night before my CBS Hytrons showed up. Bummer levels were redlining, but everything's back to normal now like nothing happened. Oh, and I also recieved my Moon Audio Black Dragon Premium headphone cable for the LCD-Xs.

Impression time. First off, I messed up and somehow ordered a pair of CBS Hytron 12AU7s from ebay instead of 5814s. I think I was so excited that I overlooked that detail and clicked buy it now immediately because the pics looked VERY similar to the 5814s in this thread. Red paint, black ladders, "CBS" in a red diamond logo, Made In USA written on them. Their ring getter is a standard round one and not a bent rectangular one though. After I realized what I ordered was wrong I was a little let down but once I got all my replacement WA7 parts I popped them in anyway, why not. WHOA. Exactly as Jeb describes as an upgraded JAN. More clarity top to bottom, slightly wider and deeper soundstage, but still has that juicy/flowing JAN sound signature and bass(albeit VERY slightly less bass quantity..unnoticeable on very bassy tracks though). Instantly my new favorite tube. I think my only gripe about THESE Hytrons is they aren't quite the perfectionists as the Mullards or Siemens with treble intensive stuff like trance music or big dance music buildups. But they make up for that by being smooth, spacious, liquid and enveloping with about 80% of material that I throw at them. This leaves me wondering if I have essentially the same tube as the CH 5814 or if I should keep digging for those. I probably will, but wow are the CH 5814s hard to find. Vacuumtubes.net has em for $20/tube but they're hardly ever in stock. Any suggestions?

Anyway, this copper black dragon premium cable. It does what's advertised(more weight in the lows, smooths out the highs), but not in a pleasing way. It kind of cuts the highs like a low pass filter and sounds forced and unnatural while doing so. The soundstage and seperation are severely compromised with it as well. I only have about 7hrs of break-in on it if you will, but I keep going back to the stock cable which is far more open sounding and natural yet a tiny bit bright for my music. This is my first experience with an upgrade cable so I'm wondering if I should send it back and look elsewhere or if it'll "open up" more with continued use. I have about 20 days left to decide for a return so any advice would be awesome.

 

[kyle1010]

Some pics of my CBS Hytron 12AU7s

 

[Jeb Listens]

I'm back! 

 
 
Kyle - oh man, you've had a time of it - I read your horror story in shock!... that IS the stuff of nightmares.   At least it was only superficial damage and not your more expensive tubes.  WOW!
 
I can't really commend on the CBS 12AU7s as i've never used them.  I have seen them around and they do go for similar sorts of prices.  My feelings is there's a chance they could sound different from the 5814a since those tubes are made to a different military spec and there are some construction differences with the getters as you say.  That's not to say yours sound "worse" - they might well be even better, just different, or sound similar.
 
The only info I could find was here on Tubemaze where he talks a little about how it sounds vs the 5814.  But i'm not sure if this is the tube that you have.  
 
CBS Hytron 12AU7 Black-Plates
 
I'm not totally sure about tubes that are labelled CBS vs CBS-Hytron  vs Hytron.     CBS bought Hytron in the early 50s, and I think they released tubes bearing all those labels.  I think Hytron made all the tubes though.   Like many other  manufacturers CBS may also have relabelled other peoples' tubes too and released them under the CBS label. I think I would be just slightly more suspicious about those that only have the CBS label.  As ever the key will be finding a code on the tube - See if you can find CBS-Hytron's manufacturing code -210 anywhere on the tube.  
 
Don't worry if not, just curious. 
 
 
The CBS-Hytron 5814a is a pain to find! The place I see them most these days is actually here in the Head-Fi classifieds. In any case, the most important thing is that you like them!  Also, check out the WA7tp thread's most recent posts for some other exciting developments! 
 
Jeb.

 

[kyle1010]

Kyle - oh man, you've had a time of it - I read your horror story in shock!... that IS the stuff of nightmares.   At least it was only superficial damage and not your more expensive tubes.  WOW!

I can't really commend on the CBS 12AU7s as i've never used them.  I have seen them around and they do go for similar sorts of prices.  My feelings is there's a chance they could sound different from the 5814a since those tubes are made to a different military spec and there are some construction differences with the getters as you say.  That's not to say yours sound "worse" - they might well be even better, just different, or sound similar.

The only info I could find was here on Tubemaze where he talks a little about how it sounds vs the 5814.  But i'm not sure if this is the tube that you have.  

CBS Hytron 12AU7 Black-Plates

I'm not totally sure about tubes that are labelled CBS vs CBS-Hytron  vs Hytron.     CBS bought Hytron in the early 50s, and I think they released tubes bearing all those labels.  I think Hytron made all the tubes though.   Like many other  manufacturers CBS may also have relabelled other peoples' tubes too and released them under the CBS label. I think I would be just slightly more suspicious about those that only have the CBS label.  As ever the key will be finding a code on the tube - See if you can find CBS-Hytron's manufacturing code -210 anywhere on the tube.  

Don't worry if not, just curious. 


The CBS-Hytron 5814a is a pain to find! The place I see them most these days is actually here in the Head-Fi classifieds. In any case, the most important thing is that you like them!  Also, check out the WA7tp thread's most recent posts for some other exciting developments! 

Jeb.

FINALLY got a set of CH 5814a tubes a few weeks ago. Definitely a difference compared to the CH 12AU7 but not by TOO much. The 5814a version has way better bass thump and extension while also being more 3D as you described. Love at first track. It's funny cuz now I totally see what you mean about it worrying you that they're so limited. I put about 6hrs on them and swapped them out. I feel like they're my special occasion tubes now since they're so freakin drool worthy but have a limited lifespan So now I'm on the hunt for a second(and maybe 3rd) pair of them to put me at ease about using my current ones more lol. I have one spare that looks great, and I'm eyeing another single one to purchase, but I'm not sure if it'll sound ok to mix and match them. The pair that I use now are from two different sellers but look nearly identical and sound unbelievable. The one I'm looking to buy to go with my spare has slightly different labeling, but basically identical construction. Should I go for it? I think it'll work but the slight variation in labeling worries me a little.

 

[Jeb Listens]

Hi Kyle - good tube hunting.  The CBS-Hytron 5814a are really nice!
 
Regarding differences - it's very hard to say.  I only have two different styles.  The first is a 1955 5814 (white labelling just "Hytron"), the second, red labelling 1953 "CBS-Hytron" 5814A  Besides the label they really do look almost identical in construction with perhaps just micro-differences in the size of the bent-rectangular getter and the other components on top of the upper-mica. 
 
I do feel there are some subtle differences in the sound and have also seen other people talking about differences over the years the CBS-Hytron 5814 was manufactured (see here).  I also understand that the fact that one is a 5814 and one a 5814a could indicate manufacturing variations.  Given my gut feeling that they sound a little different I probably wouldn't mix these together.  
 
If all the CBS-Hytron tubes you are looking at are 5814a with roughly the same style getter I personally wouldn't worry about mixing.   
 
 As you can see from pics below both varieties have the upward angled getter that is bent over towards the top.  I believe there is also a version where the getter is flat and straight horizontal - also possibly "D" shaped".  I have seen more accounts of these sounding quite different so if I was trying to collect a set I'd probably avoid mixing those in with the upward-angled bent getter 5814a.  
 
Other than that, if you've decided that the CBS-Hytron 5814a is the "one", then due to its relative rarity it's not a bad idea to just grab what you can, when you can and - if necessary - worry about fine-tuning the pairings later on if you discover anything sounds a little funky vs the pair you already have.
 
If you do go ahead - keep us posted on what you discover.  It'll be useful for future records! 
 
 
 
 

 

[fotomeow]

Great write up Kyle: so well organized with skillful pictures and salient points.
My 2 cents: I listened to both the WA7s and the WA8 with same headfones (the HPs that Woo provided) at the San Francisco Head-Fi meet.
IMO they sounded very similar from both a DAC and amp point of view.

The WA7s with the extra tube power supply sounded warmer with a thicker tube overall sound, as to be expected, than the solid state PSU.
But I preferred the SS PSU, the tube PSU was just too warm and soft for the wide variety of music that I listen to.

But if some people believe that the WA7 DAC is less-than-preferred, so be it...
Just makes them cheaper on the used market for guys like me 8)

 

[Jeb Listens]

Hi there @fotomeow - interesting stuff!  was there any information there at the Woo stand about the DAC that is used in the WA8?

 

[fotomeow]

Hi there @fotomeow
 - interesting stuff!  was there any information there at the Woo stand about the DAC that is used in the WA8?

Jeb, I responded to your post on the dedicated WA8 thread here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/736200/woo-audio-wa-8/75#post_11979894

(So I don't hijack this WA7 thread)

 

[kyle1010]

Great write up Kyle: so well organized with skillful pictures and salient points.
My 2 cents: I listened to both the WA7s and the WA8 with same headfones (the HPs that Woo provided) at the San Francisco Head-Fi meet.
IMO they sounded very similar from both a DAC and amp point of view.

The WA7s with the extra tube power supply sounded warmer with a thicker tube overall sound, as to be expected, than the solid state PSU.
But I preferred the SS PSU, the tube PSU was just too warm and soft for the wide variety of music that I listen to.

But if some people believe that the WA7 DAC is less-than-preferred, so be it...
Just makes them cheaper on the used market for guys like me 8)

Thanks! I listened to the WA8 in Woo's room at T.H.E. Show Newport in May. It sounds pretty lovely for a portable! 3 tube mode was super lush and tubey sounding, but when the Woo guy placed it in the 2 tube mode for me, it definitely stayed smooth but nowhere near as warm and soft. Does that new gold production model do that?
 
Mine and Jeb's WA7s with the tube supply can be made to sound like multiple different amps through tube rolls. From warm and tubey, to flat and accurate, to airy and spacious. It's pretty wild how much you can get the sound to change to your preferences. This thread is a gold mine of info for that stuff. I hear the SS PSU has a little more bass body which I'm ALL about, but the versatility of tube rolls has me hooked on the tube PSU. But yeah, exactly, I got my WA7 used from a guy here on head-fi for a great deal! Awesome buying experience.
 
I'll probably get a Rega DAC like Jeb's eventually, if I can find it a happy home in or around my nightstand where the WA7 looks so perfect. But the WA7 DAC is awesome, especially with the right ps tubes..oh man. Anyway, check back in with us when you get some new gear!

 

[Jeb Listens]

Nice one Kyle -  DAC-wise might also be worth checking out the new Schiit Multibit Bifrost -  great price, R2R, small form factor & there might be some available in black to match your night-stand aesthetic