MD1032
Headphoneus Supremus
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2003
- Posts
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- 20
I've been neglecting to post this!
Greetings, everyone. Since I have a bunch of Grados on my hands due to Christmas, I figured I would write a short review comparing the models. Included is:
SR60
SR60i
SR80
MS1
HF1
HF2 (reference)
Now, I did have a pair of SR-80i’s, but I ended up sending them back to the seller for a refund because they were in terrible condition when I got them and I didn’t expect that. The short and sweet conclusion about them (you can look up the thread that I started which compared them to the 60i’s and 80’s) is that they sound worse than all the other low-end Grados with the now-stock comfy pads, but better than all the other low-end Grados with bowls!
Some of the listening material:
“Allelujah! Laudamus Te” – Fennell and DWS
“The Real Me” and “The Rock” from The Who’s Quadrophenia
“Tightrope” – SRV
vocab:
balance – I use this to describe the overall ratio of highs, mids, and lows, and how close they are to my ideal (tonal balance, if you will), not the deviation between the drivers. Everyone has a preference here. My preferences are largely based on my perception of the music reproduction and how good it sounds overall and not necessarily how close it sounds to real life. I’m a hardcore musician and I have my preferences just like any musician for balance, and no two musicians will ever agree, I can guarantee it.
First up, let’s compare the SR-60 to the SR-60i. The 80i was a real upgrade over the 80’s when I compared them, and if I was going to buy an 80, it would without a doubt be the 80i’s, but the 60’s and 60i’s are different because they were both “born” with comfy pads whereas with the 80’s, I always ran them with flats, what they originally came with and were replaced with bowls for a long while before the 80i’s came out. Anyway, listening to our first track, I immediately, and surprisingly, noticed a distinct improvement in the brass instrument reproduction with the 60i’s. These ‘phones are definitely quite similar, more similar than the 80’s and 80i’s are, however, the SR-60i’s are brighter, no doubt. This manifests itself in different ways. The clarinets sound far better on the SR-60’s with their darker sound, and the brass sound far better on the SR-60i’s, which play out the harmonics a lot more. Nothing too conclusive yet (really, nothing impressive, to be honest…you need higher-end Grados to do classical), so let’s turn to something Grados are good at: rock. (changes track) The differences are much more obvious now. The 60i’s have a little more treble, but it’s definitely a lot smoother than the 60’s is. The different emphases in these ‘phones really lend them different characters. Vocals are better on the 60i’s, but guitars are better on the 60’s (crazy). I’m also surprised that the 60i’s definitely have far better instrumental separation than the 60’s and I would say the 60i’s are cleaner overall. John Grado basically just figured out a way to compensate very well for the comfy pads and really did a bang-up job with these, so if you want a darker sound, go for the 60’s, brighter, go for the 60i’s, but IMO the 60i’s have much better highs and are much clearer and cleaner overall although certain things have more crunch on the 60’s, and the 60’s have slightly better bass (borderline minutely). If I could keep one, it would be the 60i’s by the skin of their teeth because I strongly prefer a darker sound but the clarity in the 60i is more than worth it. The SR-60i’s might be the most well-balanced stock low-end Grado John has ever sold and I am really impressed with the “improvement” in the high end which makes them more similar to the higher-end prestige of old.
Moving to the SR-80’s, it’s really hard to go to these after hearing the 60i’s and 60’s. The highs on the SR-80’s are well known to be on the bright side. I have just never liked the way these headphones sounded with the bowl pads, and I don’t think John Grado quite did either because the 80i’s fixed literally everything wrong with these headphones when I listened to them. Now, the 80’s originally came with flat pads, so I’m going to pop off the bowls and just put the flats right on and henceforth call these the SR-80f’s to refer to the SR-80’s with flats, because they sound like a different animal with flats. The differences between the 60i’s and 80f’s is significant. The SR-80f’s sacrifice a lot in the high end by putting on the flats but more than make up for it with ridiculous bass that really embarrasses the 60i’s. Drums have way, way more punch, guitars are brought forward and are much more articulated and crunchy, and the bass digs deep without a problem. If you’re a basshead, this sound is absolutely spectacular. But again, the SR-60i’s really stomp the SR-80f’s in the treble region, with way, way more detail. Classical sounds so much better on the SR-60i’s than the 80f’s...not that the 80f’s don’t sound good, but by putting on flats, you’ve turned them into rock and blues monsters and given away a lot in other genres. To get the classical gratification back, you have to put the bowls back on, but I think you’ll find they’re still slightly too bright. I was dumbfounded by this comparison. The SR-80 is a huge compromise when compared to other Grados and I won’t be able to recommend it as easily anymore, but I’ll say that they rock with flats and having all that extra bass and gigantic increase in punch can really be fun with the flats.
Moving along, let’s get the MS-1’s out. Now, these and every other MS-1 I’ve ever seen and heard have bowls. I’m aware that these apparently come with comfies but I can’t imagine that would be good for these ‘phones. These are actually really similar to the SR-80’s, so I’m going to put the bowls back on the 80’s and compare these three here. Well, the MS-1’s basically sound like an SR-80 with the highs knocked down somewhat. I’m actually unimpressed with the MS-1’s overall sonic signature compared to the SR-80 after watching the hype for years. I’ve never compared these two before and it’s been years since I’ve heard the MS-1. Is it better than the SR-80? It’s debatable, despite everyone on Head-Fi flipping out about how the MS-1’s are so much better than the two lower-end guys for the price. People who like a brighter sound might prefer the SR-80 actually. The difference in price between these two is $0.00, and frankly, you can hear this because the MS-1 really does share a lot with the SR-80, sound-wise. But anyway, let me just give up my opinion: I prefer the MS-1. I think it really is an improvement, bringing up the bass slightly and knocking down the treble slightly for a slightly (15% maybe) more balanced sound. I’m glad I can finally put this one to rest, finally, because up until now I’ve recommended the SR-80’s and MS-1’s equally.
Allow me to come full circle here and compare the SR-60i’s to the MS-1’s. I’m really just not hearing all that much to begin with. The SR-60i’s compare really well for being $20 less. The MS-1’s have just slightly strident highs by comparison, I’ll admit… personally, if I may throw this out there, I’m willing to bet that the MS-1i’s would fix this given the trend with the SR-80 to SR-80i. The MS-1’s definitely separate better…this is where the difference between the comfies and the bowls, heck the difference between lower-end and higher-end Grados starts to show itself… in the fine details of instrumental articulation. Is the balance better on the SR-60i’s? Maybe. It depends on your preference. The MS-1’s can sound a little too bright on some tracks but when you put on a classical track, the MS-1’s can really, really sing and reproduce certain instruments very accurately, tonally. The fine detail is improved on the MS-1’s compared to all of the other ‘phones in this review, while still maintaining and manageable amount of treble, but it can be strident in some rare scenarios. Frankly, I don’t have a preference here, at all. The long and short of it is that on some tracks, the SR-60i’s sound muffled, other times, the MS-1’s sound a little too bright. Both will continue to get my recommendation but I’d say the MS-1 is a little more classical instrument-minded than the SR-60i, as the SR-60i does have a little more of an in-your-face lower register and more bass.
Why not? Let’s whip out the old HF-1’s and compare them to the MS-1’s. I put the stock bowls back on (I used to use them with flats because the bass is awesome with flats). So, I put the HF-1’s in and laid down the first track listed above. The difference, my friends, is astounding. The HF-1 is such a more even headphone in the treble than all of the lower-end Grados. It reproduces everything more accurately, more well-separated than the MS-1’s, with more detail, more impact, and better everything. It’s not a battle… it’s a slaughter, frankly, but I will say that the HF-1 is more similar in sound signature to the MS-1 than any other Grado I’ve directly compared it to, and this surprised me. But yeah, for the $200 these sold for, jeez, they are a ridiculous steal.
HF-1 and HF-2. The HF-2 takes the HF-1 sound and really perfects it. Highs have oodles more detail and are much less strident. Bass is way increased (almost to a fault at times) and made much more impactful. Instrumental separation is dramatically increased. These are just really, really excellent headphones, and there’s no real comparison to anything else in this review, but I'm including it because I can.
So, what has John Grado “improved” in the “i” series? Turns out, he really improved a lot. The SR-60i is a monster of an entry-level can, and compares well even against the MS-1. I really wish I had been able to include the SR-80i in this longer comparison but I at least wrote down my impressions and really, the SR-80 is the one of this whole group of headphones that just seems out of place… it’s a weird compromise and doesn’t have the level of refinement that the other ‘phones do in this price range. My final order of preference in terms of sound is:
1)MS1 and SR60i
2)SR60
3)SR80 with flat pads
4)SR80 stock (bowls)
Most importantly, if you can get a hold of the HF-1’s at a good price, they’re a phenomenal value that basically combine all of the best features of the prestige series and refine on top of that. I remember comparing mine to a guy’s recabled and woodied $500 SR-225 at an NYC meet and they still killed the SR-225 without a sweat (he agreed). The HF series is a unique series that sounds excellent and shares many of the sonic adjustments used in the MS series.
Now here is a very important conclusion: I would say that the Grado headphones between the SR-60i and SR-225i are now meaningless. The SR-60i might be too much of an improvement, but I’m not complaining, because it makes my life easier. The SR-80i’s (and I’m assuming the 125i’s) now suck stock because Grado is including the comfy pads, and they sound way better with the bowls. The MS-1i’s, same deal. There is just no way that the SR-80i’s or MS-1i’s are a worthwhile investment over the 60i’s when they cost a net $50 more because you need the right pads. Are they better? Most certainly, but the price to performance ratio decreases substantially until you hit the next sweet spot at the SR-225i’s. But like I said, this makes my life easier because the 60i’s are already easier to recommend because they come with Grado’s most comfortable pads and sound best with them.
Oh, and another thing, in case you didn't catch this: Changing the pads on your Grado headphone can completely change the sound and make more of a difference than switching up or down to a different model.
Hope this review helped!
Greetings, everyone. Since I have a bunch of Grados on my hands due to Christmas, I figured I would write a short review comparing the models. Included is:
SR60
SR60i
SR80
MS1
HF1
HF2 (reference)
Now, I did have a pair of SR-80i’s, but I ended up sending them back to the seller for a refund because they were in terrible condition when I got them and I didn’t expect that. The short and sweet conclusion about them (you can look up the thread that I started which compared them to the 60i’s and 80’s) is that they sound worse than all the other low-end Grados with the now-stock comfy pads, but better than all the other low-end Grados with bowls!
Some of the listening material:
“Allelujah! Laudamus Te” – Fennell and DWS
“The Real Me” and “The Rock” from The Who’s Quadrophenia
“Tightrope” – SRV
vocab:
balance – I use this to describe the overall ratio of highs, mids, and lows, and how close they are to my ideal (tonal balance, if you will), not the deviation between the drivers. Everyone has a preference here. My preferences are largely based on my perception of the music reproduction and how good it sounds overall and not necessarily how close it sounds to real life. I’m a hardcore musician and I have my preferences just like any musician for balance, and no two musicians will ever agree, I can guarantee it.
First up, let’s compare the SR-60 to the SR-60i. The 80i was a real upgrade over the 80’s when I compared them, and if I was going to buy an 80, it would without a doubt be the 80i’s, but the 60’s and 60i’s are different because they were both “born” with comfy pads whereas with the 80’s, I always ran them with flats, what they originally came with and were replaced with bowls for a long while before the 80i’s came out. Anyway, listening to our first track, I immediately, and surprisingly, noticed a distinct improvement in the brass instrument reproduction with the 60i’s. These ‘phones are definitely quite similar, more similar than the 80’s and 80i’s are, however, the SR-60i’s are brighter, no doubt. This manifests itself in different ways. The clarinets sound far better on the SR-60’s with their darker sound, and the brass sound far better on the SR-60i’s, which play out the harmonics a lot more. Nothing too conclusive yet (really, nothing impressive, to be honest…you need higher-end Grados to do classical), so let’s turn to something Grados are good at: rock. (changes track) The differences are much more obvious now. The 60i’s have a little more treble, but it’s definitely a lot smoother than the 60’s is. The different emphases in these ‘phones really lend them different characters. Vocals are better on the 60i’s, but guitars are better on the 60’s (crazy). I’m also surprised that the 60i’s definitely have far better instrumental separation than the 60’s and I would say the 60i’s are cleaner overall. John Grado basically just figured out a way to compensate very well for the comfy pads and really did a bang-up job with these, so if you want a darker sound, go for the 60’s, brighter, go for the 60i’s, but IMO the 60i’s have much better highs and are much clearer and cleaner overall although certain things have more crunch on the 60’s, and the 60’s have slightly better bass (borderline minutely). If I could keep one, it would be the 60i’s by the skin of their teeth because I strongly prefer a darker sound but the clarity in the 60i is more than worth it. The SR-60i’s might be the most well-balanced stock low-end Grado John has ever sold and I am really impressed with the “improvement” in the high end which makes them more similar to the higher-end prestige of old.
Moving to the SR-80’s, it’s really hard to go to these after hearing the 60i’s and 60’s. The highs on the SR-80’s are well known to be on the bright side. I have just never liked the way these headphones sounded with the bowl pads, and I don’t think John Grado quite did either because the 80i’s fixed literally everything wrong with these headphones when I listened to them. Now, the 80’s originally came with flat pads, so I’m going to pop off the bowls and just put the flats right on and henceforth call these the SR-80f’s to refer to the SR-80’s with flats, because they sound like a different animal with flats. The differences between the 60i’s and 80f’s is significant. The SR-80f’s sacrifice a lot in the high end by putting on the flats but more than make up for it with ridiculous bass that really embarrasses the 60i’s. Drums have way, way more punch, guitars are brought forward and are much more articulated and crunchy, and the bass digs deep without a problem. If you’re a basshead, this sound is absolutely spectacular. But again, the SR-60i’s really stomp the SR-80f’s in the treble region, with way, way more detail. Classical sounds so much better on the SR-60i’s than the 80f’s...not that the 80f’s don’t sound good, but by putting on flats, you’ve turned them into rock and blues monsters and given away a lot in other genres. To get the classical gratification back, you have to put the bowls back on, but I think you’ll find they’re still slightly too bright. I was dumbfounded by this comparison. The SR-80 is a huge compromise when compared to other Grados and I won’t be able to recommend it as easily anymore, but I’ll say that they rock with flats and having all that extra bass and gigantic increase in punch can really be fun with the flats.
Moving along, let’s get the MS-1’s out. Now, these and every other MS-1 I’ve ever seen and heard have bowls. I’m aware that these apparently come with comfies but I can’t imagine that would be good for these ‘phones. These are actually really similar to the SR-80’s, so I’m going to put the bowls back on the 80’s and compare these three here. Well, the MS-1’s basically sound like an SR-80 with the highs knocked down somewhat. I’m actually unimpressed with the MS-1’s overall sonic signature compared to the SR-80 after watching the hype for years. I’ve never compared these two before and it’s been years since I’ve heard the MS-1. Is it better than the SR-80? It’s debatable, despite everyone on Head-Fi flipping out about how the MS-1’s are so much better than the two lower-end guys for the price. People who like a brighter sound might prefer the SR-80 actually. The difference in price between these two is $0.00, and frankly, you can hear this because the MS-1 really does share a lot with the SR-80, sound-wise. But anyway, let me just give up my opinion: I prefer the MS-1. I think it really is an improvement, bringing up the bass slightly and knocking down the treble slightly for a slightly (15% maybe) more balanced sound. I’m glad I can finally put this one to rest, finally, because up until now I’ve recommended the SR-80’s and MS-1’s equally.
Allow me to come full circle here and compare the SR-60i’s to the MS-1’s. I’m really just not hearing all that much to begin with. The SR-60i’s compare really well for being $20 less. The MS-1’s have just slightly strident highs by comparison, I’ll admit… personally, if I may throw this out there, I’m willing to bet that the MS-1i’s would fix this given the trend with the SR-80 to SR-80i. The MS-1’s definitely separate better…this is where the difference between the comfies and the bowls, heck the difference between lower-end and higher-end Grados starts to show itself… in the fine details of instrumental articulation. Is the balance better on the SR-60i’s? Maybe. It depends on your preference. The MS-1’s can sound a little too bright on some tracks but when you put on a classical track, the MS-1’s can really, really sing and reproduce certain instruments very accurately, tonally. The fine detail is improved on the MS-1’s compared to all of the other ‘phones in this review, while still maintaining and manageable amount of treble, but it can be strident in some rare scenarios. Frankly, I don’t have a preference here, at all. The long and short of it is that on some tracks, the SR-60i’s sound muffled, other times, the MS-1’s sound a little too bright. Both will continue to get my recommendation but I’d say the MS-1 is a little more classical instrument-minded than the SR-60i, as the SR-60i does have a little more of an in-your-face lower register and more bass.
Why not? Let’s whip out the old HF-1’s and compare them to the MS-1’s. I put the stock bowls back on (I used to use them with flats because the bass is awesome with flats). So, I put the HF-1’s in and laid down the first track listed above. The difference, my friends, is astounding. The HF-1 is such a more even headphone in the treble than all of the lower-end Grados. It reproduces everything more accurately, more well-separated than the MS-1’s, with more detail, more impact, and better everything. It’s not a battle… it’s a slaughter, frankly, but I will say that the HF-1 is more similar in sound signature to the MS-1 than any other Grado I’ve directly compared it to, and this surprised me. But yeah, for the $200 these sold for, jeez, they are a ridiculous steal.
HF-1 and HF-2. The HF-2 takes the HF-1 sound and really perfects it. Highs have oodles more detail and are much less strident. Bass is way increased (almost to a fault at times) and made much more impactful. Instrumental separation is dramatically increased. These are just really, really excellent headphones, and there’s no real comparison to anything else in this review, but I'm including it because I can.
So, what has John Grado “improved” in the “i” series? Turns out, he really improved a lot. The SR-60i is a monster of an entry-level can, and compares well even against the MS-1. I really wish I had been able to include the SR-80i in this longer comparison but I at least wrote down my impressions and really, the SR-80 is the one of this whole group of headphones that just seems out of place… it’s a weird compromise and doesn’t have the level of refinement that the other ‘phones do in this price range. My final order of preference in terms of sound is:
1)MS1 and SR60i
2)SR60
3)SR80 with flat pads
4)SR80 stock (bowls)
Most importantly, if you can get a hold of the HF-1’s at a good price, they’re a phenomenal value that basically combine all of the best features of the prestige series and refine on top of that. I remember comparing mine to a guy’s recabled and woodied $500 SR-225 at an NYC meet and they still killed the SR-225 without a sweat (he agreed). The HF series is a unique series that sounds excellent and shares many of the sonic adjustments used in the MS series.
Now here is a very important conclusion: I would say that the Grado headphones between the SR-60i and SR-225i are now meaningless. The SR-60i might be too much of an improvement, but I’m not complaining, because it makes my life easier. The SR-80i’s (and I’m assuming the 125i’s) now suck stock because Grado is including the comfy pads, and they sound way better with the bowls. The MS-1i’s, same deal. There is just no way that the SR-80i’s or MS-1i’s are a worthwhile investment over the 60i’s when they cost a net $50 more because you need the right pads. Are they better? Most certainly, but the price to performance ratio decreases substantially until you hit the next sweet spot at the SR-225i’s. But like I said, this makes my life easier because the 60i’s are already easier to recommend because they come with Grado’s most comfortable pads and sound best with them.
Oh, and another thing, in case you didn't catch this: Changing the pads on your Grado headphone can completely change the sound and make more of a difference than switching up or down to a different model.
Hope this review helped!
