[Jobbing]

Okay, no worries.  Thanks for the update. :bigsmile_face:

A few people have contacted Estron about the Super BaX and have signed up. Because the Super BaX is an expensive cable and time consuming to make Estron intended to get some more testing done before further production, that's why they were not so open about the sign up list yet. If you're interested in signing up for the Super BaX at an estimated price of €350 (converted ~USD $400) + tax/shipping for the limited edition make sure to contact Estron.

 

[moedawg140]

A few people have contacted Estron about the Super BaX and have signed up. Because the Super BaX is an expensive cable and time consuming to make Estron intended to get some more testing done before further production, that's why they were not so open about the sign up list yet. If you're interested in signing up for the Super BaX at an estimated price of €350 (converted ~USD $400) + tax/shipping for the limited edition make sure to contact Estron.

 
*Gulp*...nah, just kidding...kinda.  Now we are approaching boutique cable prices - personally not my style.  I understand why someone would want to purchase a limited edition cable, but I have a few reasons why I wouldn't want to purchase the cable - especially right off the bat:
 

• Technically speaking, for all intents and purposes, the elemental composition will not change from the current/regular BaX cable, meaning it will remain SPC.
• Currently, there are no choices for other elements (e.g. Copper [Litz], Silver [Litz]).
• Have to purchase first before being able to listen, meaning you do not know if the Super BaX really is "Super" for your specific application (can not demo first).
• I know of at least one company (Ted Allen/headphonelougne.com) that will allow you to demo his cables before purchasing them.
• Other competent cable companies offer more elemental choices regarding cables for around half of the price of the Super BaX.

 
With this said, I am interested how the testers/limited edition purchasers think about the Super BaX, especially compared to other elemental cables (Copper Litz, Silver Litz, Silver/Gold, etcetera) - I just will not be the one initially (probably not at all for $400 unless the price significantly lowers in the future) to try it out for myself or basically be playing Russian Roulette.

 

[just-a-test]

Isn't the Super Bax just two regular Bax in one cable? (basically)
As far as I can tell it's four strains before and two after the Y-split.

 

[Earbones]

$400 is not approaching boutique cable prices, it is firmly there.

I guess as someone who's not experienced a BaX cable, but only read about them... I think it's completely insane. No offense to Linum, but as of right now it may be reasonably stated that they make a very comfortable and uniquely-sized IEM cable with questionable audio performance. About half the reviews I've read have stated as much... While everyone raves about the comfort, it often seems the Linum is inferior SQ-wise to the OEM cable. I honestly can't remember the last time I've seen an aftermarket cable get so many middling to poor reviews in the SQ department. Again, I don't mean to say that nobody likes them, there are definitely people who thought they added a great deal to the sound... But just as many who thought it added nothing, or detracted from the sound. It does appear to be around 50/50... I'll read a glowing review of the sound quality, then a poor one. It's worth noting that cables in general, whether they are good or bad, lend small changes to sound. As such, the reviewing of cables is inerently rife with people hearing what they want to hear. I'm definitely not calling anyone out, I'm just addressing the fact that this makes for an atmosphere where it's not difficult for a cable to amass a firm majority of glowing reviews. Just check out the reviews on the majority of aftermarket IEM and headphone cables. You'll see a pattern. 50/50 points to something being off.

Bottom line, string would also probably make a very comfortable IEM cable, but if the sound is not there, what's the point?

I didn't want to pony up the relative bargain-basement (for an aftermarket audiophile cable) price of $50 for the regular BaX, because I'd read enough reviews to reasonably be concerned that it would negatively affect the sound of my IEMs... The idea of ponying up $400 for a revised version that *may* sound better is ludicrous. Not when I could save money by going with very pricy yet proven performers like Toxic, Moon, etc...

I understand some may say that the $400 represents Linum's production costs with a made-to-order cable... That makes sense only if Linum sold, say, bicycle parts, but the owner was an audiophile, and wanted to start producing a cable design he had... Blah blah. A situation where retooling and reorganization of the production and materials purchasing dynamic was called for. But Linum makes IEM cables. They are currently selling four models. These preproduction units should not represent a significant stretching of resources in any capacity. I don't work there, so I can't make any informed accusations, but as an outsider looking in, it seems an awful lot like Linum is charging people an exorbitant sum to act as beta-testers. Some may be fine with that... People are free to spend their money however they like...

 

[moedawg140]

$400 is not approaching boutique cable prices, it is firmly there.

I guess as someone who's not experienced a BaX cable, but only read about them... I think it's completely insane. No offense to Linum, as I'm sure they will soon make their "breakthrough" product, but as of right now it can be reasonably stated that they make a very comfortable and uniquely-sized cable with questionable audio performance. Many of the reviews I've read have stated as much... While everyone raves about the comfort, it often seems the Linum is inferior SQ-wise to the OEM cable. I honestly can't remember the last time I've seen an aftermarket cable get so many middling to poor reviews in the SQ department. I don't mean to say that nobody likes them, there are definitely reviews where people thought they added a great deal to the sound... But just as many who thought it added nothing, or detracted from the sound. It looks to be around 50/50... I'll read a glowing review, then a poor one. It's worth noting that cables in general, whether they are good or bad, lend small changes to sound. As such, the reviewing of cables is inerently rife with people hearing what they want to hear. I'm definitely not calling anyone out, I'm just stating that this makes for an atmosphere where it's not difficult for a cable to procure a firm majority of glowing reviews. 50/50 points to something being amiss.

Bottom line, string would also probably make a very comfortable IEM cable, but if the sound is not there, what's the point?

I didn't want to pony up $50 for the regular BaX, because I'd read enough reviews to reasonably be concerned that it would negatively affect the sound of my IEMs... The idea of ponying up $400 for a revised version that *may* sound better is ludicrous. Not when I could save money by going with very pricy yet proven performers like Toxic, Moon, et al...

I understand some may say that the $400 represents Linum's production costs with a made-to-order cable... That makes sense only if Linum sold, say, bicycle parts, but the owner was an audiophile, and wanted to start producing a cable design he had... Blah blah. A situation where retooling and reorganization of the production and materials purchasing dynamic was called for. But Linum makes headphone cables. They are currently selling four models. These preproduction units represent no significant stretch of resources in any capacity. Not working there, I can't make any informed accusations, but as an outsider looking in, it seems an awful lot like they are charging people an exorbitant sum to act as beta-testers. Some may be fine with that... People are free to spend their money however they like...

 
I agree, $400 is a boutique price, and I would not want to pay that much for a cable unless it was cooking/preparing nourishment for me as welI.  I mainly stated 'approaching' because there are a plethora of cables that do cost a lot more than $400 such as the Whiplash modular system cables (up to $1000 +, such as the one I reviewed), Uber and Uber Too cables ($1,200-$1,300 respectively), and others.
 
I have experienced the BaX cable firsthand (actually I am listening to it with the Supra as I type), and in my opinion, the BaX and SE846 (spent $82 for the BaX) is a terrible combination - no sugar-coating my feelings regarding that combination.  I explain more in detail with my review of the BaX and SE846 combination.  The BaX does fair better with the Supra though, as I wanted a warmer cable with the Supra.  The BaX doesn't synergize as well with the Legend R in my opinion because I want the Legend R to be as detail retrieving as it can be, and I feel the BaX holds it back in that regard.
 
With this said, anyone can choose for themselves which cable sounds the best for them, is best for their particular application - and more power to those that do decide to purchase the Super BaX - as I still want to find out how it sounds compared to the regular BaX and other cables, but do not feel like being the ultimate tester (spending double the price as other competent cables) or even worse, a customer that Estron knows will spend any price necessary to have the "limited edition" Super BaX cable and will charge whatever price they want, because there are at least 100 customers that will spend the money for "exclusivity" and the sui generis nature of the situation.  

 

[twister6]

@Earbones : so if I understand correctly, you are drawing a conclusion based on other people's opinions about Linux BAX since you don't have this cable, and you are upset about speculative pricing and unconfirmed design/performance of Super BAX cable?
 
As I stated in my Linum BAX review (http://www.head-fi.org/t/756037/review-of-linum-bax-mmcx-cable-w-lots-of-pics-and-comparison) it's not a magic switch that's going to improve a sound of every IEM.  Instead, it will be a part of the synergy equation between your IEM and your DAP, and the level of improvement will vary.
 
Don't want to start yet another cable argument, especially since you don't have Linux BAX to draw your own conclusion about it's performance , but let's just wait until Super BAX is released, when we have confirmed pricing and design details, and when we actually going to get some hands'on comparison and impressions.

 

[twister6]

   
I agree, $400 is a boutique price, and I would not want to pay that much for a cable unless it was cooking/preparing nourishment for me as welI.  I mainly stated 'approaching' because there are a plethora of cables that do cost a lot more than $400 such as the Whiplash modular system cables (up to $1000 +, such as the one I reviewed), Uber and Uber Too cables ($1,200-$1,300 respectively), and others.
 

 
Love that Whiplash modular system

 

 

[Q Mass]

A few people have contacted Estron about the Super BaX and have signed up. Because the Super BaX is an expensive cable and time consuming to make Estron intended to get some more testing done before further production, that's why they were not so open about the sign up list yet. If you're interested in signing up for the Super BaX at an estimated price of €350 (converted ~USD $400) + tax/shipping for the limited edition make sure to contact Estron.

 
Jeebus!
I hope the price is estimated to be somewhere between 90 Euro and 350 (preferably somewhere below 100!
 
Seriously, I love my Linum cable, but I wrestled with spending 50 quid on it!.

 

[moedawg140]

   
Love that Whiplash modular system
 
 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

 

 
The cable is beautiful, I can not take anything away from that.  However, as I have stated in the SE846 thread, I will never purchase a Whiplash Audio cable, not just because of the exorbitant price (over $1,000 for the 8 strand), but more importantly because of how I was treated (publicly and privately) after writing my review of the Whiplash Audio Modular System Cable by Craig of Whiplash Audio.

 

[Earbones]

I agree, $400 is a boutique price, and I would not want to pay that much for a cable unless it was cooking/preparing nourishment for me as welI.  I mainly stated 'approaching' because there are a plethora of cables that do cost a lot more than $400 such as the Whiplash modular system cables (up to $1000 +, such as the one I reviewed), Uber and Uber Too cables ($1,200-$1,300 respectively), and others.

I have experienced the BaX cable firsthand (actually I am listening to it with the Supra as I type), and in my opinion, the BaX and SE846 (spent $82 for the BaX) is a terrible combination - no sugar-coating my feelings regarding that combination.  I explain more in detail with my review of the BaX and SE846 combination.  The BaX does fair better with the Supra though, as I wanted a warmer cable with the Supra.  The BaX doesn't synergize as well with the Legend R in my opinion because I want the Legend R to be as detail retrieving as it can be, and I feel the BaX holds it back in that regard.

With this said, anyone can choose for themselves which cable sounds the best for them, is best for their particular application - and more power to those that do decide to purchase the Super BaX - as I still want to find out how it sounds compared to the regular BaX and other cables, but do not feel like being the ultimate tester (spending double the price as other competent cables) or even worse, a customer that Estron knows will spend any price necessary to have the "limited edition" Super BaX cable and will charge whatever price they want, because there are at least 100 customers that will spend the money for "exclusivity" and the sui generis nature of the situation.  

Agreed on all points.

It wasn't my intention to state that $400 represented the top-tier of boutique cables, just that if one has $400 to spend (retail), there are defintely well-known and celebrated boutique options at that price-point... Kind of like saying $250k will buy you a fast sports car. Sure, you're nowhere near the upper echelon, but definitely surrounded by options.

You've also summed up perhaps the ultimate reasoning behind the Super BaX's price more plainly than I did... I kind of danced around what is probably the most plausible (albeit cynical, but hey, cynicism is usually right) methodology Linum used to arrive at the price... People will pay it. I imgaine they'll sell out quickly, too. Exclusivity is powerful sales magic.

 

[Earbones]

@Earbones
: so if I understand correctly, you are drawing a conclusion based on other people's opinions about Linux BAX since you don't have this cable, and you are upset about speculative pricing and unconfirmed design/performance of Super BAX cable?

As I stated in my Linum BAX review (http://www.head-fi.org/t/756037/review-of-linum-bax-mmcx-cable-w-lots-of-pics-and-comparison) it's not a magic switch that's going to improve a sound of every IEM.  Instead, it will be a part of the synergy equation between your IEM and your DAP, and the level of improvement will vary.

Don't want to start yet another cable argument, especially since you don't have Linux BAX to draw your own conclusion about it's performance , but let's just wait until Super BAX is released, when we have confirmed pricing and design details, and when we actually going to get some hands'on comparison and impressions.

You understand correctly, but let's not dismiss the method so quickly.

Reading reviews on a product to form an opinion as to whether or not said product is something you'd like to spend money on is a fairly common thing, no? In fact, I'd venture to say that it represents literally the largest single culture of consumerism on the planet. From Amazon to blogs to reviews people post on forums... The culture is omnipresent. And something hovering around 50/50 can reasonably be seen (and commented on, despite personal experience or a lack thereof) as questionable. Do you buy the spatula on Amazon with half the reviews stating it melts in the dishwasher? No. You buy the one with mostly positive reviews. Is it fair to say "Gee, that spatula has a lot of bad reviews with the good. I'm no so sure it's a great option", despite not owning the spatuala? Sure.

It was my understanding that $400 was confirmed... And even if it's not, I think it's clear that the price of the Super BaX will be signifcantly more expensive than the BaX... Again which is, according to the dogma ouflined above, a dogma at the heart of the vast majority of modern consumerism, a questionable product. So the only thing really unknown is whether or not the Super BaX will be an improvement on a product that garnered around 50/50 positive reviews. Which begs the question which I asked and answered in my post (rant)... Do I feel comfortable paying a healthy upcharge for the as-yet unconfirmed performance benefits of an upgraded version of a product the market has deemed questionable? For me, the answer is no, for others, maybe yes.

I do agree cable arguments are lame, however.

 

[twister6]

You understand correctly, but let's not dismiss the method so quickly.

Reading reviews on a product to form an opinion as to whether or not said product is something you'd like to spend money on is a fairly common thing, no? In fact, I'd venture to say that it represents literally the largest single culture of consumerism on the planet. From Amazon to blogs to reviews people post on forums... The culture is omnipresent. And something hovering around 50/50 can reasonably be seen (and commented on, despite personal experience or a lack thereof) as questionable. Do you buy the spatula on Amazon with half the reviews stating it melts in the dishwasher? No. You buy the one with mostly positive reviews. Is it fair to say "Gee, that spatula has a lot of bad reviews with the good. I'm no so sure it's a great option", despite not owning the spatuala? Sure.

It was my understanding that $400 was confirmed... And even if it's not, I think it's clear that the price of the Super BaX will be signifcantly more expensive than the BaX... Again which is, according to the dogma ouflined above, a dogma at the heart of the vast majority of modern consumerism, a questionable product. So the only thing really unknown is whether or not the Super BaX will be an improvement on a product that garnered around 50/50 positive reviews. Which begs the question which I asked and answered in my post (rant)... Do I feel comfortable paying a healthy upcharge for the as-yet unconfirmed performance benefits of an upgraded version of a product the market has deemed questionable? For me, the answer is no, for others, maybe yes.

I do agree cable arguments are lame, however.

 
Oh, I do agree with you as well, you can't dismiss bulk of the reviews.  But I find cable discussion to be a rather confusing subject because so many other things needs to be taken into consideration.  I really enjoyed Linum BAX, but at the end found TWag v3 litz to have better synergy with UM Pro 50.  This has nothing to do with BAX, but rather a fact that Pro 50 has a dark signature and strong bass presence.  Boosting low end by another 3dB was a bit too much for my ears, so it wasn't a good match.  But with W40 or Pro 30 it worked out a lot better.  I even mentioned that improvement with Fidue A83 over their silver-plated stock cable was not that significant.  So, I'm afraid a lot of negative reviews/opinions about BAX cable was due to a bad match with IEM sound sig.  But who knows, it's all a speculation.  That's why I can only say about what I tested because I heard it with my ears.  Another thing about Linum cables, is the design, the light weight, the "invisible" comfort factor - all of which should be taken into consideration.
 
Regarding Super BAX price of $400, most Pure Silver cables are in that price range.  Linum BAX is silver-plated litz, so if you are using pure silver material or a mix of AG/AU, perhaps that's drive the price of it up?  Seems the market price of silver/gold drives the price of these cables.  Maybe Linum will shed some light about it once more info is available.

 

[Earbones]

Oh, I do agree with you as well, you can't dismiss bulk of the reviews.  But I find cable discussion to be a rather confusing subject because so many other things needs to be taken into consideration.  I really enjoyed Linum BAX, but at the end found TWag v3 litz to have better synergy with UM Pro 50.  This has nothing to do with BAX, but rather a fact that Pro 50 has a dark signature and strong bass presence.  Boosting low end by another 3dB was a bit too much for my ears, so it wasn't a good match.  But with W40 or Pro 30 it worked out a lot better.  I even mentioned that improvement with Fidue A83 over their silver-plated stock cable was not that significant.  So, I'm afraid a lot of negative reviews/opinions about BAX cable was due to a bad match with IEM sound sig.  But who knows, it's all a speculation.  That's why I can only say about what I tested because I heard it with my ears.  Another thing about Linum cables, is the design, the light weight, the "invisible" comfort factor - all of which should be taken into consideration.

Regarding Super BAX price of $400, most Pure Silver cables are in that price range.  Linum BAX is silver-plated litz, so if you are using pure silver material or a mix of AG/AU, perhaps that's drive the price of it up?  Seems the market price of silver/gold drives the price of these cables.  Maybe Linum will shed some light about it once more info is available.

Both good points. I'll be reading the initial reviews of the newer BaX cables with interest... I hope nobody feels I'm hating on Linum... At the end of the day, I'm just unwilling to pull the trigger on a the standard BaX (based on what I've read about it's compatibility with the SE846) nor to pay an upcharge for a revised version, unless it's garnering great reviews.

That said, if the first 100 units are $400, the final MSRP will have to be a bit lower for me to jump on board... $299 retail is my limit. Unless, of course, it's amazing... I don't mind ramen...

EDIT: Linum sales emailed me today confirming the first 100 cables at €350 / $400 USD, not including VAT or shipping.

 

[Sorensiim]

$400 is not approaching boutique cable prices, it is firmly there.
 

Spoiler: many words making many valid points

I guess as someone who's not experienced a BaX cable, but only read about them... I think it's completely insane. No offense to Linum, but as of right now it may be reasonably stated that they make a very comfortable and uniquely-sized IEM cable with questionable audio performance. About half the reviews I've read have stated as much... While everyone raves about the comfort, it often seems the Linum is inferior SQ-wise to the OEM cable. I honestly can't remember the last time I've seen an aftermarket cable get so many middling to poor reviews in the SQ department. Again, I don't mean to say that nobody likes them, there are definitely people who thought they added a great deal to the sound... But just as many who thought it added nothing, or detracted from the sound. It does appear to be around 50/50... I'll read a glowing review of the sound quality, then a poor one. It's worth noting that cables in general, whether they are good or bad, lend small changes to sound. As such, the reviewing of cables is inerently rife with people hearing what they want to hear. I'm definitely not calling anyone out, I'm just addressing the fact that this makes for an atmosphere where it's not difficult for a cable to amass a firm majority of glowing reviews. Just check out the reviews on the majority of aftermarket IEM and headphone cables. You'll see a pattern. 50/50 points to something being off.

Bottom line, string would also probably make a very comfortable IEM cable, but if the sound is not there, what's the point?

I didn't want to pony up the relative bargain-basement (for an aftermarket audiophile cable) price of $50 for the regular BaX, because I'd read enough reviews to reasonably be concerned that it would negatively affect the sound of my IEMs... The idea of ponying up $400 for a revised version that *may* sound better is ludicrous. Not when I could save money by going with very pricy yet proven performers like Toxic, Moon, etc...

I understand some may say that the $400 represents Linum's production costs with a made-to-order cable... That makes sense only if Linum sold, say, bicycle parts, but the owner was an audiophile, and wanted to start producing a cable design he had... Blah blah. A situation where retooling and reorganization of the production and materials purchasing dynamic was called for. But Linum makes IEM cables. They are currently selling four models. These preproduction units should not represent a significant stretching of resources in any capacity. I don't work there, so I can't make any informed accusations, but as an outsider looking in, it seems an awful lot like Linum is charging people an exorbitant sum to act as beta-testers. Some may be fine with that... People are free to spend their money however they like...

The thing with Linum is that they use a lot of time on R&D in Denmark. They have some pretty well-educated engineers working for them in a country sporting the highest tax pressure on the planet. This tax pressure means that Danish labor is mind-numbingly expensive, so for their regular cables they only do R&D in Denmark, with the actual mass production taking place at their facilities in Vietnam and China. Not only is the work done by machines, the people operating the machines work for quite a bit less than the Danish engineers who designed and developed the cables. 
 
Now, the Super Balanced/Super Bax is not yet ready for mass production. Instead, it's being built to order, by hand, by the Danish engineers. The review sample I'm enjoying right now was hand built by a very nice guy called Carit, an engineer with a degree in spatial acoustics IIRC. Does all this make the $400 Limited Edition Super Balanced a great bargain? Hell no. But it means that I don't think they're making obscene profits from it, they're just trying to cover their obscene costs.
 
I really like the Super Balanced. I mean, really like it. But I wouldn't pay $400 for any cable, so my best advice would be to wait patiently for the mass-produced version of it. 
 

Spoiler: Off-topic stuff about Denmark

"Seriously, how expensive can Danish labor really be?" Well, income taxes span from 40% to 70%, depending on your income, The more you make, the more you pay. Cars have a 180% special tax on them. There is a 25% sales tax on everything from chewing gum to labor to motorcycles, plus additional taxes on alcohol, tobacco, sugar, gas and oil. Average Joe Burgerflipper makes $18 an hour plus 5 weeks of paid vacation a year, plus government mandated unemployment insurance, plus overtime, plus pension savings etc. I mash keyboards for a living; I'm an IT specialist. Not first-level user support but not top dog SAP development either. I work 37 hours a week and I make $5500 a month, before taxes. Doctors start at about twice that, as do engineers with some years of experience and a couple of degrees in their relevant fields.
 
"How do you live with those insane taxes?!?"
Well, those admittedly insane taxes pay for universal health care and free education for everyone. Mom & pop were unemployed? Well, that doesn't mean you can't be a doctor or a lawyer! Hell, there's even a monthly government grant so you actually get paid to get an education. Got cancer? No need to start cooking meth, your free treatment starts right now. Don't worry, we have plenty of skilled doctors because they're well paid and not bogged down by $100K of student debt.
 
Bonus: Now you know why Lego sets and Bang & Olufsen speakers are so expensive.

 

[Merloobi]

  -snip-

The quote in your signature is oddly relevant.