[romaz]

l had a chance to listen to the Innuos Zenith SE while at RMAF in Denver today. There was no way to assess its true impact at an audio show but I did speak with Innous' U.S. distributor, Well Pleased Audio Vida, who promised to try and get me an SE unit for personal review. After speaking with the distributor, it appears the only difference between the standard Zenith Mk 2 and the SE version is a better power supply. Obviously, this better power supply must be a big deal.

The distributor didn't have enough technical knowledge to really discuss how Innous (a Portuguese company) distinguishes its servers from the servers of other companies but based on Innuos' website, apart from the best multi-rail linear power supply they know how to build, this machine also focuses on transformer-based isolation at its Ethernet ports, vibration control (without saying how), and "in memory playback" which are not really unique features in of themselves and so this doesn't really tell me much. Based on the favorable reviews of many, this appears to be an excellent server and hopefully, I'll get the chance to assess it firsthand shortly.

I have first-hand experience with the Antipodes DX Gen2 and this is an excellent server, one of the best out there. I am intrigued by the "V4X" circuit used in the Gen3 and how this might differ from the V3.5X circuit used in the Gen2. As these are proprietary terms that have no meaning to anyone other than Antipodes, those knowledgeable about servers who are interested in the tech used in this server are pretty much left clueless as to how this machine distinguishes itself from other servers.

Having opened up a DX Gen2, the machine I looked at used a typical off-the-shelf Jetway mini-ITX motherboard with an embedded Celeron CPU. Antipodes made the odd choice of using a SOtM tX-USBhubIN USB output card which is an excellent USB card, however, this card is only SOtM's 2nd best card as their tX-USBexp card is their very best and SOtM has confirmed this with me.

As to Antipodes' claim that their new Gen3 machine "avoids noise filters used in other products," this may be a misleading statement. If Antipodes continues to use an SOtM USB output card, I can assure you all of SOtM's USB output cards are noise filtering devices as this is specifically how SOtM describes their cards. Yes, of course, it is better to design a clean machine so that filtering becomes unnecessary but this is not a practical statement to make, imho. Even if Antipodes went to the extraordinary lengths of designing their own motherboard that is completely devoid of noisy switching regulators and then powered such a motherboard with an extraordinary PSU with unmeasurable ripple noise, such a motherboard would still generate a fair amount of noise that should be filtered as the CPU, RAM, ICs, clocks, etc., are noise generating components. To let this noise reach a DAC, even a DAC with galvanic isolation such as a Chord DAVE, is only asking for trouble. What I am saying is that filtering is absolutely necessary.

What is interesting is that these manufacturers provide no real specifics of what they do nor do they supply measurements that support their claims of superiority and so it becomes a guessing game as to how good these servers really are relative to their competition. Having attempted to identify the specific noise impact of various components in a server, beyond using CPUs with simple architecture like Celerons, using minimal amounts of RAM (which themselves contribute noise), as well as low latency operating systems and software players, I have also found avoiding SSDs, which are significant noise polluting devices to be important if avoidance of fatiguing glare is the goal. The fact that both servers are utilizing large capacity SSDs as internal storage is a red flag, as far as I'm concerned, as all the large capacity SATA III SSDs I have looked at from popular vendors such as Samsung or Kingston are quite noisy electrically (much noisier than the smaller capacity SATA II SSDs and dramatically noisier than an SD card or compact flash card). Beyond that, I have found the stock clocks used in off-the-shelf motherboards to also be quite noisy as replacement of such clocks with other clocks with dramatically lower phase noise measurements have resulted in not just a profound reduction in glare but as a consequence of this removal of glare, a richer tonal palette, better fine detail discernment and also better dynamic contrasts. Behind the best low noise, low impedance PSU that one can find, I have not found anything that has resulted in a more dramatic impact than replacement of the noisy clocks within your digital chain and this is a big reason why such devices like SOtM's tX-USBexp, sMS-200ultra or tX-USBultra can make such a notable difference. The problem is that these devices are indeed filtering devices and while very effective, what is more effective is to replace all the bad clocks that precede such devices (ie the motherboard's system clock, your LAN port's clock, router's clocks, etc) which make these "rescue" devices much less necessary.

Having replaced all the clocks that I am able to from my router to my server (a total of 8 clocks), the improvement I have found has been quite profound even with the Blu Mk2 and DAVE following my server and thus far, this fairly straightforward build when powered by my Paul Hynes SR7 is the best I have heard by a very considerable margin. While I am open-minded to just how good the Zenith SE and the latest generation Antipodes DX might be with the "secret sauce" they employ that their manufacturers refuse to disclose, unless these devices have removed noisy clocks, I have a feeling these excellent servers can be made even better.

 

[TheAttorney]

While I am open-minded to just how good the Zenith SE and the latest generation Antipodes DX might be with the "secret sauce" they employ that their manufacturers refuse to disclose, unless these devices have removed noisy clocks, I have a feeling these excellent servers can be made even better.

Good to have you back on this thread romaz .
Before you disappear again, could you shed some light on something still bugging me:

You (and others at CA) have ended up with quite a few SOtM components in your ultimate systems and rate them highly. Now, SOtM include exactly the same components in their own 1000 server. Yet that server has generally been damned with faint praise - even at CA. So what's going on here?

Maybe the SOtM guys haven't got round to updating their server with all the knowledge they've been gaining over the last year?
I ask this because it's still a 3-horse race for my laptop replacement: Zenith SE, Antipodes new gen Core (a closer price comparison to the SE than the DX is, and potential for its external p/s to be repaced by an SR7), and the SOtM 1000.

 

[toetapaudio]

@romaz, thank you for your insights.

@the attorney, I was also wondering about the SOtM 1000 and how it might compare with the “spaghetti “ solutions.

 

[romaz]

Good to have you back on this thread romaz .
Before you disappear again, could you shed some light on something still bugging me:

You (and others at CA) have ended up with quite a few SOtM components in your ultimate systems and rate them highly. Now, SOtM include exactly the same components in their own 1000 server. Yet that server has generally been damned with faint praise - even at CA. So what's going on here?

Maybe the SOtM guys haven't got round to updating their server with all the knowledge they've been gaining over the last year?
I ask this because it's still a 3-horse race for my laptop replacement: Zenith SE, Antipodes new gen Core (a closer price comparison to the SE than the DX is, and potential for its external p/s to be repaced by an SR7), and the SOtM 1000.

I spent quite a bit of time with SOtM while at RMAF this weekend. Personally, I believe the sMS-1000SQ's Achille's heel is its PSU which I suspect is very mediocre based on private comments made to me by someone who owns one. Replaced with something like a Paul Hynes SR7, this could be as a good a server as anything out there and so this individual has an SR7 on order and hopefully, I will find out soon enough.

While at RMAF, SOtM was showcasing their sMS-1000SQ followed by a single tX-USBultra (which SOtM insists still makes a big difference) and both the sMS-1000SQ and tX-USBultra were both connected to SOtM's new external master clock. These devices were also being powered by their new sPS-500 PSU (which is supposedly much better then their previous PSU). With this digital front end feeding a pair of Magico S1 Mk2 speakers, what I heard was wonderful and as I had a chance to A/B the impact of their new external master clock (which will cost between $1,500 - $3,500 depending on whether you get their entry level, mid level or reference level clock), the impact was indeed significant with respect to less glare, a more fluid sound and a bigger and airier soundstage. How would this combo compare against an Antipodes or the Zenith SE, I can't say. While I have their new sPS-500 PSU on hand and while it is indeed very good, it is still not as good as a Paul Hynes SR7 but it's possible that the PSU in the Antipodes or Zenith aren't either.

What you should know is that SOtM is currently working on an even better server that is supposed to be considerably better than the sMS-1000SQ. It will incorporate an even better PSU and will integrate the master clock within the chassis as well as a few other things that Lee is working on. What it will cost and when it will be available is anyone's guess but I suspect it won't be available this year.

 

[TheAttorney]

Good, I was hoping that SOtM would be working on something that would integrate more of their newfound experience, like master clock.
I probably will wait for things to settle down a bit more. My mR+IR give me a very enjoyable sound in the meantime.

I'm getting quite good at waiting - still absolutely no sign of my Paul Hynes SR7 - well over 2 months later than Paul's own July ETA estimate when I ordered in May. I blame you romaz for praising his products so much - he obviously can't keep up with the resultant demand

 

[Whazzzup]

Very interesting discussions. The a/b of servers is a difficult proposition for many reasons for lots of folks. While I in my non golden ear, like very much what ds gt antipodes provided me in sq enhancements over the iMac. I have no idea about other brands. I will be able to upgrade to ds core v4 in late October November, while no direct comparison can be done my thoughts on what I hear from their next gen will be made on my antipodes thread.
I do think in my none scientific way that benefits from servers in general is self evident in the listening I suspect that the proprietary mystery around why I’m better than you is part of the shell game, like cables, why one prefers one over another. So good thread to break down the mystery of benefits.

 

[bmichels]

Romaz, you should look at this belgian server. Indeed they also explained to me that they "prefer to use a custom spinning HD instead of SSD which, as they say, are not as good as people try to make us believe".

They have many versions from 1000 € to 9000 € and their TOL Evo MASTER version include a separate dedicated PSU Box and a dedicated superclock board.
They also can be ROON SERVER. (I believe we need to forget their 432 post processing gimic, and just use them as a bit perfect server)

 

[toetapaudio]

@bmichels, thanks for posting about 432 Evo. Have you listened/compared?

 

[Malcyg]

Romaz, you should look at this belgian server. Indeed they also explained to me that they "prefer to use a custom spinning HD instead of SSD which, as they say, are not as good as people try to make us believe".

They have many versions from 1000 € to 9000 € and their TOL Evo MASTER version include a separate dedicated PSU Box and a dedicated superclock board.
They also can be ROON SERVER. (I believe we need to forget their 432 post processing gimic, and just use them as a bit perfect server)

Yes, that does look interesting.

 

[bmichels]

YES I heard it and it sound very good, and still resonnably priced.

I am very interested by it because it is a 1 box solution with Storage and Roon Server included inside, there is no need for external storage/NAS and for External PC to run ROON server.... Just this music server, an iPAD, and a DAC.

 

[toetapaudio]

@bmichels, what model did you hear? Did you compare it to anything else? Are you able to audition one at home?

 

[Whazzzup]

YES I heard it and it sound very good, and still resonnably priced.

I am very interested by it because it is a 1 box solution with Storage and Roon Server included inside, there is no need for external storage/NAS and for External PC to run ROON server.... Just this music server, an iPAD, and a DAC.

same with antipode I'm waiting with price and location info to upgrade to DS core with new v4H circuit upgrade, from my DSGT.

 

[Johnny Moondog]

The advantage is that the Ethernet output from the Zenith should be a lot less noisy than a typical LAN connection [...] You can't hear the noise until you start to remove it, but the difference when you do can be substantial in terms of increased clarity, resolution and accuracy.

Yes the DMP-1 is a Roon end point that replaced a microRendu.

And I agree with your observations regarding the removal of noise. My music library resides on a Synology NAS controlled by Roon. But when I want to dive into some serious listening of all time favorites, I switch the DMP-1 out of Roon Ready Mode and play files from USB flash drives connected to the DMP-1. In that configuration playback is controlled with the iPad application Soundirok. I assume part of the improved sound quality is due to the noise of LAN and router not being involved.

I first heard the improvement of switching the DMP-1 to direct playback in a massive system: Martin Logan Neolith speakers, Constellation Audio Altair II preamplifier, Constellation Audio Inspiration monaural power amplifiers, and Berkeley Audio Alpha DAC Reference Series 2.

And this goal of eliminating noise is what first got me interested in the Antipodes DX ... from reading interviews with Mark Jenkins describing that as a major part of the design, followed by articles on the Antipodes Resources page.

When the Innuous Zenith arrived, I was curious about it's design approach regarding the elimination of noise.

 

[Malcyg]

I assume part of the improved sound quality is due to the noise of LAN and router not being involved.

Yes, correct. This gives quite a big improvement in my experience.

 

[Johnny Moondog]

l had a chance to listen to the Innuos Zenith SE while at RMAF in Denver today. [...] I have first-hand experience with the Antipodes DX Gen2...

Thanks for sharing your detailed observations and experience. Over in the fantasy department... I'll try to locate someone whose taken delivery of a DX3 and bribe him to bring it over to your place if you get to audition the Zenith!