[auditude]

Is it safe to assume that you can replace the xo parts with same values but better parts to improve the sound of a speaker?

I've got a set of Morel Renaissance Duets and I'm trying to get a better balance between mid and high freqs.

I actually love the tweeter performance (I should as it's an MDT-33 same used in Eggleston and Merlin).

But the mid, lacks some "snap" and "punch". It's a TL design so it goes respectably low in room but there's no "bloom" that I'm used to with Sax and some vocals. It's more "analytical" and I'm not used to that being as I'm running a full tube rig.

TIA for any help.

 

[Paragon]

Should be able to. You may want to head over to diyaudio as they are more geared toward home theater components.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by auditude /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is it safe to assume that you can replace the xo parts with same values but better parts to improve the sound of a speaker? I've got a set of Morel Renaissance Duets and I'm trying to get a better balance between mid and high freqs. I actually love the tweeter performance (I should as it's an MDT-33 same used in Eggleston and Merlin). But the mid, lacks some "snap" and "punch". It's a TL design so it goes respectably low in room but there's no "bloom" that I'm used to with Sax and some vocals. It's more "analytical" and I'm not used to that being as I'm running a full tube rig. TIA for any help.

If the mids lack some snap I'm guessing you need to increse the value of the crossover point, the definition in mid-high freq is what gives you the sense of snap, tweeter are usually best suited for that purpose than mid drivers..

I'm not an expert by any means in the speaker dept, and you may need to see any other member advice, maybe a little boost in the highs will give you that feeling as well, you need to match the sensitivity of the both, highs and mids, using resistors to attenuate mids in that case, my best suggestion get one crossover with L-pads, and try the best setting, and later on replace them with a fixed value one...

 

[auditude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif If the mids lack some snap I'm guessing you need to increse the value of the crossover point, the definition in mid-high freq is what gives you the sense of snap, tweeter are usually best suited for that purpose than mid drivers.. I'm not an expert by any means in the speaker dept, and you may need to see any other member advice, maybe a little boost in the highs will give you that feeling as well, you need to match the sensitivity of the both, highs and mids, using resistors to attenuate mids in that case, my best suggestion get one crossover with L-pads, and try the best setting, and later on replace them with a fixed value one...

Is the l-pad xo an internal component? I'm very interested in this option. Where can I source one where it is of decent quality that applying one on the speakers won't deteriorate the sound.

Thank you for the reply!

 

[Bilavideo]

This is Bill from the future. An L-Pad is a variable resistor, like a potentiometer (volume control) but with a higher wattage rating. Resistors have minimal effect on sound signature. Their primary effect is to increase resistance and thereby lower volume. As you'll find when hooking up tweeters and midrange domes along with woofers, the woofers will be easily drowned out by the tweeters and midrange. There are several reasons for this, including the ease of driving tweeters compared to the amount of wattage it takes to get any real volume from a woofer. There's also something known as the baffle effect, where a significant amount of bass ends up behind the speaker, giving woofers a 3 dB loss rate compared to mids and tweeters.

An L-pad lets you attenuate, or turn down, the mids and tweets so they don't drown out your woofers. You're not hurting your upper end, just putting it on a leash. On my home system, I turn my L-pads all the way down and turn my system up until my bass is where I want it, then gradually raise the mid/tweet levels till I've achieved a euphonic balance.

L-pads made a huge difference in my home system. When I first assembled by three-way system, I was disappointed in my bass response, even with a crossover. It was after I bought the L-pads that I got the punch I was looking for. Of course, once I got all the bass I wanted, I realized I needed to tweak the crossover some more. Too much upper bass gives vocals that husky sound, as if every woman were Jodie Foster and every man James Earl Jones. Crossing the low-pass lower, I was able to adjust the amount of midbass to get the low throbbing voice of God without turning everybody into Darth Vader.

This is Bill from the future returning to the future. Bye.

 

[BobMcN]

Typically when upgrading a crossover you might consider the following:

- replace all caps with a boutique cap of your choice. There's plenty of them and each has its own flavor. However, one that works well with a metal dome may not be appropriate for use with a silk dome. This is where the art of speaker voicing comes in.
- you may want to consider bypassing the caps in the tweeter section with smaller values, like .1uF or .01uF. This will tend to open up the top end, bringing more air and detail while helping to smooth out the treble. However, listen first without them and see if you think you need it first. Sometimes too much of a good thing is too much.
- replace the tweeter resistor with a good quality Mills resistor. It's directly in the signal path and can certainly improve the sound.
- you may want to replace the wire inside with something of better quality
- sometimes adding judiciously placed Black Hole 5 dampening inside the cabinet can improve bass performance. But it also may muck with the speaker voicing and necessitate some other crossover changes that are more advanced than just replacing like values.
- get some gasket foam and use it to seal the speaker surround to the cabinet, ensuring an air tight seal
- if your speakers don't have sufficient internal bracing you may want to do something about that. There are several methods you could try.

I would suggest that you visit Madisound Speaker Components | Assisting speaker builders for more than 25 years. and lurk on the forum over there. Lots of experience to be gathered, maybe even about your specific speaker.

Good luck,
Bob

 

[Uncle Erik]

Unless you change the values of the crossover or to different drivers you're not going to notice much difference.

Have you tried different room placement? That can make a huge difference.

There's also the possibility that the speakers are not right for you. It's usually better to sell and replace rather than modify.

 

[BobMcN]

Au contraire, mon frere! Upgrading crossover components to better quality can make a big difference. It will tighten up the bass, extend the treble, give more presence and air to a recording, expand the soundstage and improve the imaging. These changes can certainly let the drivers perform at their peak.

That all being said, not all changes are good ones. Sometimes you have to may have to go back because a change went too far in one direction and screwed up the sound. I agree that room placement and even room treatments are important to getting good overall sound, and should be tried first. But that doesn't mean that the speaker itself can't be improved with a few judicial upgrades.

It all depends on the quality of the original crossover design also. The speaker manufacturer voiced that speaker to their liking. So changes could upset that balance, or they could improve on it. There's no way to know unless you try, if you're not happy with the way they sound now.