Originally Posted by squall2072 2 More weeks!? I say break down and call him on his home phone now!!
Believe me I am don't like the wait, but I've decided to stick it out for black since it matches my other components.
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Originally Posted by squall2072 Let us know what you think of the Apollo when she comes and works (fingers crossed) I really want to know how it does with rock.
Will do. The US distributor has agreed to test the Apollo before he ships it out to me and trust me my fingers are crossed too. I hope the Apollo does rock well because I listen to it most of the time.
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Originally Posted by squall2072 I can't bloody decide.
Originally Posted by JayGee The Apollo has been there for a few weeks and has been played a lot... The man who is my audio dealer has known me for years and he assured me that the Apollo was well broken in and on song.
Jaygee
Don't take this as an attack on your assessment but the trouble is, many dealers don't know how many hours are needed to fully burn in a brand new CD player. Dealers will tell you its fully broken in but they really don't know. If your dealer had the Apollo for a few weeks and played it quite a bit, he probably had about 40-50 hours of actual playing time. The sound that you descibe hearing is similiar to what I heard on my Apollo at under 100 hours. I found that the Apollo continue to improve for about the first 450 hours. I played my Apollo continuously 24/7 for 3 weeks to fully burn it in. I hardly think that your dealer had even close to 450 hours of burn in time on an Apollo that was only a few weeks old. I think the number of hours that the Apollo has been played accounts for most of the variability in opinions of this player.
Originally Posted by SteveM324 Don't take this as an attack on your assessment but the trouble is, many dealers don't know how many hours are needed to fully burn in a brand new CD player. Dealers will tell you its fully broken in but they really don't know. If your dealer had the Apollo for a few weeks and played it quite a bit, he probably had about 40-50 hours of actual playing time. The sound that you descibe hearing is similiar to what I heard on my Apollo at under 100 hours. I found that the Apollo continue to improve for about the first 450 hours. I played my Apollo continuously 24/7 for 3 weeks to fully burn it in. I hardly think that your dealer had even close to 450 hours of burn in time on an Apollo that was only a few weeks old. I think the number of hours that the Apollo has been played accounts for most of the variability in opinions of this player.
Originally Posted by Sean H Actually, Ryan, I'm not so sure - unfortunately. A close friend of mine works for FedEx, he's a delivery driver with a daily route who could tell you some stories. It's no different from UPS at all, packages at FedEx are thrown around and abused (sometimes even for fun unfortunately) just like UPS. It's not good but the reality of it.
These kids throwing packages around "for fun" should be glad I'm not their supervisor. I'd have their rears in a sling before you could blink... actually, it would be an instant "fire" for any idiot throwing packages around for entertainment. This obviously costs UPS or Fedex money in insurance claims, not to mention the effects on the shipper/receiver.
I agree with the need to burn cdp's in general and the Apollo in particular. It sounds great out of the box but does improve over time. I've compared it to the Planet 2000 which at $500 used is a great deal but it's not on the same level as the Apollo imo. I feel the Apollo improves on the Planet in almost every way. Having said that, if your budget is in the under $600 range, that would be my player at the moment.
The US distributor just called me and gave me an option silver finish can be shipped today or I can wait an additional 2 to 3 weeks for the black finish, which is my prefer color choice. I first said silver then I paused and said I suppose two or three weeks won't kill me. So black it is unless I can't wait, break-down and call him back for an in-stock silver. Did I make the right decision to wait it out?
Good choice, I had the silver planet 2000 and now have the black one. Both should look identical to the Apollo's except for the lid. The Silver version looked rather plasticky, the black one looks cool.
Originally Posted by SteveM324 Don't take this as an attack on your assessment but the trouble is, many dealers don't know how many hours are needed to fully burn in a brand new CD player. Dealers will tell you its fully broken in but they really don't know. If your dealer had the Apollo for a few weeks and played it quite a bit, he probably had about 40-50 hours of actual playing time. The sound that you descibe hearing is similiar to what I heard on my Apollo at under 100 hours. I found that the Apollo continue to improve for about the first 450 hours. I played my Apollo continuously 24/7 for 3 weeks to fully burn it in. I hardly think that your dealer had even close to 450 hours of burn in time on an Apollo that was only a few weeks old. I think the number of hours that the Apollo has been played accounts for most of the variability in opinions of this player.
No attack assumed! Actually I agree very much with your comments about dealers and burn-in time so just to be sure I called him to get a better idea of how many hours the machine had on it. I also asked about conflicting reports I'd read about the bass performance of the Apollo. I wanted to like this player as a possible upgrade to the Planet 2000. I did not like the Jupiter so that path was closed to me but I wanted to keep the Rega sound.
Anyway, I was told that the demo unit I listened to has well over 500 hours playing time. It is well used and was actually there longer than I had initally thought. Remember, I thought the Apollo sounded very good, but it was not a night and day improvement on the Planet 2000. To my ears anyway and we all hear these things differently. The Planet 2000 has a unique voicing that makes it sound a bit like a (Linn-ish) turntable. I like that warm clear sound and to me many CD players are a little too cool or sterile sounding. The biggest difference between the two seemed to be in the voicing rather than overall performance, although with the Apollo there were some improvements in the treble performance. I sometimes wished the Planet 2000 had more treble, but if I listened to the Apollo every day I might actually wish for a bit less. I missed the bass and overall warmth of the Planet 2000. And even though the Apollo had more treble detail there was a same-y quality to it from CD to CD that felt like a coloration. I felt that the older player gave more variety of sound between different recordings. Maybe the older player is more colored overall but the Apollo seemed to make my CDs sound more alike than the Planet 2000. I guess you can't have it all at this price level.
By the way, my dealer felt that the Apollo bass became lighter and tighter as the break in was completed. He also said that if the unit were sitting on the wrong type of support it would have a slightly heavy bass quality and that timing would suffer.
The Apollo CD player is lightly voiced and that is the correct sound to look for when putting it into your system. Set-ups that use cables or supports that "bring out the bass" tend to mess up the timing and timing is what Rega CD players should do very well. When you hear people complaining that Rega CD players can't reproduce rock music you know that they do not have them set up correctly and the timing is not there.
What sort of support(s) do you have your Apollo on? What cables are you using? The dem unit was on a Naim Fraim and we listened through both a Rega Mira 3 and Naim 112x/150x amps.
By the way, I do trust this dealer. Many years ago he sold me my first Linn-Naim set-up and tought me all about the issues of good set-up and performance. Leave the gear on all the time, no circuit breakers or power conditioners. Cables properly oriented. It is very important to use either Rega Couple or Chord cables with Rega gear as that is what they are voiced with. He would not risk loosing sales by running a unit that was not performing as it should.
Originally Posted by JayGee Remember, I thought the Apollo sounded very good, but it was not a night and day improvement on the Planet 2000. To my ears anyway and we all hear these things differently. The Planet 2000 has a unique voicing that makes it sound a bit like a (Linn-ish) turntable...
By the way, my dealer felt that the Apollo bass became lighter and tighter as the break in was completed. He also said that if the unit were sitting on the wrong type of support it would have a slightly heavy bass quality and that timing would suffer.
The Apollo CD player is lightly voiced and that is the correct sound to look for when putting it into your system. Set-ups that use cables or supports that "bring out the bass" tend to mess up the timing and timing is what Rega CD players should do very well. When you hear people complaining that Rega CD players can't reproduce rock music you know that they do not have them set up correctly and the timing is not there.
What sort of support(s) do you have your Apollo on? What cables are you using? The dem unit was on a Naim Fraim and we listened through both a Rega Mira 3 and Naim 112x/150x amps.
Jaygee
I know very well how a Linn turntable sounds since I'm on my second one. I started out almost 15 years ago with Basik and 8 years ago I upgraded to a 25 year anniversary model LP12 with Lingo power supply and Ekos arm. The Apollo sounds as close to analog as any player I've heard near its price.
I disagree with your dealer in that I heard the bass get deeper as well as tighter and the overall sound become more full bodied as the Apollo broke in.
I have not tried any isolation devices under the Apollo and I don't think isolation devices would improve things much (but I will eventually try some iso bearings that I have laying around) especially because I'm using it in a dedicated headphone system so I don't have to deal with acoustic feedback from speakers. The Apollo sits on top of my Sanus rack. I use Acoustic Zen Matrix interconnects which I feel is better than the stock IC's. The power cord I use is the ESP Essence, again I feel it betters the stock cord. IMO the power cords and IC's help to tailor the sound to my individual preference but they are not essential to getting great sound from the Apollo.
BTW, I don't agree with Linnies and Rega supporters that think that IC's and power cords need to be stock. I experiment with different IC's and power cords and which ever sounds best stays in my system.
I agree with what tyrion has said in the last sentence of reply #44.
I continue to listen to the Music Hall CD25.2, and it continues to obliterate the Apollo (and others I have owned in the sub-$1000 price category)--especially in smoothness, bass, dynamics, and liveliness...and this is with about 15 hours of break-in. In the 15 years I have owned and auditioned high end components, I have never heard of a unit needing 400 hours of break-in. If fact, I can remember only one piece of gear that showed any noticeable change beyond the 100 or 120 hour mark.
Originally Posted by gtortorella I continue to listen to the Music Hall CD25.2, and it continues to obliterate the Apollo.
I’ve learned enough to know that it is necessary to look into things a second time that I am the most positive about the first. No offense intended, but your posts are beginning to sound like a mantra: “Apollo bad, Music Hall CD 25.2 much, much better.” You’ve convinced me that you hands down prefer the Music Hall. And I am glad you found the digital source that does it for you.
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Originally Posted by gtortorella I have never heard of a unit needing 400 hours of break-in. If fact, I can remember only one piece of gear that showed any noticeable change beyond the 100 or 120 hour mark.
The many times rehashed burn-in debate. I am still skeptical about the so-called burn-in process, but regardless I give each new component more than enough time to burn and settle in. And, if necessary, I will swap out different pieces in the chain so that the particular component has been given its opportunity to shine.
No offense taken, 909. In these posts, I am not trying to create some sort of mantra for the CD25.2. I am attempting to express something I find quite interesting: the fact that a $600 player, when placed in my system, outperforms a much-talked-about $995 player (when placed in the same system). Of course, I have seen similar things happen, but this is perhaps the most glaring example I have experienced.
I wanted to help you in your decision-making process, and I hope I have. Perhaps the other components in your system will have a synergy with the Apollo. Since the Music Hall, when placed in my system, had an abundance of the qualities you seem to favor, I thought I should convey my findings to you. With regard to some of the other comments that have been made, if anything is becoming a mantra in this discussion, it would seem to be "Apollo is the greatest...and do not object."
Originally Posted by gtortorella No offense taken, 909
I am glad because none was intended.
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Originally Posted by gtortorella I wanted to help you in your decision-making process, and I hope I have.
Thank you very much for your thoughtfulness; it’s appreciated. But if you were to revisit the very first post in this thread you’ll read that I’ve already purchased the Apollo and this thread begun as a result of receiving it dead on arrival.
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Originally Posted by gtortorella Perhaps the other components in your system will have a synergy with the Apollo. Since the Music Hall, when placed in my system, had an abundance of the qualities you seem to favor, I thought I should convey my findings to you.
Obviously, you have more first hand experience with the Apollo and the Music Hall than I since I’ve as of yet haven’t had the opportunity to listen to either. On your recommendation, I have done some research on Music Hall 25.2 and based on only two or three professional reviews I have read I haven’t been overly impressed. And I suppose that my current digital source (Esound E5) is at minimum very comparable if not better. My initially impressions are supported by numerous Head-Fiers, and even you conceded this point in that thread (http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...+hall+25.2+E5). I haven’t delved further, but I’ll trust my ears when I have the opportunity to compare the Apollo against my E5.
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Originally Posted by gtortorella With regard to some of the other comments that have been made, if anything is becoming a mantra in this discussion, it would seem to be "Apollo is the greatest...and do not object."
I beg to differ; no one has made any such claims or comments about the Apollo. Some Head-Fiers beside you have expressed their less than spectacular listening time with the Apollo whereas more than some have expressed their positive experience with the Apollo. Your comments are welcome and appreciated (to keep this discussion grounded) that the Apollo isn’t for everyone; and I certainly didn’t imply censorship, but IMO you’ve saliently said nearly the same thing at least three times. I personally find it to be somewhat redundant.
FWIW I think digital sources are in the end a matter of personal taste for the listener. I've owned a couple of pretty expensive and well reviewed CD players over the years that I sold because I did not like them. One can't assume that more $ is going to translate into a better sound or more involvng music. Each CD player has set up issues that need to be learned.
With the Rega, if you follow the general set-up people use for Naim CD players you will be on the right track. Remember that the Rega was not voiced to sit on aftermarket feet or cones. The lean sound of the Apollo is not an accident or shortcoming, it is the way the unit is voiced by the designers. The power cord included with the unit is the one it was voiced with, along with the "Couple" interconnect.
This is all subjective, but by following this known path you will never have to worry that your CD player is not performing correctly. Set up correctly, if you do not take to the sound, it's probably not the right CD player for you.
The Rega sound is not one that grabs quickly. If the system and set-up are not right they can sound uninteresting. Used correctly they give a very musical performance, in the style of Naim and Linn, but with less fatigue and better reproduction of timbre. The pace (timing) and dynamics need to be maintained.
Trust your ears, not reviews or hype. Remember that people stand to make a lot of money by selling you new equipment.
Another suggestion...the Rega Ear headphone amp sings with these CD players. The synergy is very good and the Ear may outperform some much more expensive amps when used with the Rega CD source.
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