[mikeg]

Since I get the 25 cent records, about 50 at a time, and since I only keep about half of them, it would be a real waste of time to clean all of them with the cleaning machine. Especially because I can only clean about 13 records an hour, and thus cleaning them is rather burdensome. I therefore brush each record off with an Audioquest anti-static brush before sampling the first few minutes. This tells me which records are worth cleaning with the VPI 16.5 machine, prior to critically listening. BTW, the new Esoteric Sound Surface Noise Reducer (see posting number 1, above) arrived yesterday, and is now in use. My first impression is that it's doing a good, yet subtle job, in reducing surface noise, without diminishing sound quality. I'll post more information regarding its performance in a few days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif You might not want to play a record until you've had a chance to clean it. If you play a dirty record, there's a chance that the dirt will get embedded into the grooves and never come out, even with repeated cleaning. See ya Steve

 

[Todd R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif You might not want to play a record until you've had a chance to clean it. If you play a dirty record, there's a chance that the dirt will get embedded into the grooves and never come out, even with repeated cleaning. See ya Steve

Right! (hey, we agree for once

).
Used records never touch the turntable until cleaned.

New records too.
I bought 3 brand new records last month took them out of the package, played them and they were all somewhat noisy. After a good cleaning on the VPI they were quieter.

Seems like there was some fine paper dust or other debris on them from the factory.

 

[mikeg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd R /img/forum/go_quote.gif Right! (hey, we agree for once ). Used records never touch the turntable until cleaned. New records too. I bought 3 brand new records last month took them out of the package, played them and they were all somewhat noisy. After a good cleaning on the VPI they were quieter. Seems like there was some fine paper dust or other debris on them from the factory.

How much quieter were they? slightly quieter, or somewhat quieter, or much quieter? What I've found is that a thorough VPI cleaning makes records only slightly quieter, although there is also a slight improvement in sound quality. In my experience, records that start out with noisy surfaces, retain noisy surfaces, despite thorough cleaning. But, some records have amazingly quiet surfaces from the very start, and cleaning them with a machine is probably unnecessary.

 

[Todd R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeg /img/forum/go_quote.gif How much quieter were they? slightly quieter, or somewhat quieter, or much quieter? What I've found is that a thorough VPI cleaning makes records only slightly quieter, although there is also a slight improvement in sound quality. In my experience, records that start out with noisy surfaces, retain noisy surfaces, despite thorough cleaning. But, some records have amazingly quiet surfaces from the very start, and cleaning them with a machine is probably unnecessary.

Before cleaning there was surface noise...clicks, crackle, small pops that were clearly audible between songs.
Most brand new records are usually noise free.
After cleaning these were too (other than that one LP).
So there you go

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif Use white vinegar and there won't be any gunk in the grooves. Then all the towel is wicking out is distilled water, which leaves no residue. Best to let the record dry before playing. Water in the grooves will act like oil on a whetstone.

So you wet the gunk with vinegar which creates a "vingar gunk" which you then rinse with distilled water which hopefully flushes out the most of it depending on how you apply the water.

Then you dry it with a towel which smears "vinegar-gunk in distilled water solution" all over the record while absorbing what is visible on the surface.

Then you allow the shiny record with what is left of this damp residue still festering in the bottom of the grooves to rack dry in the air so the water evapourates leaving the residue.

I bet you get rid of big pops caused by large chunks of dust and dirt and instead get a fine light crackle as this is what I used to get on the occasions I tried to remove foreign matter from records without vacuuming afterwards.

I bet the end of your stylus tip is also very dirty after this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeg In my experience, records that start out with noisy surfaces, retain noisy surfaces, despite thorough cleaning...

Have you tried different cleaning solutions? Nitty Gritty make a good pre-wash one called First Try that you apply by hand with a felt brush prior to the cleaning cycle which is a really good deep cleaner.

There is also the Knosti Disco-Antistat which is a sort of deep cleaning bath that works well prior to cleaning on an RCM.

I have found different solutions, Vinyl Zyme Gold, Buggtussel Enzyme, L'Art Du Son etc.. all give different results and work better at some types of dirt than others which obviously varies in different areas, climates etc...

There are notable differences in sound as a result too which suggests to me that all these things leave a cerain degree of residue even WITH vacumm cleaning nevermind without...

 

[jsaliga]

Well, I for one think that way too much is made of what cleaning can accomplish. If a record is truly dirty then a good cleaning will help. I have been using a VPI 16.5 RCM for some time now. I like it a lot, but it will not magically repair damaged grooves or silence recurring pops caused by scratches.

I think it is good to have the right expectations. And if you are buying a lot of vintage recorlds in bulk then you probably need to accept the fact that at least some of them are going to have groove damage no matter what they visually look like, and no amount of cleaning is going to make a record like that sound better.

When I first got back into vinyl a little over a year ago I thought that if I could only do a better job of cleaning then some of these records would sound better. I've learned a lot since then...

--Jerome

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool /img/forum/go_quote.gif I bet the end of your stylus tip is also very dirty after this.

I wouldn't advise putting $20 bucks on that bet!

Distilled vinegar is a mild acid. It dissolves grease and dislodges the gunk and lifts it up out of the grooves. By the time you're rinsing with distilled water, there's nothing left in the grooves, all you're removing is the white vinegar. Since both the cleaning agent and the rinse are distilled, there are no deposits left on the record. Even grimy old thrifters shine like new after this kind of cleaning. Whether or not they crackle or pop depends on the degree of groove damage.

I learned my record cleaning process from Mark Obert-Thorne's old website. He knows a thing or two about records.

See ya
Steve

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif Distilled vinegar is a mild acid. It dissolves grease and dislodges the gunk and lifts it up out of the grooves. By the time you're rinsing with distilled water, there's nothing left in the grooves, all you're removing is the white vinegar. Since both the cleaning agent and the rinse are distilled, there are no deposits left on the record. ....

So do you use Balsamic for Verdi and Windex for Stockhausen?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif Whether or not they crackle or pop depends on the degree of groove damage.

Not necessarily. It could be groove damage and it could be foreign matter stuck in the grooves.

Mark Obert-Thorn specialises in 78s and does all the tranfers for Naxos according to their site. He uses a CEDAR suite. Industry standard. As is the Keith Monks machine which the Lorricraft is based on and has been for decades.

The big copyright archives like the British Library, BBC etc or your Library of Congress all have these kind of machines and until recently they remained very expensive but this is pretty much a non issue now that you can get one from KAB for 160USD.

78s need gentler cleaning and there is certainly an argument to be made for hand cleaning these with bespoke mixtures but for microgroove records commerical solutions are far superior.

 

[bigshot]

MOT transfers LPs for Naxos for the European market. From what I've been told, he doesn't own a record cleaning machine and doesn't see the point in them. If you can clean faster and just as effectively by hand, the only reason to own a machine is if you are a fumble fingered type of person.

See ya
Steve

 

[Sherwood]

I have my wife, who works in the fermentation lab of an alternative fuels lab, mix my cleaning solution based on her lab's analysis of my preferred cleaner. It works a treat, and comes in the best conceivable bottle for this type of process.

It looks something like this.

Does this qualify as commercial, or homemade? I certainly have to pay her back for it, one way or another.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif Does this qualify as commercial, or homemade? I certainly have to pay her back for it, one way or another.

more like industrial espionage

 

[Sherwood]

I bet the fuel she makes would clean a record pretty well, too, and for less than $4 a gallon...

 

[fjf]

This thread clarifies very well why -almost- everybody ran from vinyl to CDs, despite the sweet sound you can get from the old system

 

[fjf]

Oops!

 

[Sherwood]

Well, it's no secret that most people don' care, but any head-fier worth his salt also knows that you get out of your system what you put into it.

Put in time, effort, great music and great media, and you'll have something far greater than what most people get to experience.