Recording Impulse Responses for Speaker Virtualization
Oct 14, 2023 at 9:26 AM Post #1,711 of 1,816
What is the actual channel mapping of a hesuvi file?
Your image shows the correct mapping but this is how his file is already mapped.

@XingYu
A few questions:
EQ-APO is only installed for vb-cable?
VB-cable is your standard device and set to 7.1 and 48kHz?
Does VB-cable only accept multichannel except via KS as pointed out in the previous post?
The topping dac is the device listed in the in the listen to option from VB-cable?
On the topping dac you have deactivated any additional features like windows sonic?
 
Oct 14, 2023 at 8:32 PM Post #1,712 of 1,816
Your config file is strange:
'#' means it is not active. So EQ-APO is doing nothing.

Device: hd800s TOPPING USB DAC {ef1cefd1-6c7d-4a35-b5c6-9f02ec1980c7}
# Include: HeSuVi\hesuvi2 reverb.txt
# Include: F:\Mybrir\0918 800s\HP800.txt
Device: ksc75 TOPPING USB DAC {81d9711e-d8bf-42a6-8d93-96bf68753e0d}
# Include: HeSuVi\hesuvi.txt
# Include: HeSuVi\hesuvi2 reverb.txt
# Include: HeSuVi\hesuviKSC.txt
# Include: F:\Mybrir\0918 800s\HPKsc - 복사본 - 복사본 - 복사본.txt
# Copy: L=L+-0.15*R R=-0.15*L+R
Device: CABLE Input VB-Audio Virtual Cable {17223e4d-87f6-4f95-9d4e-8f2b62e4d96f}
# Preamp: -13 dB
# Include: HeSuVi\hesuvi.txt
# Include: HeSuVi\hesuvi2 reverb.txt

hat is a copy of the config that I am currently using. # appears because I deactivated the files when I wasn't writing them. I know.

Your image shows the correct mapping but this is how his file is already mapped.

Yes. it's not file or hesuvi's problem.

EQ-APO is only installed for vb-cable?
VB and Headphone, I didn't install eqapo at all and tried only VB cable and tested it.

VB-cable is your standard device and set to 7.1 and 48kHz?

Yes. Of course..

Does VB-cable only accept multichannel except via KS as pointed out in the previous post?
I never said that.
I used VB cable, VB hifi with asio, and KS repeater, but it doesn't work.
Then the problem is either the window itself or the VBCable itself. I've already tried the VAC that someone else said.

The topping dac is the device listed in the in the listen to option from VB-cable
Yes

On the topping dac you have deactivated any additional features like windows sonic?
I don't use window sonic things...

Guys... I've already succeeded many times on different PCs with the same settings, the same files. It's not just about setting up
 
Oct 14, 2023 at 11:52 PM Post #1,713 of 1,816
Your image shows the correct mapping but this is how his file is already mapped.

@XingYu
A few questions:
EQ-APO is only installed for vb-cable?
VB-cable is your standard device and set to 7.1 and 48kHz?
Does VB-cable only accept multichannel except via KS as pointed out in the previous post?
The topping dac is the device listed in the in the listen to option from VB-cable?
On the topping dac you have deactivated any additional features like windows sonic?
It's not. Channels after 7 are inverted left to right.
 
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Oct 14, 2023 at 11:53 PM Post #1,714 of 1,816
hat is a copy of the config that I am currently using. # appears because I deactivated the files when I wasn't writing them. I know.



Yes. it's not file or hesuvi's problem.


VB and Headphone, I didn't install eqapo at all and tried only VB cable and tested it.



Yes. Of course..


I never said that.
I used VB cable, VB hifi with asio, and KS repeater, but it doesn't work.
Then the problem is either the window itself or the VBCable itself. I've already tried the VAC that someone else said.


Yes


I don't use window sonic things...

Guys... I've already succeeded many times on different PCs with the same settings, the same files. It's not just about setting up
How do you even set VB-cable to 7.1? I bought all their cables and never saw any option for such...
 
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Oct 14, 2023 at 11:56 PM Post #1,715 of 1,816
Thank you. When I heard your file using heseuvi, all the channel mapping was to the left, and your text file is the same as the previous 7.1 file I used. The center can be heard from behind my back in the same way.
Did you use my text file, with my audio file?

Is your virtual device set to take 7.1 channel input? If not, you needed to enable one of the first two lines, for 5.1 channel or two channel input.
 
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Oct 15, 2023 at 4:16 AM Post #1,716 of 1,816
How do you even set VB-cable to 7.1? I bought all their cables and never saw any option for such...
Window10 Sound Panel, Configure Stereo to 7.1(VB CableInput).

It's not. Channels after 7 are inverted left to right.
I don't remember exactly how your channel sounded. The channels were mixed up. (Of course, thank you for making the file for me.)
Default Hesuvi mapping has 1~14
FL-L , FL-R , SL-L, SL-R, BL-L, BL-R , FC-L , FR-R, FR-L, SR-R, SR-L, BR-R, BR-L, FC-R
 
Oct 15, 2023 at 4:33 AM Post #1,717 of 1,816
hat is a copy of the config that I am currently using. # appears because I deactivated the files when I wasn't writing them. I know.
So this are thee different options you tried. Only the last one is using VB-cable. What is hesuvi2 reverb.txt doing?
VB and Headphone,
With headphone you mean your dac? I would try to just install EQ-APO for VB-cable.
Guys... I've already succeeded many times on different PCs with the same settings, the same files. It's not just about setting up

From what you write VB-cable is working, EQ-APO is working and then somehow in the output only the center channel that not even exists after EQ-APO anymore get processed in way that it sounds like its comes from behind.
It seems to be impossible.
 
Oct 15, 2023 at 4:45 AM Post #1,718 of 1,816
Thanks again to everyone who tried to give me attention and help.
The meaning of MultiChannel to me was that the purpose of routing was greater (I don't watch many MultiChannel sound sources or videos), so I imagined and created it through REW and Audacity. Manually

1.png


This is plot from Impulcifer (Btw, Currently, the test headphones used in the plot are ksc75 of koss, so it is a headphone that lacks bass, so the bass on the left is more compensated. Please refer to it! The Senheiser hd800s I use as the main is much better)


5.png


My stereo response that I've put in as much as I can at the moment. It's already very clear and good.

2.png



3.png


4.png


Decay is very well-managed and it's completely flat balanced so that it doesn't stand out anywhere.
However, there is a limit to the typical stereo single response, and the better the decay in the recorded room, the more information about the deep space is needed. What it gives the music a taste.

So, I tried to create a sense of depth by taking advice from some senior users in Korean communities, combining stereo responses and responses measured at various angles to simulate reflections, and processing them through loopback once again.
This is why I tried to use 7 channels. Because if the multi-channel works normally, routing is very simple without having to combine one by one. But I put every response one by one and tested it because it doesn't work. The total number of test aligns I tried is over 1,000, but I had no choice. And it was worth it.

Here's a rough summary of the configuration
( Front L,R Stereo responses that have already been pushed to the limit )
++++++++
( Surround Responses for Reflect copy)+ (binaural impulse For richer reflexes and late reflection.I manually extracted the difference between the responses occurring in the crosstalk channel in my ear and applied it as a filter to create virtual 4 channels. I also applied the delay in the ear that I know. ) + (Direct Pure BassSound)
=
This is very clear, but it brings me the experience of being in a concert hall.
Usually, when reverb is applied or there is more reflexes, the image becomes blurred or the sound image itself becomes soft. You can see right away that you've applied that effect.
But my current version is very clear.
I can hear the front's response.
But it's very, very rich.
Its not something like applying the reberb of the concert hall things, I'm already in the concert hall.
But my favorite singer comes to me and sings. The singer's actual voice reaches me (direct Front sound). And the reflect sound tell me that this is a real concert hall.
So this goes beyond the experience of all the speakers and headphones and earphones and brir that I've ever experienced and this is just expressed as crazy.

6.png


This is the final response.
After about 100 Hz, you can see the FR warping properly. That's a very natural phenomenon as the reflection sounds are added.
Uncontrolled and controlled reflexes play a different role and we feel the difference.

7.png


The inside of the 20~100ms Reflect sound was also uniformly simulated.

8.png


And this is an impulse with a decay of about 1.4s.
If you use this up to 3.7s, it might be more abundant, but hesuvi itself has a limit of approximately 1.7s, and after 1.4s, Sometimes ticking, ticking, ticking sounds occur.
So I was forced to optimize it and choose 1.4s, which was a very good choice.

9.png


Because I didn't want the bass sound to sound unnecessarily, I created the response by calculating it to mix properly with the bass response on the existing front and the reflection on the surround. In addition, by choosing 50hz crossover as a point, the band below adds direct pure asses, allowing for a more complete, tight, low-pitched experience. I've currently chosen a crossover of 50hz LR48db, but this will have to depend on each personal messurement or Inroom Responsce. Personally, I think up to 24db octaves is fine.
I can raise the XO band of Direct Pure Bass to 100hz, but I already set it to 50hz because I am satisfied with my Bass.

10.png


You can see a very rich and wide RT60.
But this applies only to reflect sound. I'm already listening to direct sounds (approximately 150-200ms RT60).
That RT60 explains the space I hear and feel.

11.png


It's a directional spectrogram that everyone can imagine, but you can't get it easily in the in-room.
I'm very happy with the current sound and finished testing with ksc75, and the moment I heard this with hd800s, it really gave me goosebumps.
I personally like Ariana Grande, and I watched her music and videos.
She wasn't playing music to me anymore.
He invited me to the concert hall and sang a song right in front of me for me, the only audience in that large space.
It's really shocking and I'm very satisfied.

Now, I don't know if it's a problem with vbcable or window os, but if it's solved on my PC (other PCs work), I think I'll be able to have a more fun experience while watching a sound source with a spatial sound of Apple or a 7.1ch movie.
Thanks for read.
 
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Oct 15, 2023 at 4:45 AM Post #1,719 of 1,816
It's not. Channels after 7 are inverted left to right.

Sorry I did not see that in your image you mixed up left and right after channel 7.

#[L-l L-r LS-l LS-r LB-l Lb-r C-l R-r R-l RS-r RS-l RB-r RB-l C-r ] Hesuvi
#[1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 ]
#[L-l L-r R-l R-r C-l C-r S-l S-r LS-l LS-r Rs-l Rs-r LB-l Lb-r RB-l RB-r ] usual
 
Oct 15, 2023 at 4:56 AM Post #1,720 of 1,816
Sorry I did not see that in your image you mixed up left and right after channel 7.

#[L-l L-r LS-l LS-r LB-l Lb-r C-l R-r R-l RS-r RS-l RB-r RB-l C-r ] Hesuvi
#[1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 ]
#[L-l L-r R-l R-r C-l C-r S-l S-r LS-l LS-r Rs-l Rs-r LB-l Lb-r RB-l RB-r ] usual
https://sourceforge.net/p/hesuvi/wiki/How-To Record Impulse Responses Digitally/

The picture came from there.

But, as it turns out, it said in step 25 to swap stereo channels down there.
 
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Oct 15, 2023 at 4:59 AM Post #1,721 of 1,816
So this are thee different options you tried. Only the last one is using VB-cable. What is hesuvi2 reverb.txt doing?

With headphone you mean your dac? I would try to just install EQ-APO for VB-cable.


From what you write VB-cable is working, EQ-APO is working and then somehow in the output only the center channel that not even exists after EQ-APO anymore get processed in way that it sounds like its comes from behind.
It seems to be impossible.
I don't know how to program or vbcable or APO work excactly, but Other PCs work fine. =(
With headphone you mean your dac? I would try to just install EQ-APO for VB-cable.
Yes already i did. Also, I installed APO and tested only VBcable. (When reinstalling window10 os over hundreds of times)
 
Oct 15, 2023 at 5:27 AM Post #1,722 of 1,816
Oct 15, 2023 at 8:56 AM Post #1,723 of 1,816
It seems that the gold standard for WINDOWS is HeSuVi plus Equalizer APO. I'm looking for MAC equivalents. I have TDR NOVA (the free version), and there is also a pay version called TDR NOVA GE. Is TDR NOVA the equivalent of Equalizer APO? What I liked about SoundSource is that it had the Harman Curve set-up for my headphones. I tried doing the same set-up with TDR NOVA and it wasn't quite the same. Can I import Oratory 1990's EQ presets to TDR NOVA? And if this is so, how do I import the EMS (I am technologically challenged). This would solve the issue with the Harman curve. I like SoundSource because of the convenience of the EQ presets. But I would like to leave SoundSource because it doesn't recognize multi-channel plug ins.

I'm also looking for a MAC equivalent of HeSuVi.

I am not looking for any hardware.
 
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Oct 15, 2023 at 7:11 PM Post #1,724 of 1,816

I have SoundSource. This is what appeared for Audio channel handling:

SupportSoundSource
Instructions for: AirfoilAudio HijackFarragoFissionLoopbackPiezoSoundSource
Audio channel handling in SoundSource​

Generally speaking, Rogue Amoeba’s applications use stereo audio pipelines, rather than multi-channel audio formats such as 5.1 surround sound or Dolby Atmos.
SoundSource will apply volume adjustments and effects to audio being played to the default stereo channels of the Mac’s default audio output device. Audio sent by an application to upper output channels is not captured or adjusted by SoundSource.
To play your Mac's audio to alternate channels of multi-channel output devices, use Audio MIDI Setup, which you can access via the Options (Gear) menu in SoundSource, in theSystem section.

Using the Audio Devices window in Audio MIDI Setup, select your output device, then click the Configure Speakers button. Adjust the Left and Right Channel pop-up menus to select the desired channels.

******

What I would like to know is if I can download a multi-channel source and put in in my Audio MIDI Setup on my Mac, and play it through SoundSource without it turning into stereo. Keep in mind that I am technologically challenge
 
Oct 16, 2023 at 3:11 AM Post #1,725 of 1,816
Is TDR NOVA the equivalent of Equalizer APO?
No, in fact as far as EQ processors go, they’re about as different as you can get. TDR Nova is a mastering dynamic EQ plugin. In other words, it’s a sort of combined EQ+Compressor, although it can be used with the dynamics section bypassed and therefore used like a conventional EQ.
Can I import Oratory 1990's EQ presets to TDR NOVA?
As far as I’m aware, no you can’t. TDR Nova is not designed for that type of application. The free version has 4 bands, while the EQ compensation presets for headphones require up to 10 bands.
I'm also looking for a MAC equivalent of HeSuVi.
Mac has a built-in feature (Spatial Audio) that’s basic functionality is somewhat similar to what HeSuVi does but there’s little you can do to customise it. There are specific binaural plugins for MAC but the only ones I know of are designed for professional use in DAWs (and are paid). There may well be some decent free ones but haven’t looked.
Keep in mind that I am technologically challenge
Then I might have lost you. I’ve tried to keep it as simple as possible but TDR Nova is quite a sophisticated tool and not designed for consumer use.

G
 

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