[tlite]

Is there a baseline of equipment (amp, headphones, etc.) that is required to adequately audition DACs? Any recommended equipment or test methodology?

Awhile ago I posted this thread about whether or not most people thought they could hear a difference between DACs. I could not with the two DACs I had at the time (Dragonfly Red and iFi ZenDac v2).

Given the quantity of affirmative responses and good information in that thread, I'm wondering whether to better hear differences I need to use different gear or a different methodology?

I just bought a Denafrips Ares II, and last night was comparing it to an iFi ZenDac v2.

DACs were connected via unbalanced RCA outs to a passive RCA switch so I could A/B. Then amped through a Schiit Magni 3+ (I also have a Bottlehead Crack but haven't tried that amp with the DACs yet- maybe that would make a difference?). Source isa PC running VoiceMeeter Banana (ASIO) to output Qobuz CD-quality audio through two of the PC's USB ports, which I then ran to the DACs.

I listened and compared the DACs using these headphones: Sennheiser HD6XX, Audeze LCD-2, ZMF Atticus.

I figured those two DACs would sound quite different given the R2R vs. DS topology, but sheesh... I still don't think I hear differences. I don't love the idea that my ears just aren't up to snuff! Is my test equipment not revealing enough to hear a difference? (Or maybe those two DACs have a similar sound signature?)

What do you folks who successfully compare and contrast DACs recommend in terms of baseline gear to use to compare DACs? Any tips?

Thanks!

 

[Stevko]

Nothing wrong with your ears.
All new dacs sound good.
It is hard to find a bad one
Stop hunting dacs.enjoy your music.
Zen,E30 and modi is great.
I bougt a Rotel RDG in 2020 for 100usd. Sound fantastic

 

[carbonF1]

I think the way you’re going about it is fine. Only thing I can really suggest is not to A/B too quickly. When I do this it makes me fatigued.

IMO Magni is the bottleneck and you’ll see a noticeable improvement adding the BH Crack into the chain, making the comparison easier. I could only imagine how good a R2R DAC is with it. Also, if the Ares is fresh from the factory, I know Denafrips burns them in about 100hrs before it gets sent out but I would add a couple of weeks for your brain to adjust and maybe some additional burn in. Wait a little longer before doing the A/B if possible.

 

[chaturanga]

Is there a baseline of equipment (amp, headphones, etc.) that is required to adequately audition DACs? Any recommended equipment or test methodology?

Awhile ago I posted this thread about whether or not most people thought they could hear a difference between DACs. I could not with the two DACs I had at the time (Dragonfly Red and iFi ZenDac v2).

Given the quantity of affirmative responses and good information in that thread, I'm wondering whether to better hear differences I need to use different gear or a different methodology?

I just bought a Denafrips Ares II, and last night was comparing it to an iFi ZenDac v2.

DACs were connected via unbalanced RCA outs to a passive RCA switch so I could A/B. Then amped through a Schiit Magni 3+ (I also have a Bottlehead Crack but haven't tried that amp with the DACs yet- maybe that would make a difference?). Source isa PC running VoiceMeeter Banana (ASIO) to output Qobuz CD-quality audio through two of the PC's USB ports, which I then ran to the DACs.

I listened and compared the DACs using these headphones: Sennheiser HD6XX, Audeze LCD-2, ZMF Atticus.

I figured those two DACs would sound quite different given the R2R vs. DS topology, but sheesh... I still don't think I hear differences. I don't love the idea that my ears just aren't up to snuff! Is my test equipment not revealing enough to hear a difference? (Or maybe those two DACs have a similar sound signature?)

What do you folks who successfully compare and contrast DACs recommend in terms of baseline gear to use to compare DACs? Any tips?

Thanks!

Today most DACs have a good average quality and you will not hear a huge difference of course. So overall presentation will be very similar but you should focus on small details I think. And you must use the tracks that you know perfectly,

For example take a track and focus only a certain part of it (for example a part of track that a background instrument comes in) then play that part with different DACs back and forth and I think you will catch some different presentation between DACs. (For example how effortless you are able to follow that background instrument, or try to focus tonality of human voices or instruments)

And of course try to listen at equal volume as much as you can do. And it will be better if there is no other audibile sound around in the room.

Your equipment is good enough I think.

And one other thing is, I think a closed back headphone will be better to catch differences, just my idea.

 

[theveterans]

Is there a baseline of equipment (amp, headphones, etc.) that is required to adequately audition DACs? Any recommended equipment or test methodology?

Awhile ago I posted this thread about whether or not most people thought they could hear a difference between DACs. I could not with the two DACs I had at the time (Dragonfly Red and iFi ZenDac v2).

Given the quantity of affirmative responses and good information in that thread, I'm wondering whether to better hear differences I need to use different gear or a different methodology?

I just bought a Denafrips Ares II, and last night was comparing it to an iFi ZenDac v2.

DACs were connected via unbalanced RCA outs to a passive RCA switch so I could A/B. Then amped through a Schiit Magni 3+ (I also have a Bottlehead Crack but haven't tried that amp with the DACs yet- maybe that would make a difference?). Source isa PC running VoiceMeeter Banana (ASIO) to output Qobuz CD-quality audio through two of the PC's USB ports, which I then ran to the DACs.

I listened and compared the DACs using these headphones: Sennheiser HD6XX, Audeze LCD-2, ZMF Atticus.

I figured those two DACs would sound quite different given the R2R vs. DS topology, but sheesh... I still don't think I hear differences. I don't love the idea that my ears just aren't up to snuff! Is my test equipment not revealing enough to hear a difference? (Or maybe those two DACs have a similar sound signature?)

What do you folks who successfully compare and contrast DACs recommend in terms of baseline gear to use to compare DACs? Any tips?

Thanks!

I hear the difference between DACs more pronouncely on a SET headphone amp than through a solid-state amplifier. Try borrowing a good SET headphone amp such as the Woo WA6 SE or equivalent and then A/B the DACs with Goldpoint SA2X stepped attenuator

 

[tlite]

I hear the difference between DACs more pronouncely on a SET headphone amp than through a solid-state amplifier. Try borrowing a good SET headphone amp such as the Woo WA6 SE or equivalent and then A/B the DACs with Goldpoint SA2X stepped attenuator

Cool- buddy of mine has a Pendant. I can try that- also even though it isn't SET I do have an OTL Bottlehead Crack I need to try. I'm now going through an RNHP which is more revealing than the Magni 3+. I'm still in the category where I'm like, "I 'think' I hear a difference, maybe..."

 

[gregorio]

Given the quantity of affirmative responses and good information in that thread, I'm wondering whether to better hear differences I need to use different gear or a different methodology?

Different gear will typically not make any difference, different methodology certainly will. Here are some methodology tips which will allow you to “better hear differences”:

1. Don’t use double blind testing. Single blind testing can work but fully sighted testing is definitely best.

2. If you’re accurately volume matching, then don’t. Not volume matching at all is usually best but volume matching by ear is also very effective.

3. Don’t quick switch when testing. Allowing at least several mins or longer between switches works well but hours or days is typically even better.

4. Using different test songs/tracks for each DAC works very well. If you do you use the same song to test both, try to make sure one is tested with a different version/master of that song.

5. Read the manufacturer’s explanation of why one DAC is so good. Make sure you also read all the testimonials and independent audiophile reviews/impressions of that DAC. Make sure you try to believe at least some of what you’re reading (some is usually enough).

6. Try to focus more intently when listening to the DAC with the best visual appearance, highest price, better brand name or which you think you’ll like more.

There are several other methodology tips but any one (or combination) of the above would give you a good chance of hearing the differences many others hear.

G

 

[The Jester]

Cool- buddy of mine has a Pendant. I can try that- also even though it isn't SET I do have an OTL Bottlehead Crack I need to try. I'm now going through an RNHP which is more revealing than the Magni 3+. I'm still in the category where I'm like, "I 'think' I hear a difference, maybe..."

Maybe consider a DIY switchbox, just a few RCA sockets and a DPDT toggle switch that’ll switch the signal and ground connections, that removes any possibility of ground plane sharing between the two DAC’s.

 

[tlite]

Different gear will typically not make any difference, different methodology certainly will. Here are some methodology tips which will allow you to “better hear differences”:

1. Don’t use double blind testing. Single blind testing can work but fully sighted testing is definitely best.

2. If you’re accurately volume matching, then don’t. Not volume matching at all is usually best but volume matching by ear is also very effective.

3. Don’t quick switch when testing. Allowing at least several mins or longer between switches works well but hours or days is typically even better.

4. Using different test songs/tracks for each DAC works very well. If you do you use the same song to test both, try to make sure one is tested with a different version/master of that song.

5. Read the manufacturer’s explanation of why one DAC is so good. Make sure you also read all the testimonials and independent audiophile reviews/impressions of that DAC. Make sure you try to believe at least some of what you’re reading (some is usually enough).

6. Try to focus more intently when listening to the DAC with the best visual appearance, highest price, better brand name or which you think you’ll like more.

There are several other methodology tips but any one (or combination) of the above would give you a good chance of hearing the differences many others hear.

G

That was pretty good.

 

[tlite]

OP here with an update. I got to a point where I now can hear a difference between at least two DACs...

If it helps anyone else trying to get an A/B setup

I bought a ONE Little Bear MC103 pro, and am running a WiiM streamer through an optical Toslink splitter between a Denafrips Ares II and a Geshelli J2 into a Geshelli E2. The Little Bear allows me to switch balanced inputs on the fly into the E2.

Good, bad, or indifferent- definitely at a point where I hear it. Subtle, but it's there.

 

[orca1993]

OP here with an update. I got to a point where I now can hear a difference between at least two DACs...

If it helps anyone else trying to get an A/B setup

I bought a ONE Little Bear MC103 pro, and am running a WiiM streamer through an optical Toslink splitter between a Denafrips Ares II and a Geshelli J2 into a Geshelli E2. The Little Bear allows me to switch balanced inputs on the fly into the E2.

Good, bad, or indifferent- definitely at a point where I hear it. Subtle, but it's there.

I use a Kitsune SU-2 ddc with outputs to s/pdif, I2s, bnc, aes all active at the same time. That way I have the same source, Preamp, amplifier and speakers for each dac. It is just an input switch on the preamp to move between dacs. Right now I have a Berkeley Alpha on bnc and aes, LKS MH-DA003 on I2s and s/pdif. The differences are quite stark. The LKS is clear to harsh in the treble while the berkeley has a deep and wide soundstage. Very clearly different.

 

[tlite]

I use a Kitsune SU-2 ddc with outputs to s/pdif, I2s, bnc, aes all active at the same time. That way I have the same source, Preamp, amplifier and speakers for each dac. It is just an input switch on the preamp to move between dacs. Right now I have a Berkeley Alpha on bnc and aes, LKS MH-DA003 on I2s and s/pdif. The differences are quite stark. The LKS is clear to harsh in the treble while the berkeley has a deep and wide soundstage. Very clearly different.

That's a great setup for testing. Thanks!

 

[winnor]

Compare DACS with ROON sync ZONE.

Set different DACs as synchronized ZONE devices, each DAC plays the same synchronized track, and use the ROON CONTRAL APP on the cell phone to switch between different ZONEs.

 

[tlite]

Compare DACS with ROON sync ZONE.

Set different DACs as synchronized ZONE devices, each DAC plays the same synchronized track, and use the ROON CONTRAL APP on the cell phone to switch between different ZONEs.

Cool! I have been wanting an excuse to try Roon- that's a great idea.

 

[winnor]

Cool! I have been wanting an excuse to try Roon- that's a great idea.

I installed ROON on 2012 MAC MIN, MAC MINI has 4 USB port principle can be connected to 4 DAC (ZONE), I usually connect 2 DAC synchronization A/B comparison.

Have fun.