[mattstrike]

Hi all,
I am new to the forums - so far I have found some great information, so thanks for that!
I am considering purchasing a CA 840c (I have demo'd it with my 640a v.1 and really loved the sound) - however I noticed various companies offering modifications to the capacitors, power supply, etc.. While pricey, does anyone own a modded 840c or listened to one? Are these upgrades snake-oil or do they really offer more musicality, and as I read on one mod site "true balanced" out? (Money not being an obstacle (hypothetically), I would most likely be upgrading to an amp/pre-amp so I can take full advantage of the balanced outs on the 840c.)
I apologize if this has already been discussed, but I can't find a specific thread. I also apologize for not being extremely tech-oriented - I don't want to offend the more versed Head-Fi members.
Anyway, any advice in this specific area would be appreciated - I look forward to a fruitful experience on the forums!
Cheers,
Matt

 

[ninjapixie]

I haven't heard a modded-840c but considering how much these mods cost, unless they turn the 840c into a +$3k player, you're almost better off going with a more expensive player.

I remember looking at the ebay site with all the mods and was pretty skeptical considering you have to send your player in (I have trust issues).

 

[308med]

I'm planning on getting an 840c and planning on upgrading with a Zapfilter and a new clock. I can't really quantify in words what these upgrades will do (I'm not even sold yet on if I will 100% want/need them) since I haven't listened to the 840c for an extended period of time don't (obviously) have an 840c with the upgrades listed. My decision so far has basically been based upon the advice of another headfier.

 

[Bazile]

Hi Folks,

I have a CI dac that sounds pretty darn good in my bedroom gear. I replaced it in my main system with an unmodded 840C that admittedly sounds better. (I do listen to it balanced). I have not heard a modded 840c, but let me encourage you to hear it unmodded first. That one try might save a lot of money.

Bazile

 

[mattstrike]

Thanks for the input so far -
I would definitely not mod it w/o giving it a good amount of listening with my current gear... and yeah, ninjapixie, I am not so keen on the fact that you have to send your unit in for the mods (Reference Audio Mods, ASI-Tek, etc.) - however I don't have the necessary experience to crack the case and dive in myself.
Without some definitive opinions from people that actually own a modded 840c, I wouldn't drop the coin. It is unfortunate that it seems like you can't demo a stock unit vs. a modded one, since there are no retail locations. (If someone knows of one in the Phila-NY area, well let me know.)

Cheers.

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bazile /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi Folks, I have a CI dac that sounds pretty darn good in my bedroom gear. I replaced it in my main system with an unmodded 840C that admittedly sounds better.

Which CI DAC (VDA1, VDA2) and did you have the VAC-1 outboard PS?

It would also help to know which transport you were using with the CI DAC and in what ways was 840C better..

 

[Bazile]

Fair enough,

I have a VDA-2 with the Vac-1 power supply. Either Dac connects to two Lunch Box II's as a balanced amp. I listen with an HD-580 using a modified HD-650 cable.
The 840c is fed from the variable digital out of a Squeezebox 3. The volume is controlled here. The stream to the Squeezebox are Flacs.

The differences I hear between the 2 Dacs is mainly resolution, with just a little better tonality. Each instrument gained a little space between it and the next instrument while breathing patterns and fingering got easier to hear. For some reason, following string bass or bass guitar lines got much easier. Piano trills with the 840c are just a bit cleaner, and sound very realistic.

The 840c sounded better enough to replace the CI Dac in my main setup, and to make the swap win/win, I paired the CI dac with a CI amp and now have a nice bedroom setup. Note the 840c costs twice what the Channel Islands does. It sounds better to me, but only a little better, not 2x.

Bazile

 

[Know Talent]

the best mod is audiogon...and save for a Bryston BCD-100, Creek Destiny or Primare CD31 (or whatever else)

If you have a properly functioning CDP, clock upgrades are the biggest PT Barnum show in town (right next to power cords)

 

[Pars]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Know Talent /img/forum/go_quote.gif the best mod is audiogon...and save for a Bryston BCD-100, Creek Destiny or Primare CD31 (or whatever else) If you have a properly functioning CDP, clock upgrades are the biggest PT Barnum show in town (right next to power cords)

My experience has been different. Rotel RCD855 with Tentlabs XO on modified PFM Flea regulator, powered by Tread board and separate transformer. TDA1541a DAC clocked directly from XO /2. Connections to SAA7220 and TDA1541a via RG179 coax. Made a rather large difference for the better, exhibited by much more solid bass and smoother high end. Bettered in terms of improvement only by discrete output stage. I haven't noticed you providing any details of what you did/had done, or what you are basing your opinion on...

 

[PWilson]

I'm unsure a clock mod is really worthwhile on an 840C. Part of its upsampling and DSP routine (the main reason you're buying a more expensive 840 over a 640 in the first place) is that it does jitter reduction in the processing.

 

[Know Talent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pars /img/forum/go_quote.gif My experience has been different. Rotel RCD855 with Tentlabs XO on modified PFM Flea regulator, powered by Tread board and separate transformer. TDA1541a DAC clocked directly from XO /2. Connections to SAA7220 and TDA1541a via RG179 coax. Made a rather large difference for the better, exhibited by much more solid bass and smoother high end. Bettered in terms of improvement only by discrete output stage. I haven't noticed you providing any details of what you did/had done, or what you are basing your opinion on...

I had an Arcam FMJ CD23 with Audicom Level II upgrade....UltraClock with dedicated power supply, upgraded main power supply..caps, diodes, etc... new caps and opamps in the output stage, etc... the full monty.
And the difference was very subtle if anything like what I was told to expect. Pure Hype IMO.
Due to the age of the player my friend told me that replacing the caps could revitalize the unit to a certain degree but all else (assuming the player was designed correctly from the start) was probably a waste of cash vs. selling the unit and investing in a better CDP with better design architecture to start with.

I now a much more expensive tubed output player that absolutely smokes the arcam in every way.

People talk about modding the outputs by installing transformers that up the output voltage...I'm no electrical expert but it seems to me adding volume is a conveinent way to muddy the waters regarding gaining "better" detail and resolution???

maybe I'm just overly suspicious, but after laying out $2000 for a popcorn fart difference after being told "the sky is going to open up and birds will sing, etc..." I now am more leary of the glowing reviews claiming sonic ephiphanies.

 

[Pars]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Know Talent /img/forum/go_quote.gif I had an Arcam FMJ CD23 with Audicom Level II upgrade....UltraClock with dedicated power supply, upgraded main power supply..caps, diodes, etc... new caps and opamps in the output stage, etc... the full monty. And the difference was very subtle if anything like what I was told to expect. Pure Hype IMO. Due to the age of the player my friend told me that replacing the caps could revitalize the unit to a certain degree but all else (assuming the player was designed correctly from the start) was probably a waste of cash vs. selling the unit and investing in a better CDP with better design architecture to start with. I now a much more expensive tubed output player that absolutely smokes the arcam in every way. People talk about modding the outputs by installing transformers that up the output voltage...I'm no electrical expert but it seems to me adding volume is a conveinent way to muddy the waters regarding gaining "better" detail and resolution??? maybe I'm just overly suspicious, but after laying out $2000 for a popcorn fart difference after being told "the sky is going to open up and birds will sing, etc..." I now am more leary of the glowing reviews claiming sonic ephiphanies.

I can see your point looking at the price of that mod. I'm not sure what sort of rep Audiocom has. At any rate, thats a lot of money.

Regarding the output transformers, these are typically used with a passive output conversion, where the transformer and an I/V resistor are used. They are not designed to increase the output voltage.

 

[Ross]

I tend to agree that mods can make a very subtle difference. I had the output stage of a mid-level Sony ES player modded a few years ago, and the difference was trivial.

On the other hand, I currently have an 840C and it is the best CD player I have heard at any price. I have owned a Meridian 508.24, Naim CDS2 and CD5, Accuphase DP-67 and a bunch of other high end players/DACs, and the 840C smokes them all. It sounds so good in stock form I really don't think it is worth the cost or risk to modify it.

 

[mattstrike]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross /img/forum/go_quote.gif I tend to agree that mods can make a very subtle difference. I had the output stage of a mid-level Sony ES player modded a few years ago, and the difference was trivial. On the other hand, I currently have an 840C and it is the best CD player I have heard at any price. I have owned a Meridian 508.24, Naim CDS2 and CD5, Accuphase DP-67 and a bunch of other high end players/DACs, and the 840C smokes them all. It sounds so good in stock form I really don't think it is worth the cost or risk to modify it.

Ross, I think your answer was the one I was waiting to hear... heh.
Thanks again to all for weighing in...

 

[Happy Camper]

You guys are killing me. Just when the 840 gets off the front pages and out of my mind, you start the itch all over again. Stop!!!!!!