[janx]

You havent mentioned your budget,and if you did I missed it,so...

Lots of informed members are suggesting a better amp for the HD650. Its been my experience that the HD650 needs some juice. Theyre not difficult to drive per se,but moreso than a 32 ohm 103 sensitivity headphone designed for mobile use.

If amping is indeed the issue you can forget ZMF headphones which have similar specs as your HD650. ZMF is the obvious choice here,but theyre probably more than you want to spend.

You might look into the Meze 99 Classic. Bass for days. Easy to drive as well,but they dont have a huge stage.

Another option is one the Fidelio X headphones. Wide stage and strong bass,but lack the mids of the 650.

Thanks, I will take a look at those!

The budget should be below 300$, better around 150-200

 

[Monsterzero]

Thanks, I will take a look at those!

The budget should be below 300$, better around 150-200

Both Fidelio X2 and 99 Classics are at or near that budget. Buying used can save you some cash.

Both can be driven from a mobile phone,so amping wont be an issue with either one.

 

[janx]

Still have very serious doubts, very serious doubts that it can adequately drive the HD650. I have used many smallish portable devices and currently have a Q5s which has guaranteed as death and taxes better amplification sections in the amp modules I have than in your phone and I would not consider my amp modules as optimum at all for something like the HD650. The DAC chip has virtually nothing to do with anything related to amplification in terms of what you are discussing. Until you test with a proper amp, doesn't have to be a power house, but certainly something like 55-100mW at 300ohm is worth comparing against. Volume is not an adequate test of whether or not something is being driven optimally. Try to find out what that TI chip puts out as configured in your phone. I'll be shocked if it is above 15mW into 300ohms. That doesn't even take into account the dynamic nature of a load so again, you should have very little to no confidence that your phone is providing the type of amplification that you need to evaluate what the HD650 actually brings to the table. Just IMO, nothing more, nothing less.

I actually just checked. It is 10mW/300 Ohm for the dongle and probably 14mW for the phone (LG G7 value). Many reviewer compared the phone sound quality with expensive DACs and think differences are negligible. Also the guy from audiosciencereview mentioned that the dongle (meizu pro hifi dac) is fine for HD650 (and he also thinks it is fine for Hifiman HE400 btw). I personally also compared the 58x with 650 and in my opinion they sound nearly identical (except for the well known differences) which also confirms my guess. Therefore I think investing in expensive equipment will likely not be of much help. Also I don't like to listen loud anyway (my ears are pretty sensitive when listenting too long loud). Volume level is mostly only at 30%.

But as soon as I get the chance to test another equipment I would love to try it out. You might be right that there is room for improvement.

Edit:
For the phone it says OPA1612 btw.

But apart from that, the topic should actually be more about headphones that show different charachteristics and not about amplificaton

 

[Sonic Defender]

I actually just checked. It is 10mW/300 Ohm for the dongle and probably 14mW for the phone (LG G7 value). Many reviewer compared the phone sound quality with expensive DACs and think differences are negligible. Also the guy from audiosciencereview mentioned that the dongle (meizu pro hifi dac) is fine for HD650 (and he also thinks it is fine for Hifiman HE400 btw). I personally also compared the 58x with 650 and in my opinion they sound nearly identical (except for the well known differences) which also confirms my guess. Therefore I think investing in expensive equipment will likely not be of much help. Also I don't like to listen loud anyway (my ears are pretty sensitive when listenting too long loud). Volume level is mostly only at 30%.

But as soon as I get the chance to test another equipment I would love to try it out. You might be right that there is room for improvement.

Edit:
For the phone it says OPA1612 btw.

But apart from that, the topic should actually be more about headphones that show different charachteristics and not about amplificaton

Fair enough that you want to discuss headphones as opposed to amplification. For the record I rarely recommend expensive equipment, and that would not have been what I would have suggested for you. I like the previous suggestions of the Meze 99 Classic or the Fidelio X2/X3 as well as the Sony Z7/Z72. I also do feel that if you want more weight and impact at quieter volume a closed headphone is the better choice, typically. Good luck, but yes, do compare the HD650 with other amps, but if you listen at quiet levels I do suspect the differences will be inaudible anyway. Sounds like you have a good handle on what you want/need so good luck and please let the thread followers know what you decide upon. Cheers.

 

[janx]

Great recommendations, thanks. Will look deeper into those. Fidelio X3 might be interesting but seems to be not released yet. The Meze 99 neo looks also interesting for below 200$, but probably not a good soundstage because of closed back...?

 

[Sonic Defender]

Great recommendations, thanks. Will look deeper into those. Fidelio X3 might be interesting but seems to be not released yet. The Meze 99 neo looks also interesting for below 200$, but probably not a good soundstage because of closed back...?

Yes and no. I agree that in general you lose some stage with closed back, but it isn't typically as problematic as some suggest. You also may need to decide what is more important, increasing bass weight/slam/impact at the expense of some stage or retaining stage and making modest gains in low end weight. All designs have compromises which I am sure you know.

 

[janx]

Yes and no. I agree that in general you lose some stage with closed back, but it isn't typically as problematic as some suggest. You also may need to decide what is more important, increasing bass weight/slam/impact at the expense of some stage or retaining stage and making modest gains in low end weight. All designs have compromises which I am sure you know.

I guess you are right. Just watched the guy from superreview and he said he was positively surprised by the soundstage of the Meze 99.

Actually I am already pretty sure this will not be my last headphone and I still need a good closed back anyway.

The Philips X2 seems also interesting while I don't really like the design. I might get the Meze first and if it ends up having too much bass (which I doubt but who knows) I might give the X2 (or then x3 - it looks already really nice) a chance.

But will read about all those first anyway

 

[Monsterzero]

All designs have compromises which I am sure you know.

This!
Most headphones wont give you each and every aspect youre after,unless you increase your budget substantially,and even then theres always a give and take.

I have a yet-to-be-released prototype closed back here in my home from Dobler Studios. These have a wider and slightly deeper stage than the Meze 99s. Theyre also warmer sounding than the 99s. Theyre tuned more neutrally than the 99s so the bass isnt as prominent as the Meze.

Thru my son's DAP they both hit hard,but through a Magni/Modi the bass went back to a more neutral presentation.

More info

https://doblerstudio.com/

 

[janx]

Little update, I ordered now the Fidelio X2HR for below 127€ from Amazon.fr

X3 might be the nicer one but the forst months it will likely be more than twoce the price.

So I guess it is a good choice.

Thanks a lot for your help!

 

[Sonic Defender]

Great, look forward to your impressions. I owned the Onkyo A800, quite similar and I had the X2 on hand for some time. You will be gaining weight and impact down low, and certainly more high end, but the HD650 will likely feel to be the more polished/musical sounding of the bunch, but of course with the caveats that you have noted. It will be interesting to hear your impressions for certain.

 

[janx]

Great, look forward to your impressions. I owned the Onkyo A800, quite similar and I had the X2 on hand for some time. You will be gaining weight and impact down low, and certainly more high end, but the HD650 will likely feel to be the more polished/musical sounding of the bunch, but of course with the caveats that you have noted. It will be interesting to hear your impressions for certain.

Sure, will report

 

[janx]

Sure, will report

I have the X2 now here for about a week and wanted to share my impressions compared to HD650:

- stonger bass
- more bass
- deeper bass
- wider soundstage
- feels more dynamic
- apart from bass still pretty neutral
- sometimes a bit too much bass (depending on song, songs I found to have the right amount of bass with hd650 had now too much, songs with before too little felt now right)
- voices in direct comparison a bit more recessed
- treble overall good but sometimes a bit metallic, like there would be some peak at some higher frequency
- this made also sound some trebles occasionally a bit grainy
- this "grainyness" was only aufible with very few songs though
- guitar on the other hand sound great
- great separation
- wide soundstage but not particularly deep
- sounded like every instrument had really their own position

I could live with the frequency responce with most songs but overall I would have preferred about -2 or -3 db below 125hz and maybe +3db around 500hz

Feels always when using it much less boring and more engaging than 650

Overall impression is that a mix of the performance for voices and evenness/resolution for highs of the 650, compared with the wide stage/imaging and bass of the X2 plus a bit deeper stage would probably the perfect combination for me.

Since I read that the Meze has even more bass I guess it is good I did not get them.

For me it is a really great addition and currently I like it better than the 650 although I am aware that the x2 is better in several aspects.

So thanks for the recommendation!

I guess it is a great addition to the 650.

Now the question is, which headphone combines those strengths

 

[janx]

Ah, and two other things:

They are EXTREMLY well build, and very comfortable.

And I can listen to them longer than with the 650s, but I guess the reason for that is that I increased the 650's volume usually highe to get enough bass response.

Biggest weakness is probably the highs that could be sometimes better resolving. Nut no 100% sure abou that yet

 

[bzippy]

Sounds like you're on a good path toward your goal. That's great -- I'm glad to hear it.

But I'm really just popping in to support SonDef's amp comments (even though I know you don't want to hear it -- sorry). I have been loving my HD600's since I got them 6 years ago, but have always been disappointed in the relatively weak low end. I initially resisted all talk of amps, opting to drive them just with my Dap. But it wasn't long before I gave in and got a decent portable amp to feed it. Though I still had to use the amp's bass boost, I was convinced the overall sound was better than my DAP alone and felt confident that I was getting the most out of them. That lasted until my curiosity about REAL amps got the best of me last year and I decided to try some entry level desktop amps (specifically the Schiit Magni 3 and the JDS Atom -- both are just $100). Well you probably know where this is going. It was a revelation, no exaggeration. I can't even exactly say what was better about this new sound, it just felt different, with more more realism, more 3D life, easier to pinpoint & isolate individual instruments, and yes even a little more low end. I can't say i don't still eq a bit more bass sometimes, but it's way less often. I feel like I'm finally hearing my 600's for what they truly are.

I mean, i know this doesn't help your need for portability, but maybe don't pass up the chance to plug your 650's into a proper amp if the opportunity ever arises.

 

[janx]

Thanks a lot for your view and your experience concerning the amp thing. I will definitely look into this soon. Also curious to find out if I'm missing out on something there