[yammy451]

Hello all, I recently built a pc aimed at gaming and enjoying my large selection of music. My last pc I used my Sennheiser HD650's with a cheap Creative Labs X-FI sound card, I still have my HD650s but this time around I threw in pair of Yamaha HS5s for good measure. I haven't added a sound card yet, was going to ask you guys for some recommendations. The budget is between $90.00-175.00, of course I'd rather not hit the ceiling of my budget unless the product will actually make my hardware sound all the better. As of right now the HS5s are picking up a lot of EMI distortion from the mobo and it's becoming quite annoying. So I'm asking, sound card or external DAC? Which one would be decent for the budget?? And would it kill the EMI from getting to the speakers??
 
Thanks in advance,
 
Yammy

 

[billybob_jcv]

Your "EMI" could be a ground loop. You might want to try using a 3-prong to 2-prong AC adapter on the speakers. Costs less than $1/ea at Home Depot.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-15-Amp-Gray-Polarized-Grounding-Adapter-R55-00274-0GY/100356839

 

[Godsson]

I can offer you valuable advice.
I was not entirely in the same situation, but I did have a conundrum with my equator d5's and my old laptop and current desktop.
An external DAC will be connected by usb and therefor can still produce the buzz. (my o2/odac).
Be especially careful with your cables, they can also pick up EMI. 
 
If you can find a soundcard without annoying drivers it's the cheapest route. 

 

[yammy451]

right now the HS5s are powered by a Rosewill surge protector that was designed to prevent EMI, however that doesn't mean thats not where its coming from.
I considered the Creative Labs Z card, has a headphone amp. But some of my research has shown that an externa DAC may provide better sound and absolutely no EMI.

 

[Za Warudo]

My dad's computer also has a buzzing background noise with a JBL LSR305 connected to a DACport.  I think it's due to a noisy USB connection.  If your mobo has a optical or coaxial SPDI/F output I would get an external DAC with a similar input such as the Modi optical or Modi Uber.  If you not you can spend the rest of your budget on a cheap soundcard with such an output.

 

[Kahbrohn]

Personally... I have a SB Z card in my PC. Won't break the bank and assuming the PSU in your PC is of good grade and properly grounded, you should not have any issues - unless... your motherboard is grounded to the chassis somewhere. This may be an issue then.
 
I recently grabbed some HD429 that were on liquidation, plugged them into the SB Z directly (thanks to long cord) and I must say that I am fairly happy. Just giving the HD429's a chance to break in a bit but is has been sounding better and better as time goes on. Your cans are broken in from what I understand so you should have instant gratification. I listen to music and game as well. Speaking of your cans, they are 300ohm and the SB Z is rated for 600ohm so I would assume they can run off of this card without an issue.
 
Can't say anything about an external DAC since I never used one. I do have an external amp (SMSL SA-50) to run my Bose 251's off of the SB Z. For the space that I have available for my rig, this set up is perfect.
 
I am no expert so this is just my 2 cents worth.

 

[yammy451]

Personally... I have a SB Z card in my PC. Won't break the bank and assuming the PSU in your PC is of good grade and properly grounded, you should not have any issues - unless... your motherboard is grounded to the chassis somewhere. This may be an issue then.

I recently grabbed some HD429 that were on liquidation, plugged them into the SB Z directly (thanks to long cord) and I must say that I am fairly happy. Just giving the HD429's a chance to break in a bit but is has been sounding better and better as time goes on. Your cans are broken in from what I understand so you should have instant gratification. I listen to music and game as well. Speaking of your cans, they are 300ohm and the SB Z is rated for 600ohm so I would assume they can run off of this card without an issue.

Can't say anything about an external DAC since I never used one. I do have an external amp (SMSL SA-50) to run my Bose 251's off of the SB Z. For the space that I have available for my rig, this set up is perfect.

I am no expert so this is just my 2 cents worth.

Power shouldn't be an issue, running a EVGA 1000W G2 pay powers everything I throw at it. Btw, what do you mean grounded the mobo to the chassis? Perhaps this might be where the static is coming from. Last night I figured out the static becomes louder when I play games that have a white screen somewhere.

The HD429s are gonna be sweet, I've used those before. When I plug my hd650s in there is no white noise.

I think I'll pick up the SB Z regardless, did you compare them to your on-board sound? After reading a bunch of articles on Sound cards vs DACs vs On-board most people are saying it's pointless to spend money on the first two because modern Realtek is the same thing and Doesnt cost anything. Even Tomshardware said not much could be said for a $2000.00 DAC vs On-board sound, they sound the same, it's just the DAC is feature rich.

 

[Kahbrohn]

Power shouldn't be an issue, running a EVGA 1000W G2 pay powers everything I throw at it. Btw, what do you mean grounded the mobo to the chassis? Perhaps this might be where the static is coming from. Last night I figured out the static becomes louder when I play games that have a white screen somewhere.

The HD429s are gonna be sweet, I've used those before. When I plug my hd650s in there is no white noise.

I think I'll pick up the SB Z regardless, did you compare them to your on-board sound? After reading a bunch of articles on Sound cards vs DACs vs On-board most people are saying it's pointless to spend money on the first two because modern Realtek is the same thing and Doesnt cost anything. Even Tomshardware said not much could be said for a $2000.00 DAC vs On-board sound, they sound the same, it's just the DAC is feature rich.

I agree that the power supply should not be an issue here but just to be on the safe side, you can take it to a local computer shop and have them test it -or- swap it out for a another PSU that is known to work perfectly and see. Try convincing a friend to help you out... 
 
Now, on the grounded MOBO issue, if you build your own computer rigs, what you normally do to install a motherboard inside the computer chassis (case) is to install some standoffs (usually made of bronze) onto the chassis. The motherboard is then placed on top of these standoffs and screwed onto these standoffs. Sometimes these standoffs can cause a ground (by rubbing against a metal part on the MOBO) that affects a computers performance (usually by boot-looping and such but other consequences can happen). A good way to test if this is the case is to uninstall everything from your computer case, and re-assemble outside of the case. Place the MOBO on a non-laminated cardboard box to insure it is isolated and on a non-conductive surface. Then try booting then playing your music where you heard the static/hissing. If you do not hear any unwanted noise, then it is a good chance you do have some sort of a grounding issue somewhere between the MOBO and the computer case.
 
The above is just a thought of mine (I am no expert but believe in looking at the basic stuff first) and easy to check up on and eliminate as a cause.
 
So far I am enjoying the HD429's. I know there is better out there but with what I am hearing right now from them, and my level of audio expertise, I am not sure I need to move up... but... as most men like to do, I can't deny my genetic inclination for better technology!
 
When you pick up the SB Z, ask what the return policy would be. Based on what you are told, then test out the sound card and compare to the on-board audio. Personally (and this just might be a placebo effect but hey, its there for me) I found the "dedicated" sound card to be better. Granted, not by much, but it was better. Besides, I am a firm believe in that a dedicated piece of hardware is always better than an on-board piece of hardware. It's just my way of looking at things. If you feel that you do not notice any real significant difference between the on-board audio and a dedicated sound card, then my honest and most humble opinion would be that you return the sound card and just enjoy (for the time being) the on-board audio output. It is after all by no means bad. Another thing I considered is the software that comes with a sound card. To me, it is better adapted to tweaking to my liking. I have seen the Realtek software and have not had as good a result tweaking it in comparison to a dedicated sound card. Also, the SB Z has customized drivers available for it if you get into that kind of thing.
 
I was recently going to get a DAC and was persuaded to stick with my SB Z (which happens to have a DAC in it already from what I read). I just did some housekeeping in my computer, re-seated the card onto the MOBO, replaced a couple of wires, cleaned out my external amp and I could not be happier (based on my level of expertise). Not extra additional (and unnecessary) money invested other than the new cans and speaker wires. The best part of what I just did is (A) I am certain I improved the sound quality and (B) I can always upgrade later on if I want to.
 
Audio is an expensive hobby as I have been learning about recently...

 

[yammy451]

Oh ok, I see what you mean by grounded. Yes, I'm completely sure it's grounded. Whilst I was building it I took several steps to make sure everything worked correctly. I've been building pc's for about 10 years so defintely understand your points.

Like I said, the static is only really ppresent during playing video games. Perhaps it's the gfx card?

I agree, I've always been able to tell the difference between on-board sound and a soundcard. I've never owned a DAC or external DAC/soundcard so I was hoping to see if anyone here had other suggestions to make the Yamaha HS5a sound even better. Perhaps I set my budget too low.

And yeh, audio is pricey. Probably why no one else has any recommendations. The budget might be too low...lol.

 

[cel4145]

Power shouldn't be an issue, running a EVGA 1000W G2 pay powers everything I throw at it. Btw, what do you mean grounded the mobo to the chassis? Perhaps this might be where the static is coming from. Last night I figured out the static becomes louder when I play games that have a white screen somewhere.

The HD429s are gonna be sweet, I've used those before. When I plug my hd650s in there is no white noise.

I think I'll pick up the SB Z regardless, did you compare them to your on-board sound? After reading a bunch of articles on Sound cards vs DACs vs On-board most people are saying it's pointless to spend money on the first two because modern Realtek is the same thing and Doesnt cost anything. Even Tomshardware said not much could be said for a $2000.00 DAC vs On-board sound, they sound the same, it's just the DAC is feature rich.

Did you investigate the potential ground loop issue? This could easily be the cause of your problem with the Yamahas. Also, check how you have run your audio cables.

Next, how do you have the gain structure set on your Yamahas? Did you set your computer volume to 100% and then adjust the Yamaha gain on the back of the speakers to the maximum volume you would listen to them? Or do you have the gain controls on the back of the Yamahas cranked a lot higher? That might help to optimize it as described.

Note that the Toms Hardware review that looked at the Realtek vs. more expensive amp/DACs didn't say they sounded the same, just that the differences were not that significant. And that (a) is a subjective opinion and (b) dependent on the implementation/build of the computer (as you have discovered due to the noise you have).

And you are right. Your EVGA G2 should not be the issue. Not because it's 1000w, but because it's a fairly well made gold+ certified PSU.

 

[yammy451]

The computer's volume is set to 80% and the volume on both speakers is in the middle. I was told to put pc volume high and speaker volume low.

As I said, funny how the static is significantly higher during silent game play, when there is a bright white screen static jumps or when there is no sound atm, when there is in game voice,music or action sequence it's non existent.

 

[cel4145]

The computer's volume is set to 80% and the volume on both speakers is in the middle. I was told to put pc volume high and speaker volume low.

That's probably OK. Some people turn the gain all the way up on the speakers, which could impact how much background noise is heard from their amps.

As I said, funny how the static is significantly higher during silent game play, when there is a bright white screen static jumps or when there is no sound atm, when there is in game voice,music or action sequence it's non existent.

I'm not expert on Windows sound configuration. However, if you mean the static is significantly audible during game play where there is not much sound, that's one thing. If you mean it's only present when the game is not actually outputting sound (e.g., map transition or during startup), then that might be a significant clue to solving your problem.

Have you experiment with Windows sound configuration shared vs. exclusive mode? Try exclusive and see what happens.

 

[Kahbrohn]

Did you investigate the potential ground loop issue? This could easily be the cause of your problem with the Yamahas. Also, check how you have run your audio cables.

Next, how do you have the gain structure set on your Yamahas? Did you set your computer volume to 100% and then adjust the Yamaha gain on the back of the speakers to the maximum volume you would listen to them? Or do you have the gain controls on the back of the Yamahas cranked a lot higher? That might help to optimize it as described.

Note that the Toms Hardware review that looked at the Realtek vs. more expensive amp/DACs didn't say they sounded the same, just that the differences were not that significant. And that (a) is a subjective opinion and (b) dependent on the implementation/build of the computer (as you have discovered due to the noise you have).

And you are right. Your EVGA G2 should not be the issue. Not because it's 1000w, but because it's a fairly well made gold+ certified PSU.

+1
 
In reading this I was reminded of a setting I played around with recently within the SB Z software settings (can't do this within Realtek I believe). I saw a setting to "invert" my speaker connections polarity  but from a software level. Even though (my hand over the fire this is true) my speaker wires were all connected correctly, red to red - black to black, when I inverted on a software level I experienced better audio from the speakers. I have a 2.0 setup and I instantly had much better centralized sound... almost as if I had a center speaker! I have read of some people finding that their amps internals are cross-wired and now I believe this may be true. What I am trying to get at is this... It may not be the arrow... It may be the Indian! Play around with settings and such and see what everything does. See if it improves or worsens audio. Than select what you like best. The SB Z has a fantastic "Scout" feature that does wonders while gaming (helps directional audio quite a bit).
 
I have my sound card and system volume at 100% out to the speakers and I control my volume from the external amp I have. I have read that this way you gain as much audio quality as you can from your sound card/system to the amp. I feel this to be true.
 
I have learned one big important lesson these past few weeks... hearing is believing. Don't take anyone's word as Gospel. Everyone listens differently be it because of their hardware, music tastes or even physical hearing capabilities and/or abilities! Listen for yourself and then do what you feel sounded best. You will never go wrong that way. Don't listen through anyone else's ears. Just yours.

 

[yammy451]

Excellent suggestion,for the time being my HS5s are hooked up via XLR to 3.5mm to the mobo jack.

I've not adjusted too much through Windoes, but after this post I will as soon as I get home. I don't usually use on-board sound as I typically use a soundcard, which is one of the reasons I was wondering external soundcard/DAC vs internal soundcard.