[Tsukuyomi]

My Dream "Summit-Fi" would probably be..
1. Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC
2. Hifiman Susvara
3. Sony Z1R
4. Meze Empyrian
5. Hifiman Arya (im buying this soon)

in that order also, i know there are more expensive and better headphones but to me thats what i'd get. i did consider Audeze for a while and Focal but for Audeze anyways, the variation in driver tones shows me their QC isnt the most consistent.

 

[NZtechfreak]

The best Audeze doesn't really play in the same territory as Susvara/Abyss, IMO. Having heard most of them (not tried 4z/MX/24) the only one I've liked is the 4, but not enough to lay down the cash. Have the Utopia, and they're superb, but I want that level of technical ability and planar bass, so it's Abyss/Susvara for me. Currently aiming for Abyss, but have yet to audition the Susvara, so we'll see.

 

[aminus]

My Dream "Summit-Fi" would probably be..
1. Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC
2. Hifiman Susvara
3. Sony Z1R
4. Meze Empyrian
5. Hifiman Arya (im buying this soon)

in that order also, i know there are more expensive and better headphones but to me thats what i'd get. i did consider Audeze for a while and Focal but for Audeze anyways, the variation in driver tones shows me their QC isnt the most consistent.

I have some interest in the Susvara but god that price is eyebleeding. Also unsure about the general midrange/treble tonality, though I hear the planar treble phenomena is less pronounced on it thanks to whatever stealth magnet system Hifiman are using. I strongly dislike the MDR-Z1R, which is quite ironic considering that the IER-Z1R is exactly what led me down this rabbithole of being unable to find a suitable headphone counterpart. Audeze’s extreme unit variance, rather dark downsloping signature and again, the planar treble phenomena, leave them out of consideration for me. The Utopia is not bad in being able to deliver midbass slam but that’s honestly all it’s really good at. Staging is very small, bordering on congested, subbass is lacking and the upper midrange emphasis is definitely noticeable enough to bother me.

 

[Tsukuyomi]

I have some interest in the Susvara but god that price is eyebleeding. Also unsure about the general midrange/treble tonality, though I hear the planar treble phenomena is less pronounced on it thanks to whatever stealth magnet system Hifiman are using. I strongly dislike the MDR-Z1R, which is quite ironic considering that the IER-Z1R is exactly what led me down this rabbithole of being unable to find a suitable headphone counterpart. Audeze’s extreme unit variance, rather dark downsloping signature and again, the planar treble phenomena, leave them out of consideration for me. The Utopia is not bad in being able to deliver midbass slam but that’s honestly all it’s really good at. Staging is very small, bordering on congested, subbass is lacking and the upper midrange emphasis is definitely noticeable enough to bother me.

I tried the LCD 4z, 3, X, 2c(classic), and i only liked the 4z and X. the others not so much. but im glad audeze is off my radar now.
The Susvara i tried at an audio show in feb, along side the Arya and Jade 2, 1kse and 1kv2 and i absolutely loved the Susvara, Jade 2 and Arya. I felt the 1kse and 1kv2 sounded almost identical and not worth even bothering. I feel either buy a step higher or look at something different in the planar game.
I'm getting the Arya because atm thats my budget for my temporary "summit-Fi"

I like sonys warm/bassy sound its good for pop/rock/modern casual music. I wouldnt use the Z1R in any way for critical listening.

 

[aminus]

I tried the LCD 4z, 3, X, 2c(classic), and i only liked the 4z and X. the others not so much. but im glad audeze is off my radar now.
The Susvara i tried at an audio show in feb, along side the Arya and Jade 2, 1kse and 1kv2 and i absolutely loved the Susvara, Jade 2 and Arya. I felt the 1kse and 1kv2 sounded almost identical and not worth even bothering. I feel either buy a step higher or look at something different in the planar game.
I'm getting the Arya because atm thats my budget for my temporary "summit-Fi"

I like sonys warm/bassy sound its good for pop/rock/modern casual music. I wouldnt use the Z1R in any way for critical listening.

I will definitely be trying the Susvara this November in Shanghai so I’m pretty eager to see how that goes down. I honestly somewhat hope something causes me to dislike it, largely because of the absolutely ridiculous price and the fact that I still don’t trust Hifiman’s QC and build quality. Handling a friend’s HE1K made me feel like looking at it the wrong way could cause the headband to dismantle itself at any moment. But I digress.

My issue with the Z1R is largely how flabby the bass response is in decay and how blunted the attack is. Combine this with excessive bleed into the lower midrange and everything sounds almost hilariously boomy. The 10khz peak is not particularly offensive to me but the lacking lower treble leaves quite a bit to be desired as well. Just a poorly designed headphone all around in my opinion, which I hate to say because I do love Sony.

 

[Youth]

I owned a HD800S at one point and simply couldn’t look past the midrange and treble tonality. On top of that there was definitely something to be desired from the technicalities.

I definitely agree with you about the midrange and treble hence why I mentioned EQ, but if you're dead set on not using that then I totally understand why you'd wanna exclude this headphone from your list. Best of luck in your search.

 

[aminus]

I definitely agree with you about the midrange and treble hence why I mentioned EQ, but if you're dead set on not using that then I totally understand why you'd wanna exclude this headphone from your list. Best of luck in your search.

My main issue with EQ is that it introduces resonances and various other issues into the sound signature of a transducer. On one hand, I know my bass preferences are somewhat unusual so I’m willing to compromise somewhat on that, but on the other, if I have to EQ everything then what’s the point of even putting in so much effort? Seems redundant and almost like I’m paying money to fix an wildly imperfect transducer. But that’s just my opinion on it. Thanks for the suggestion either way.

 

[slooploop]

Have you considered a Utopia? It’s not nearly as flabby as other dynamics and has a lot of tactile impact, probably in part because it’s not so warm like the Z1R or Empyrean.

 

[aminus]

Have you considered a Utopia? It’s not nearly as flabby as other dynamics and has a lot of tactile impact, probably in part because it’s not so warm like the Z1R or Empyrean.

I did mention the Utopia earlier, I do appreciate its midbass slam but the sub extension leaves something to be desired and I dislike its almost somewhat metallic upper midrange. And with the soundstaging, I’m not obsessed with a massive HD800 esque soundstage or anything like that but the Utopia’s imaging is simply not large enough for me. With the lower end Focals it entered congestion territory; the Utopia was not as bad in this regard but still not to my taste.

 

[slooploop]

I did mention the Utopia earlier, I do appreciate its midbass slam but the sub extension leaves something to be desired and I dislike its almost somewhat metallic upper midrange. And with the soundstaging, I’m not obsessed with a massive HD800 esque soundstage or anything like that but the Utopia’s imaging is simply not large enough for me. With the lower end Focals it entered congestion territory; the Utopia was not as bad in this regard but still not to my taste.

Ah I must have missed that, they do sound a little metallic. Other than that, the only headphone I can think of with similar impact is the Hifiman HE6, which I preferred to the Susvara, but it’s a little bright and metallic sounding itself.

 

[betula]

You have described the perfect headphone which unfortunately doesn't exist yet. Somewhere you'll have to make some compromise.

A well driven Abyss TC comes closest to your description. Anything else will lack at least one of your conditions. Electrostats won't give you the bass you described. Dynamic drivers won't give you the bass you described. All dynamic drivers lack the planar bass extension and they are not flat: more mid-bass than sub. That leaves you with planars. HE1000SE can be a bit bright, Empyrean is lovely but not the most 'microscopic' if you are after that last 5-10% of resolution. Most Audeze have a darkish, not that airy upper-mid/treble section. Perhaps you could give a go to the new LCD24. Apart from that your only chance is a well driven Abyss TC or Susvara, but they both need substantial amplification as well and that won't be cheap.

You need to make a small compromise or wait another 2-3 years for something new to come out which fits your description. That said I am completely satisfied with my Empyrean, but it is all about personal taste.

 

[aminus]

Ah I must have missed that, they do sound a little metallic. Other than that, the only headphone I can think of with similar impact is the Hifiman HE6, which I preferred to the Susvara, but it’s a little bright and metallic sounding itself.

The HE6 does slam, but the treble is just way too bright for me and it’s not excluded from having planar treble. I’ve heard it on pretty powerful amplification as well so I know it’s not due to improper amping, it’s just not my thing.

You have described the perfect headphone which unfortunately doesn't exist yet. Somewhere you'll have to make some compromise.

A well driven Abyss TC comes closest to your description. Anything else will lack at least one of your conditions. Electrostats won't give you the bass you described. Dynamic drivers won't give you the bass you described. All dynamic drivers lack the planar bass extension and they are not flat: more mid-bass than sub. That leaves you with planars. HE1000SE can be a bit bright, Empyrean is lovely but not the most 'microscopic' if you are after that last 5-10% of resolution. Most Audeze have a darkish, not that airy upper-mid/treble section. Perhaps you could give a go to the new LCD24. Apart from that your only chance is a well driven Abyss TC or Susvara, but they both need substantial amplification as well and that won't be cheap.

You need to make a small compromise or wait another 2-3 years for something new to come out which fits your description. That said I am completely satisfied with my Empyrean, but it is all about personal taste.

Indeed, I am asking for something extremely elusive. The other thing which I’m curious about and will likely hear with the Susvara this November is the Heddphone, though I hear that the AMT design is even more susceptible to that hazy planar treble I keep complaining about. We’ll have to see.

 

[slooploop]

The HE6 does slam, but the treble is just way too bright for me and it’s not excluded from having planar treble. I’ve heard it on pretty powerful amplification as well so I know it’s not due to improper amping, it’s just not my thing.

Indeed, I am asking for something extremely elusive. The other thing which I’m curious about and will likely hear with the Susvara this November is the Heddphone, though I hear that the AMT design is even more susceptible to that hazy planar treble I keep complaining about. We’ll have to see.

The HEDDphone looks interesting. The Susvara has some of that hazy treble quality which is a big reason I prefer the HE6 on big speaker amp (I haven’t heard a headphone amp do them justice), which has less of that. But really, this struggle is why I’ve given up on finding the perfect headphone. I’ve heard almost everything I’ve wanted to and it turns out I don’t like anything enough to buy it. Everything has two or three significant issues that make music less enjoyable to me knowing they’re that latent, so I have to train myself to not care as much and at that point, why am I spending so much money? I’m very interested in the Verite and SR1 but I haven’t gotten the chance to hear either.

 

[aminus]

The HEDDphone looks interesting. The Susvara has some of that hazy treble quality which is a big reason I prefer the HE6 on big speaker amp (I haven’t heard a headphone amp do them justice), which has less of that. But really, this struggle is why I’ve given up on finding the perfect headphone. I’ve heard almost everything I’ve wanted to and it turns out I don’t like anything enough to buy it. Everything has two or three significant issues that make music less enjoyable to me knowing they’re that latent, so I have to train myself to not care as much and at that point, why am I spending so much money? I’m very interested in the Verite and SR1 but I haven’t gotten the chance to hear either.

That’s exactly how I feel about it, I know how exactly what I want sounds in my head (and have a sort of target model of it in the form of the IER-Z1R) but I genuinely cannot find something that can give me that level of performance in an over ear package. And when we’re talking about headphones that command $4000 price tags it gets ridiculous that the flaws are so obvious. I don’t know if it’s a comment on the state of the headphone industry or me simply having unrealistic standards (which I tend to do have, a lot).

 

[slooploop]

That’s exactly how I feel about it, I know how exactly what I want sounds in my head (and have a sort of target model of it in the form of the IER-Z1R) but I genuinely cannot find something that can give me that level of performance in an over ear package. And when we’re talking about headphones that command $4000 price tags it gets ridiculous that the flaws are so obvious. I don’t know if it’s a comment on the state of the headphone industry or me simply having unrealistic standards (which I tend to do have, a lot).

I think that’s fair; I really, really want to hear the IER-Z1R because I’ve heard so many good things about it and I’d take the EX1000 over the limited >$1000 IEMs I’ve heard. But as far as over ear headphones go, it’s so disappointing to hear systems cost more than a new car still sound so awful to me. I’ve turned to speakers because the annoyances are less obvious and I’m lucky enough to be able to use them and I’m exponentially happier with my incredibly average sounding speakers than my old multi-thousand dollar SR-007 system.