[DemonicLemming]

Noob trying to figure a few things out here...

After browsing a few pages of the huge 780 thread, it seems like they really benefit from a recable. Now, I've seen references to both ALO and S2 Audio mods. Checked S2's site, and couldn't find anything other than amp modification. Have no idea what the ALO deal involves.

Now, questions. Is it worth it for a noob to bother with recabling? I've very picky about music sounding good (as I imagine maybe a few other people on here are), but I don't want to spend twice the price on cabling than what the headphones cost in the first place when I have yet to buy an amp. Also, in my experience (car and home audio), cables don't make any difference whatsoever. Speaker cable is speaker cable (oxygen-free isn't oxygen-free once you cut the wiring...), RCAs are the same with the exception of shielding and twisting methods. Seems like headphones are different, although I still call into question the point of using "uber materials" when the end is still going into a cheap metal port....anyway, any information, as far as who to contact or the price of an ALO or S2 recable? Also, I know 1/4" plugs are popular, but I want to stick with the small 3.5mm plug, or at least a threaded one, so I can use the headphones off computer soundcards and portable amps.

Planned setup is a set of 780s, and a Travagan White amp. Are cables more important than the amp? Less?

 

[FallenAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemonicLemming /img/forum/go_quote.gif Noob trying to figure a few things out here... After browsing a few pages of the huge 780 thread, it seems like they really benefit from a recable. Now, I've seen references to both ALO and S2 Audio mods. Checked S2's site, and couldn't find anything other than amp modification. Have no idea what the ALO deal involves. Now, questions. Is it worth it for a noob to bother with recabling? I've very picky about music sounding good (as I imagine maybe a few other people on here are), but I don't want to spend twice the price on cabling than what the headphones cost in the first place when I have yet to buy an amp. Also, in my experience (car and home audio), cables don't make any difference whatsoever. Speaker cable is speaker cable (oxygen-free isn't oxygen-free once you cut the wiring...), RCAs are the same with the exception of shielding and twisting methods. Seems like headphones are different, although I still call into question the point of using "uber materials" when the end is still going into a cheap metal port....anyway, any information, as far as who to contact or the price of an ALO or S2 recable? Also, I know 1/4" plugs are popular, but I want to stick with the small 3.5mm plug, or at least a threaded one, so I can use the headphones off computer soundcards and portable amps. Planned setup is a set of 780s, and a Travagan White amp. Are cables more important than the amp? Less?

In my experience cables make quite a difference (I've owned almost every cable for Sennheiser HD600/HD650 by other manufacturers and make quite a few different IC that I can tell a very prominent difference between my interconnects).

I did hear that the 780 benefit from recabling quite a bit, it's just whether I would ever go with a cable that costs 2x more than the headphones, that's another story, perhaps a cheaper yet still high quality cabling option is in order

 

[Morph201]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemonicLemming /img/forum/go_quote.gif Noob trying to figure a few things out here... After browsing a few pages of the huge 780 thread, it seems like they really benefit from a recable. Now, I've seen references to both ALO and S2 Audio mods. Checked S2's site, and couldn't find anything other than amp modification. Have no idea what the ALO deal involves. Now, questions. Is it worth it for a noob to bother with recabling? I've very picky about music sounding good (as I imagine maybe a few other people on here are), but I don't want to spend twice the price on cabling than what the headphones cost in the first place when I have yet to buy an amp. Also, in my experience (car and home audio), cables don't make any difference whatsoever. Speaker cable is speaker cable (oxygen-free isn't oxygen-free once you cut the wiring...), RCAs are the same with the exception of shielding and twisting methods. Seems like headphones are different, although I still call into question the point of using "uber materials" when the end is still going into a cheap metal port....anyway, any information, as far as who to contact or the price of an ALO or S2 recable? Also, I know 1/4" plugs are popular, but I want to stick with the small 3.5mm plug, or at least a threaded one, so I can use the headphones off computer soundcards and portable amps. Planned setup is a set of 780s, and a Travagan White amp. Are cables more important than the amp? Less?

Keep in mind that the ALO job is more than a "recable", it also calls for removal of the diode board and placing dampening material in throughout the can, to improve harmonics. Besides if you decide to replace the headphones, and want to use ALO's service again, you could reuse the cable (HD650,Grado...). So you can also view it as an investment in a good cable that will be reused. Now as to whether cables make a difference or not, that's up to you to decide, but you have to look at the whole picture how it all fits together and not just the "cable" itself as making the difference.

 

[DemonicLemming]

Are there any places, or members who recable, where it doesn't cost so much?

Just again coming from what I'm used to, wiring that costs twice what the entire driver setup does is a bit absurd, at least to me.

 

[Morph201]

There are cheaper options (Cardas, S² Audio, DIY even). I'm not trying to defend one maker, but no one seems to be calling out Stefan AudioArt or Nordost, etc.. when the prices of their cables is also MORE some people's equipment. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes, it's more or less for a niche market, whether absurd to you or not... You have many other options for recabling.

Now as far as your question regarding amp or cabling being more important... Let's start off with what's your source? For the most part, in an ideal setup, the cables\amp should be as transparent as possible, and get out of the way of your source.

 

[CountChoculaBot]

S2 recabling (you have to email them) is only about $100 shipped for a recable. Skylab said he'd prefer S2 for the price, since it wasn't much worse than the ALO.

Also, for an amp, I'd suggest you go tubes. IMO the 780's could benefit from a bit of added warmth and darkness.

 

[EYEdROP]

To me, cables make a difference. I dont have any expierience with re-cabling headphones. But I can hear a difference when I hook up regular wires vs. monster gold cables on my klipsch/yamaha stereo system. The gold wires have less distortion and are overall clearer sounding. With lower quality systems, it dosent really matter because the speakers cant reproduce sound worth crap anyway (That includes alot of car systems). The reason the most expensive $1000 phones sound the best is simply because of quality of materials. Most headphone designs are very similar. But its the quality of materials which makes all the little difference.

 

[DemonicLemming]

I'm going to leave off on the cable difference, as it's a very, very touchy subject and I don't want to get anything going here; I'll just say that, until proven otherwise to me, I'll stick with the side that says cables are much less important than the drivers and the amp/source.

I've personally made stereo RCA cables out of about $10 worth of parts that sounded, to me, just as good as some of the $200-300 "uber brand" wires out there, but that's all subjective. Again, to my sensibilities, it seems a bit inane (and no offense to anyone who thinks otherwise, this is just my personal opinion) to spend hundreds on cables when it's getting plugged into a cheap metal port. It can only sound as good as the cheapest link.

I have to leave off on the car systems too....some sound extremely good, and as stated, it's all about quality of materials used, and the install. Goals in car audio are really completely different though, so I guess it is a bad comparison.

Anyway, when I have a few extra dollars, I'll probably send my 780s in to S2 Audio to see what happens. Being as I'm not expecting any change whatsoever, I might be pleasantly surprised, or I might get what I expect. Either way, it's an experiment, and I love experiments.

As far as the source, it'll be a Travagan white amp (like the small size because it can go to work with me) running USB DAC from a computer most of the time. When I travel (not infrequently, but not every week), it'll be for the moment unamped and from a Creative Zen 4gb. Not the super rig some people have on here, but I figure at an airport or in an airplane, there's no reason to strive for the very best sound possible. But, for the most part, Travagan's white running USB DAC. Looked at some other stuff like the iBasso D1 and D2, and a few others, but I think I'm going with the white. Meets my needs, and my budget.

 

[warrior05]

At the risk of being perceived as just someone who is trying to drum up business (which I can't do in this kind of thread since I'm an MOT), I will say this:

I have two HFI-780s in house. One has about 10 hours on them, the other 200+. The one with 200+ hours is much smoother sounding especially in regards to the highs. In stock form, I am one who feels that the highs on the 780s are just too harsh. I first recabled the younger (10 hours) 780 and the difference is quite remarkable doing before and after side-by-side comparisons (signal split from the same amp and source). Not all headphones reap benefits from recabling but it is quite obvious that the Ultrasones do. It made the 10 hour 780 sound much more like the 200+. Still room for improvement but I'll theorize that it is the young driver that needs more time to settle in.

YMMV of course and I offer no guarantees.

 

[souperman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemonicLemming /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm going to leave off on the cable difference, as it's a very, very touchy subject and I don't want to get anything going here; I'll just say that, until proven otherwise to me, I'll stick with the side that says cables are much less important than the drivers and the amp/source. I've personally made stereo RCA cables out of about $10 worth of parts that sounded, to me, just as good as some of the $200-300 "uber brand" wires out there, but that's all subjective. Again, to my sensibilities, it seems a bit inane (and no offense to anyone who thinks otherwise, this is just my personal opinion) to spend hundreds on cables when it's getting plugged into a cheap metal port. It can only sound as good as the cheapest link. I have to leave off on the car systems too....some sound extremely good, and as stated, it's all about quality of materials used, and the install. Goals in car audio are really completely different though, so I guess it is a bad comparison. Anyway, when I have a few extra dollars, I'll probably send my 780s in to S2 Audio to see what happens. Being as I'm not expecting any change whatsoever, I might be pleasantly surprised, or I might get what I expect. Either way, it's an experiment, and I love experiments. As far as the source, it'll be a Travagan white amp (like the small size because it can go to work with me) running USB DAC from a computer most of the time. When I travel (not infrequently, but not every week), it'll be for the moment unamped and from a Creative Zen 4gb. Not the super rig some people have on here, but I figure at an airport or in an airplane, there's no reason to strive for the very best sound possible. But, for the most part, Travagan's white running USB DAC. Looked at some other stuff like the iBasso D1 and D2, and a few others, but I think I'm going with the white. Meets my needs, and my budget.

I'm just wondering why you're asking about recabling if you don't believe in it already? I am in the same camp as you, but I got a recable because stock is horribly built and has crappy internal wiring.

 

[DemonicLemming]

Quote:

Originally Posted by souperman /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm just wondering why you're asking about recabling if you don't believe in it already? I am in the same camp as you, but I got a recable because stock is horribly built and has crappy internal wiring.

Primarily because, as all my experience has been with home and car equipment, there's a very large scalar difference between those enviroments and end goals, and the end goal of headphones. I know, through personal experience, that (again, my opinion) $500 HT cables sound the same as $20 cables. Yes, the really cheap generic stuff can sound bad, but once you get into decent materials parts, the sound is all the same.

However, since I have absolutely no experience in headphones (other than occasionally buying the cheap set) and many, many people on here advocate recabling as an important thing, I figured I might as well ask, just to see what kind of responses I get. I know comparing my car audio experience with headphones would be like trying to use knowledge about top fuel cars to build a NASCAR vehicle - they're similar, but only in a very basic way. Something that might be an absolute law in one might be a wildly varying thing in the other.

warrior05 - interesting point. I can't justify spending twice the cost of the headphones on a recable, especially as this'll be my first good set of phones and I'm sure I'll take a bit to get used to them, but I wouldn't mind spending some money just to see what happens, and I do realize that, especially with sound, everything is subjective and what might seem a huge difference to one person might be unpercievable to another. I'm always up for trying new things though, so once I get a little time on the 780s (to burn in, and to make a judgment on how much the recable changed thing), I'll send them out.

I have to find a set of 780s first though, and from what I've read, they seem to be in short supply. :x